Stormwall Questions and Brainstorming

[iksander]

Alright. This is just a small questionnaire to see how my fellow Cygnar players are handling the Stormwall and just getting the general tempo of how we are utilizing the beast.

1) How are you running your Stormwall? The kit of Mechanics and Journymen for basic buff and repairs? Running it naked, sans any support but caster? Are you adding anything new to your lists?

2) How are you protecting it? Are you letting your enemy take the swing first and tanking the hits? Running dedicated melee Screening models? Lolzing about with the Haleys?

3) What gives you the this sucks vibe to face with Stormwall? Has your meta bent towards utilizing backlash casters to gib any caster that is Captain Haley? Are you being destroyed by buffed Bronzebacks? Did the Cryx prime casters make their big reappearance to say screw your armor, my army has an effective plus 5 to damage before banes? Is Ossyan and MHSF make your day miserable?

To answer the question personally.

1) I find myself using just the basic journeyman buff, generally no Mechanics. Swordknights, Stormsmiths, and Ragman have seen a pretty big spike in play. Smiths were one point filler, but given the sexiness of pods, they've made a return that I'll occasionally ditch other models for more smiths. Swordknights, I use as my Stormwall speedbump. Basically they get to be in front of my Wall, to protect if from beast charges, etc... (Yeah its not as a good of a speed block as Boomhowlers, but what is?) Now I'm usually a Steelhead guy because I feel that the reach and lack of need to clump for Arm makes for better space control. Cause hell 3 living steelheads, control melee space as well as 6 Swordknights utilizing the buddy system. But with the Stormwall, I'm looking for pure roadblock and Arm 16/19 is better than Arm 13. The other reason I've brought back the Swordknights ties in with Ragman. Darkshroud on a model with a Cd for a base and 2 inch reach is sexy. Adding effective pow 12 weaponmasters as my screeners, to make it so that jacks or beasts, that make it to the stormwall and fail to get the kill are boned and my stormwall just continues to derp around pumping out shots, super sexy.

2) Protecting as stated with swordknight meat shield. I probably baby the jack way to much, but eh, its 19 points.

3) Nothing has gotten me super unnerved, although sniped Gorman with Dougal giving rerolls for deviation with Blackoil is pretty hilarious. Bad but hilarious.

[Soundsofascience]

In lower point games I'll try to threaten their caster or scenario with the big guns, and when their main threat to the stormwall is reasonably close, I'll turn my attention and movement shenanigans to taking it down. Eg. Hunter slamming a warp wolf stalker waiting to be primal'd into walking/charge range of ye stormwall.

Once their best answer to the big boy is off the table, most opponents tend to lose their nerve.

[sleet01]

#3 has been pDenny + Deathjack. It's really all they need.

[dunce002917]

Working on the Sword Knight meat shield, since the Stormwall is Ht 5", does it have LOS to enemies in front of the Sword Knights? (outside melee range of course).

If not, I'll have to add the UA to get Ranked Attacks.

[sleet01]

You're thinking of the Precursor Knights; the SKs' unit attachment just grants Precision Strike, Practiced Maneuvers, and the Drive. But at any rate Colossals do not get to see over small-based models by dint of their size; our troops block a Storm Wall's LOS to other small-based models just as well as they block a smaller warjack's. If you want to see through your troops the PKs + UA, or Storm Guard, or Long Gunners (guffaw), or Forge Guard with Murdoch for the Ranked Attack. Siege's Foxhole spell, and Dug In on Trenchers / units with Murdoch are also options.

[TKaz84]

I have a feeling that I'll be running eEiryss with my Stormwall more often than not as an upkeep removal tool if nothing else.

[dunce002917]

thanks @sleet01

yeah, I was thinking of Precursor Knights... Shield Wall, Ranke Attacks plus can't be targeted by spells.. so no stupid Cryxian spells like parasite or upkeep spells (blessed mace would take care of that).

another example, Trenchers in formation in front of Stormwall. They throw smoke bombs giving them concealment. Do my enemies now have LOS to Stormwall since he doesn't benefit from cloud/concealment effects?

[sleet01]

Yes. (10 chars)

[Da-Rock]

I have played with at least half of our Casters with the Stormwall in one configuration or the other:

1) How are you running your Stormwall? The kit of Mechanics and Journymen for basic buff and repairs? Running it naked, sans any support but caster? Are you adding anything new to your lists?

