eSorscha...I *will* wreck your Colossal

[The Armchair Warrior]

I'm getting ready for a 2 list 50 pt Sr2012 tournament (death clock, divide and conquer, not sure of the other caster). I'm thinking I'll field eSorscha, with an eye towards being able to knock out an enemy colossal on the feat turn. I'd appreciate your thoughts...


eSorscha (6)
*Beast 11
*Sylys 2
WGDS 10
MoW DC 9
MoW DC 9
Arianna and Holt 4
Great Bears 5
Ragman 2

Last 6 points...Help round out the list
Option 1 - Doomreavers 6
Option 2 - Kayazy Assassins x2 6
Option 3 - 2 rockets and MOW Drahkun wo Dismount 6

The WGDS run turn 1 and serve as combination meat shield and anti infantry, potentially with shatterstorm upkept. Thereafter, they're advancing with IF and bob and weave, doing their deathstar thing.

Advance the MOW and GBs together along with a boundless charging Beast (so they all arrive together more or less), with A&H and Ragman as support. Move Shatterstorm to one of the MOW units primarily for the RFP benefits. As soon as they're in charge range of enemy heavies, feat with anti ARM support.

Thoughts?

[The Armchair Warrior]

Still wondering what people think of this as a second list to be ready for either a storm wall-laden or jack/beast heavy opponent...

Thanks.

[The Buoyancy of Water]

I'd go with Saxon and a drakhun myself. Saxon for the obvious pathfinder help while the drakhun will be brutal on feat turn, and is a generally great model anyway

Cheers,
Dave

EDIT: Oh, and consider Shatterstorm for Beast Great fun for threshers, and the POW of the AoEs can't hurt him.

[mcpolle]

Are there not just 4 pts left?? Or am I adding it up wrong?? Also are you not missing Joe??? to help out the WGDS??
Loving the Drakhun, and DR are great if for nothing else making your opponent busy for a turn :-)

Am loving eSorsha... Boundless charge for the win, Do you really need Sylyss?? You are only upkeeping IF every turn, and are not gonna be casting too many freezing grasps,, how about a war dog, ???

Polle

[The Armchair Warrior]

You're indeed correct that I miscounted the point total...in my head, I wasn't adding in 2 points for Ragman. With 4 points left, the MOW Drakhun seems like a natural fit...although I'm tempted to swap out Sylis for the Wardog and put in Fenris for flanking cavalry. A huge chunk of this list is Fearless (the MOW, Great Bears, WGDS with Joe's Courage of our Forefathers), so it's a natural fit. You lose the ability to boost with Boundless Charge, but I'm digging the idea of the extra Fellblade on the feat turn with both A&H and Ragman in play.

eSorscha (6)
*Beast 11
*Sylys 2
WGDS 10 (WGI max 6, O&S 2, Joe 2)
MoW DC 9
MoW DC 9
Arianna and Holt 4
Great Bears 5
Ragman 2
MOW Drakhun w/o Dismount 4

[The Buoyancy of Water]

I'd stick with Sylys myself. He makes the stationary spell (name escapes me at the moment...) actually viable, because you can keep enough focus to cyclone to safety after casting it. Boundless charge on the drakhun would be funny

Cheers,
Dave

[quotemyname]

Hate to nay say, but I don't think the WGIDS is a good unit to use against the Storm wall at all. They have obvious synergy with eSorcha which is great, but consider the fact that if you run turn one, that stormwall is likely dropping a pod within their midst, killing 1-2 (or making them Knocked Down from Tough). One to Two stormsmiths then walks up and has a damn good chance at waxing 3-5 more of the WGI. (assuming each storm smith hits ~2 models) They'll be half dead turn 2 before they know what hit them. Not to mention electro leap from the sweep attacks, or god forbid anything else he brought.

I'd say save the points and run something with heavier armor. Also, if Cygnar is bringing the storm wall, They're probably bringing Junior for Arcane Shield regardless of Warcaster. That means you're looking at ARM 22-23 (iirc) on that thing. Sorcha's feat is great, but only if your models can reliably punch through armor. Fighting the Storm Strider all too frequently has taught me that even The Great Bears and Demo Corps have trouble making that happen. You really want to be bringing down that Storm Strider? My money is on pButcher instead.

