Question about how to chose terrain with a Khador army...

[Devilix]

Hi,

with under 10 games under my belt, I become more and more familiar with this game and with my army. However, I see that terrain often cause me big problem. Let me explain the best I can. Sorry but english is not my primary way to communicate.

At the local store, we choose terrain one after the other. The first player choose one piece, second player choose one piece..etc.

With the Khador, I dont know what to choose. Yesterday, I was playing against a hordes army that almost all unit have pathfinder. He was always in the forest, so i got blocked line of sight and could not do a thing because of the rought terrain penality. I got really destroy.

Last week, I was playing against a Mercenery with a deep lake in the middle of the terrain. He was always hiding in the lake (pirate I think) and I couldnt do a thing since only one model had reach.

Whit the Khador, is there a piece of terrain that I should always look for? If yes, where to put it? Sorry if this sound stupid and newbie.

thanks for the help

[currentlyunknown]

How many pieces are you playing with? Let's say you play with 6. Given a finite amount of available terrain, pick 3 pieces that are optimal for your opponent. Then bury them in the corners of the board. After a few games like that, hopefully your opponents will realize that they should worry less about placing terrain optimally and focus on improving their play.

[ScottEBJJ]

Hi,

with under 10 games under my belt, I become more and more familiar with this game and with my army. However, I see that terrain often cause me big problem. Let me explain the best I can. Sorry but english is not my primary way to communicate.

At the local store, we choose terrain one after the other. The first player choose one piece, second player choose one piece..etc.

With the Khador, I dont know what to choose. Yesterday, I was playing against a hordes army that almost all unit have pathfinder. He was always in the forest, so i got blocked line of sight and could not do a thing because of the rought terrain penality. I got really destroy.

Last week, I was playing against a Mercenery with a deep lake in the middle of the terrain. He was always hiding in the lake (pirate I think) and I couldnt do a thing since only one model had reach.

Whit the Khador, is there a piece of terrain that I should always look for? If yes, where to put it? Sorry if this sound stupid and newbie.

thanks for the help

I would sit down with your play group and go over the terrain rules in Prime/Primal again. Placing terrain in specific ways to benefit your army is explicitly against the rules in regards to terrain set up. Terrain set up is not suppose to be a competitive aspect of the game.

[Devilix]

thanks for the quick answers. I always tought that this was the way it should be. You place one, he place one, you place one and he place one. When I play, we dont predetermine the number of pieces. We throw a dice. First player place a terrain, then we alternate. The first player decide when to stop. So, in my point of view, my opponent take advantage in placing terrain that highly benefit him.

What about the woods? What is the legal way to position it? Is it illegal for a player to place a wood in his region (center of the board but in his half) so he can access it in the first turn? When he do that, he can block my line of sight so I cant charge or attack with range.

[Natetehaggresar]

There are no hard and fast rules on what counts as competitive placement of terrain. Its just NOT supposed to be a competitive portion of the game.

Its more of a sportsmanship issue than a rules issue in that regard.

If people in your group cannot handle trying to set up an interesting board that doesn't favor one faction or another you may want to consider having a third person set up the board for you.

Generally speaking a board should have ~ six pieces of terrain, each piece should be no larger than 8"X8". (though that is a rather large piece). And no piece should be placed within 3 inches of another piece. Beyond that there really are no rules of placement.

Also note that you set up the board before you roll for turns. So if one side of the board is more favorable its a factor in deciding whether you want to go first, or go second and pick your side of the board.

[ScottEBJJ]

thanks for the quick answers. I always tought that this was the way it should be. You place one, he place one, you place one and he place one. When I play, we dont predetermine the number of pieces. We throw a dice. First player place a terrain, then we alternate. The first player decide when to stop. So, in my point of view, my opponent take advantage in placing terrain that highly benefit him.

What about the woods? What is the legal way to position it? Is it illegal for a player to place a wood in his region (center of the board but in his half) so he can access it in the first turn? When he do that, he can block my line of sight so I cant charge or attack with range.

And that type of terrain placement leads to the exact situation the rulebook says to avoid. Players should not be setting up terrain as a way to garner competitive advantage. If your play group really can't set up a table without doing that, then as suggested get a third party to set up terrain. And at the very least don't pick sides ahead of time. First player gets first turn, second player gets to pick the side.