Answer: as always lists depend on Caster, but I don't use mechaniks except in eHaley's NQ 37 Tier. Jr is almost always in there even with pHaley as she needs all the Focus she can spare after casting TB.

2) How are you protecting it? Are you letting your enemy take the swing first and tanking the hits? Running dedicated melee Screening models? Lolzing about with the Haleys?

Answer: with the Haley's its light protection. I have found Precursor Knights very nice with eStryker for both protection, but also for massive damage on a charge and their mini feat while Positive Charge is on a jack etc. I use the Pods to block charge lanes for Beasts and Jacks while Covering Fire Templates and infantry or even solos stop the rest. (Darius' Halfjacks aren't too bad at Def 14 sitting just outside of Stormwall's base).

3) What gives you the this sucks vibe to face with Stormwall? Has your meta bent towards utilizing backlash casters to gib any caster that is Captain Haley? Are you being destroyed by buffed Bronzebacks? Did the Cryx prime casters make their big reappearance to say screw your armor, my army has an effective plus 5 to damage before banes? Is Ossyan and MHSF make your day miserable?

Answer: I know the primary, "aaah man this sucks" is from not having enough in your list to kill it. Sending a single heavy has a high "Bad dice" result then two etc. I think Debuffs will be important as will using less infantry and more big guys. I think this is what PP wanted anyways.

[PG_Gannon]

I'm in the process of getting mine built and painted, so I've no experience to add here. I did want to post and say thanks to those that have added something, it's helped me a lot so far, and even given me a few ideas. Keep it up guys!

[Soda Breeze]

1. Arlan + Junior usually makes my lists with Stormwall. I don't take the little guys because I don't play casters who benefit from Triangulation or the strikes (eNemo, N3mo) and my point costs are tight.

2. I'm protecting it with distance when playing eHaley or pCaine or denial when I used pHaley. Shield's up always, and usually Boomies in the front to eat the charge.

3. Sniped Gorman w/ new Merc caster/Magnus is always a problem, but Cygnar's Cygnar so he's first to go. Beast-heavy armies are always a problem, because they can afford to waste a single beast's death and keep two in the wings to mulch the big guy. Not too worried about Skorne when playing eHaley (who works the best with the thing IMO out of all our casters).

And for kicks, I'll throw in my personal caster experiences as 4.

4. eHaley makes this something broken. The feat turn, the bond, TA, TK, Time Bomb - her whole kit is suited to reel this sucker up, let him rip, and give him a turn to rip up stuff again. I've lost my past 2 games only because of errors on my part, one time because I forgot to scoot the darn thing up and was .5 inches out of range with the chain guns for a Kiss'd, TK'd around, 3-Big Gun-shot tapped warlock who had 1 fury remaining. Once I learn how to make the most of eHaley's feat turn and target prioritize better, I feel the list I play will steamroll almost everything.

pHaley doesn't work for it. It's too much that she needs to invest in to benefit from. TB is 4, at the most you're camping 4 to stop upkeeps. If you cast a 2-point spell, or upkeep AS, you're down some more already, and if you're not playing Haley up you're not getting the most from TB. Her feat turn is a multiplier as well - putting 19 points into 1 extra gun shot or melee attack on something whose melee range is surprisingly limited (outside of eHaley/Kraye) isn't getting the bang for your buck pHaley wants.

[dunce002917]

Yes. (10 chars)

yikes! I guess trenchers will do nothing for the Stormwall... I guess they'll continue to collect dust at least until they get errata'd

I just thought of another combo with Stormwall and the Sword Knights.

Since the Sword Knights have Flank with a warjack, anything that survives the Stormwall's melee attack (sweep) would be PWNED by the Sword Knight's +2 attack roll and extra die on damage. So with Stormwall's 2" melee range and as long as the Sword Knights are within charging range... it would be a hack and slash moment (now, imagine that with Conny's Crusader's call and Transference).