[The Buoyancy of Water]

Just noticed as well: no eEiryss! If this list is for destroying colossals, you want to be able to take off ARM buffs...

[mostholycerebus]

m loving eSorsha... Boundless charge for the win, Do you really need Sylyss?? You are only upkeeping IF every turn, and are not gonna be casting too many freezing grasps,,

Why not? With extra range, and an extra die, I throw this all the time. It's a game changing spell that I never had a chance to use before bringing Sylys, now I love it.

[The Armchair Warrior]

Hate to nay say, but I don't think the WGIDS is a good unit to use against the Storm wall at all. They have obvious synergy with eSorcha which is great, but consider the fact that if you run turn one, that stormwall is likely dropping a pod within their midst, killing 1-2 (or making them Knocked Down from Tough). One to Two stormsmiths then walks up and has a damn good chance at waxing 3-5 more of the WGI. (assuming each storm smith hits ~2 models) They'll be half dead turn 2 before they know what hit them. Not to mention electro leap from the sweep attacks, or god forbid anything else he brought.

I'd say save the points and run something with heavier armor. Also, if Cygnar is bringing the storm wall, They're probably bringing Junior for Arcane Shield regardless of Warcaster. That means you're looking at ARM 22-23 (iirc) on that thing. Sorcha's feat is great, but only if your models can reliably punch through armor. Fighting the Storm Strider all too frequently has taught me that even The Great Bears and Demo Corps have trouble making that happen. You really want to be bringing down that Storm Strider? My money is on pButcher instead.

That's a good point. Partly, my thinking is that I need a reliably good tarpit and this list is also a 2nd list in a divid and conquer format, so I need a bit of versatility. I've also never not brought WGI in an eSorscha list, bat that this is an excuse. So I see this as filling a spot against a beast heavy or jack heavy list, where a 10 point high def infantry spam is a decent tarpit to allow the rest of the list to get upfield.

I suppose I could bring IFP instead and mini feat turn 1 to have a def 16 arm 18 wall sitting out front if all I'm doing is biding time with the tarpit in an anti colossal gambit, but I hate giving up the ranged options on the 2nd turn...

[quotemyname]

I think you're missing my point. The ONLY Colossal out right now is the Cygnar Stormwall. Even if you were to ignore for a second that all Colossals will be awesome at chewing up infantry with a mix of AoE spam and auto hitting abilities like lightning leap, take a look at the Stormwall. It's arguably the best at this. Single wound Infantry doesn't have a chance against them. Not even high defense tar pits, most notably from our faction the WGIDS.

Winterguard likely won't do the trick. IFP might do a little better, but god forbid he's running "Threemo" (Nemo3) with his Stormwall, those lightning leaps will be boosted, and even the black dragons will be toast. My suggestion was to consider something with heavier armor AND multiple wounds. Sorry if that wasn't too clear.

perhaps maybe:

eSorscha (6)
*Beast 11
*Sylys 2
Gun Carriage 9
MoW DC 9
MoW DC 9
Arianna and Holt 4
Great Bears 5
eEiryss 3
MOW Drakhun w/o Dismount 4

[quotemyname]

Oh, and I almost forgot:

I've also never not brought WGI in an eSorscha list, bat that this is an excuse. So I see this as filling a spot against a beast heavy or jack heavy list, where a 10 point high def infantry spam is a decent tarpit to allow the rest of the list to get upfield.