[Da-Rock]

pHaley doesn't work for it. It's too much that she needs to invest in to benefit from. TB is 4, at the most you're camping 4 to stop upkeeps. If you cast a 2-point spell, or upkeep AS, you're down some more already, and if you're not playing Haley up you're not getting the most from TB. Her feat turn is a multiplier as well - putting 19 points into 1 extra gun shot or melee attack on something whose melee range is surprisingly limited (outside of eHaley/Kraye) isn't getting the bang for your buck pHaley wants.

I may be reading this wrong, but are you saying the Stormwall doesn't work well with pHaley? If you are saying that you may want to go over that again.........

If I were to pick my absolute best caster with the Stormwall = pHaley

My 2nd favorite is Darius followed by eStryker and then eHaley - (this is of course all based on opinion for my playstyle). eHaley is good, but relies on working too many angles to get the results you need. pHaley would love having Deceleration and TK of course, but she does three big things =

1. TB - 16" range no Charge, run
2. Counter Spell anything within 3" of her
3. Double shot or attack to a shooty faction

I just played several pHaley and eHaley lists - (eHaley NQ 37 tier) and pHaley was more devastating by far, (even though it was pretty sweet on eHaley's Feat turn against two Warbeasts without Reach :-)

Now let me give you sneak peak into a partial pHaley list, (they are many that can be built) -

Stormwall
x2 Storm Strider
Alexia and the Risen or Precursor Knights
Gun Mages or Black 13th

* TB to slow and stop opponent to your 3 120mm base models - (move Stormwall up and angle it slightly. Do the same with Storm Strider, now pHaley moves up and fits between the two only losing an inch or two for TB and is still blocked by 120mm base).

* Feat turn = 6 (d3 Electro Leaps) POW 15 Electrical shots, 3 POW 15 cannon shots, 14 Gun Mage shots/7 from B13th. Stormwall dropping a Pod in the middle of High Def infantry like Winterguard was a thing of beauty when Striders shot the Pod 3 times each and I rolled 13 jumps!

* Risen with Rhupert giving Tough and getting new recruits is a sweet blockade to stop the opponent who can't charge Big 3! Precursors are also great as the are Shield Wall 18, can't be targeted by spells and most important = Ranked attacks

* Deadeye on Gunmages or anything else that wants to fire accurately

* Anti Spell keeps a lot safe as your Big 3 will most likely all be within 3" (depending on placement and if playing scenario etc)

[dunce002917]

@Da-Rock dude, that is a scary list...

[Calibre]

@Da-Rock, how would your Darius list look? I take it you take Alexia in it? I'm a bit concerned about Collosal-blocks, things like Gorman, Light jacks/beast Weapon Locks and Pistol Wraiths off the top of my head. There are currently huge rage on the forums of how to destroy or tarpit a Collosal. Currently I'm thinking of taking Sword Knights as my meat shield to protect my Stormwall from things like the Behemoth, Gladiators and such. with he added ability to hit back with flank on anything engaging them. Another thing I'm struggling with is I need some form of range magical attack, Darius simply will not cut it on his own his focus is far to valuable and he has a very short range, I'm leaning towards a Adept Gun Mage but maybe there's a better solution.

[Da-Rock]

@Da-Rock, how would your Darius list look? I take it you take Alexia in it? I'm a bit concerned about Collosal-blocks, things like Gorman, Light jacks/beast Weapon Locks and Pistol Wraiths off the top of my head. There are currently huge rage on the forums of how to destroy or tarpit a Collosal. Currently I'm thinking of taking Sword Knights as my meat shield to protect my Stormwall from things like the Behemoth, Gladiators and such. with he added ability to hit back with flank on anything engaging them. Another thing I'm struggling with is I need some form of range magical attack, Darius simply will not cut it on his own his focus is far to valuable and he has a very short range, I'm leaning towards a Adept Gun Mage but maybe there's a better solution.

This is what I run:

Darius
Stormwall
x2 Storm Striders
x2 Hammersmiths
Squire

Stormwall is centered with a Strider on each side while a Hammersmith is B2B with the Stormwall on each side too. Fortify on Stormwall.

I try to make sure my opponent goes first and then move either as much as I can if I have Leaps available 15" out or I move just enough to make it devastating the next turn.