Why the heck not?! They're arguably the BEST unit she's got access to when considering all her synergy with them (not to mention Joe). At the least they're arguably the best Friendly Faction option at least if not in the whole game. What have you been waiting for, man?! :P

[The Armchair Warrior]

Oh, and I almost forgot:

Why the heck not?! They're arguably the BEST unit she's got access to when considering all her synergy with them (not to mention Joe). At the least they're arguably the best Friendly Faction option at least if not in the whole game. What have you been waiting for, man?! :P

Ah...note my double negative...I've never not brought my WGDS...i.e. I always bring them. As for the gun carriage, I like the idea but don't own it, and putting it in crowds out the Ragman. I acknowledge your point about needing Eiryss against the Stormwall though. Perhaps I swap out the gun carriage for Ragman and a unit of Doomreavers? Swapping Sylys out for the Wardog would let me poke in the UA for . I know the DRs will get shot to shreds, but with AD I can keep them alive with good positioning. Or, run em behind the MOW as a second wave?

[The Buoyancy of Water]

I'd say keep Sylys in, having become a recent convert to the eSorscha + Sylys combination. Being able to make a whole unit stationary while still having enough focus to Cyclone back to safety is simply amazing! A 16 inch threat on shutting down whole units for a turn while staying safe is really harsh! And once you've hit them once, they can't get out the way for next turn

In your list, I'd look at using that to shutdown the inevitable one bodyguard unit, which will most likely be the only non support models except the stormwall and caster in a 35pt list. Shutting down that percentage of an armies offensive output would be excellent!

Cheers,
Dave

[quotemyname]

Ah...note my double negative...I've never not brought my WGDS...i.e. I always bring them. As for the gun carriage, I like the idea but don't own it, and putting it in crowds out the Ragman. I acknowledge your point about needing Eiryss against the Stormwall though. Perhaps I swap out the gun carriage for Ragman and a unit of Doomreavers? Swapping Sylys out for the Wardog would let me poke in the UA for . I know the DRs will get shot to shreds, but with AD I can keep them alive with good positioning. Or, run em behind the MOW as a second wave?

Ah, my bad. Ragman is eh. The Armor debuff ability is nice. But against cygnar, he doesn't have stealth, I can see him getting shot to death real fast. The Tough on the doomies will rarely save them. Any gunline worth it's salt will kill them whether they're tough or not. Cygnar even loves it when they make their tough checks because then they can bounce lightning off it!

If you don't wanna use the GC, then maybe drop one of the DC units to minimum and take Behemoth? AP P+S12 will eat Collossals alive.

I'd say keep Sylys in, having become a recent convert to the eSorscha + Sylys combination. Being able to make a whole unit stationary while still having enough focus to Cyclone back to safety is simply amazing! A 16 inch threat on shutting down whole units for a turn while staying safe is really harsh! And once you've hit them once, they can't get out the way for next turn

In your list, I'd look at using that to shutdown the inevitable one bodyguard unit, which will most likely be the only non support models except the stormwall and caster in a 35pt list. Shutting down that percentage of an armies offensive output would be excellent!

Cheers,
Dave

Boyancy is quite wise. I used this trick with pSorcha last night. Charged in to kill a Scarlock Thrall, Freezing Grip on Bane Thralls, Wind Rush away!

[The Armchair Warrior]

If you don't wanna use the GC, then maybe drop one of the DC units to minimum and take Behemoth? AP P+S12 will eat Collossals

What about this?

eSorscha (6)
*Beast 11
*Behemoth 13
*Wardog 1
WGDS 10
MoW DC 9
eEiryss 3
Arianna and Holt 4
Great Bears 5

I'm missing Sylys and mechs, though... I could go for a min unit of WGI...

[quotemyname]

I still think that you don't need the WGIDS in this list at all. You're trying to fight a Colossal. Colossals have all the design points to counteract 'infantrymachine'. WGIDS IS infantrymachine. They're gonna die faster than you can get their points out of them. Just TRY running without them and see what happens. You're running two 'jacks, you could use a min unit of Mechanics like you said. Further more, with the MoW you could benefit from the Mechanic officer here.

Instead of the 10 points for the WGIDS, try:
Max Battle Mechanics 3
- Officer 2
MoW Drakhun (+) 5

That also adds another MoW to benefit from the Mechanic officer. My god. Repairing the Drakhun? *shudder*

[The Armchair Warrior]

I can't help but wonder if pButcher would be a better caster for this list...