How Darius deals with issues - (well as best as anyone can against different opponents who play different styles etc):

Bronzebacks, Mulgs and any hardcore Heavies =
A. Block charge lanes with Pods and Halfjacks, (more on half jacks later).
B. x2 Hammersmiths go play with Full throttled Beat back and Chain Attack Slams
C. Crane a Strider out in front of Colossal, (depending on positioning of course).

Infantry =
A. Drop Pod + x4 d3 Leaps
B. Halfjack mines - AOE 4" Pow 14
C. x2 Hammersmiths
D. Cover Fire templates

Darius comes down to a few things for the opponent - If he wants to kill the Stormwall he has to do it in one turn, which usually means your x2 Hammersmiths and x2 Striders will be alive for retaliation plus if they fail to kill anything besides the Striders, Darius' feat heals all and then you scrap the things that are now in range and that failed to kill you.

Its not perfect and requires you to use things people don't think much of = Halfjacks

Halfjacks are not great at anything but getting in the way and repairing jacks. Having said that, here is how I use them =

Move them out in front of Stormwall just enough so that the do two things....... block charge lanes and stop tramples because the opponent can't end his movement on top of them. They don't do much else, but even a Bronzeback will need help from other things to get them out of the way and they are 14/14s (hard to kill sometimes).

What my list misses =
Jr
Infantry tarpit/screen
Jr
Jr
Black 13th
Jr
Stormsmiths


Scenarios will be hard as at best you would have one or two Striders that could hold an objective near you while Darius & Co. went after others. In straight up play it is extremely hard to kill

[dunce002917]

interesting ideas Da-Rock

[sleet01]

@Da-rock: what if you dropped one Strider for Aiyanna & Holt, Junior, and a Storm Tower? A little extra damage capability, some magic weapon love, more ARM for the remaining Strider or something, and only a 25% reduction in e-leaps? Huh? Huh?

[Da-Rock]

Yeah, that would work since the Storm Tower could block LOS to Darius and he can crane it and allow it to shoot etc. I don't have a lot of damage level issues and we do not currently have any Cryx players or much of anything Incorporeal so A&H may not be needed - could go Black 13th with that 4 points. 2pts, hmm, oh....maybe a Stormsmith and Reinholdt? (Disruption and being Slammed from a Chain Attack is nice!)

[sleet01]

Super-fun: hit a warjack with Arcantrik Bolt to make it Stationary, knock it down with a slam, then disrupt it with a Stormsmith or Lightning Pod.

[Calibre]

I like the Storm Strider idea but personally I'm not a big fan of it, it just dies to quickly for a model that big, and after some thought I came up with this:
Captain E. Dominic Darius (*5pts)
* Stormwall (19pts)
* Thunderhead (12pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team (4pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Sword Knights (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
Ogrun Bokur (3pts)
Stormsmith Stormcaller (1pts)
Stormsmith Stormcaller (1pts)

This list might seem odd but it can be really powerful, the Sword Knights meat shield 2" thick the Stormwall as it advances. In front of the knights, Lady Aiyana chucks out kiss as its a round an not a turn affect. Bot runs up past Aiyana to get Mage Storm in the rear by Ryaan. Stormwall lays this cover fire to left and right to put up a nice big no go zone. Aiyana is covered by cloud affect so no charges or shots on her...hopefully, and then Thunderhead and Stormcallers can go flank Hunting with Darius' Focus, Stormcallers can free up Thunderhead for pulse against troops and if you survive a heavy.. which should be aimed at your Stormwall you can just hopefully throw him to the Stormwall and knights for the mop up. Also be aware that the kiss unit will suffer pow 14 if they dare to venture into your covering fire templates and pow 16 from mines, which means that we can even now down heavy infantry. I decided to play Bokur for four reasons, one he's a durable roadblock if you need it, he can dish out high powered swing if you need to finish something off or slam it away, he can take a bullet for the Stormwall or Darius especially if eEiryss, Gorman or Pistol Wraiths are running around the battlefield and he can save Darius from ranged assassination.

[knight_actual]

I think that eStryker has one of the best synergies with the storm wall because of the bond and the availability of positive charge.

With the bond's 4 focus the guns can fire at full effectiveness from the word go. When the action gets more personal, 6x MAT 8 PS 22 swings that also forms a 11" diameter positive charge bubble is no joke.

Finally, eStryker REALLY appreciates a mobile frontline immovable bunker.