[Steamwitch]

terrain should NEVER be competitive. Roll for randoms or make a symetrical board. If you are playing the game like you are its not gonna be fun at all:
1- water shallow
2-building
3-hill
4- forrest
5- wall or linear obsical
6- reverse hill (we use a forrest template with no trees follow trench rules)

This is how you need to play. NEVER rely on placeing terrain to hamstring your opponent. Its just not fun that way. This way you get 6-9 peices of terrain. Make a 9 section grid on the map and roll. I garentee this will be wau more fair. In honesty i would flat out refuse to play like that. Or just run harkivitch and giggle.

[currentlyunknown]

thanks for the quick answers. I always tought that this was the way it should be. You place one, he place one, you place one and he place one. When I play, we dont predetermine the number of pieces. We throw a dice. First player place a terrain, then we alternate. The first player decide when to stop. So, in my point of view, my opponent take advantage in placing terrain that highly benefit him.

What about the woods? What is the legal way to position it? Is it illegal for a player to place a wood in his region (center of the board but in his half) so he can access it in the first turn? When he do that, he can block my line of sight so I cant charge or attack with range.

Are there a bunch of legion, circle, cryx, and maybe skorne players in your area? Maybe some Ret in there too?

You're new. Say you want to play a few games without any terrain until you get a hang of the basic mechanics. Barring that, play with only obstructions (houses/buildings/rock formations you can't move over) and patches of rough terrain.

Also, you are rolling for table side right?

[Shyndaar]

As per your general groups terrain placement, you place terrain however you want. But you roll for side afterwards. That way you cant **** someone over with placement. Its ok though, my friends and i used to do that too until we learned better.

As for your original question for Khador:

Forests: Avoid them unless you have range or pathfinder. Most terrain is a deathtrap for most things without those 2 things. Only a Kodiak or other jack with pathfinder should ever be in a forest. Dont move your caster there either unless its defensive and will actually save a game. Dont do it otherwise. Dont try to run through a forest 1st turn, it doesnt end well. Snipers (with marksman) are amazing in there. They can shoot and then Swift Hunter deeper in so they cant be seen. As are Manhunters (especially with yuri) who can see through them with Treewalk.

Walls: Walls are a deathtrap. Theyre useful again only for things with pathfinder, range, reach, or pathfinder on the charge (forget the ability's name. edit: relentless charge). I cant tell you how many times ive been killed near a wall because i got caught or couldnt charge over it (you cant unless you have that charging ability i still cant rememeber. see above.). Its great to defend against range or charges (unless they have reach) but dont sit behind them with melee units.

Obstructions: Just avoid them unless its screening your caster. They get in everyones way. Arc nodes can work through them. I got murdered once because i sat behind a house and an arc node chased my caster and i couldnt do anything about it from other buffs and things. Even if its shielding your caster, dont stay there too long or too deep in, always have a way out.

Elevation: The only terrain that doesnt really effect play. It adds penalites for ranged units to hit while the target is elevated and can also block LOS but doesnt hamper play usually.

Note: I remembered that ability. Its relentless charge.

[MediumYellow]

I would suggest attempting to make a symetrical board. Two forests, two covers, and then the obligatory random piece in the middle to make things interesting.

The best piece of terrain I have ever used for khador was widowmakers on elevated cover. This gave them like 22 defense. It was quite hilarious.

[@Kriegsspiele]

At the local store, we choose terrain one after the other. The first player choose one piece, second player choose one piece..etc.

As stated above: this is plain wrong. - Another idea could be building all tables up front together and then choose the tables randomly before you roll your dice to choose the side of one table.

Still, terrain is crucial when fielding your army and planning your tactics and operations:

With the Khador, I dont know what to choose. ... Whit the Khador, is there a piece of terrain that I should always look for?

Khador loves terrain as much as every other faction loves it.
Khador has a noticeable problem with rough terrain and woods.
Khador has several units with build in pathfinder or relentless charge. And there's:
Saxon Orrik grants pathfinder to any of Khador's beloved infantry.
Khador still likes woods for gaining DEF against shootings: although it's mostly sufficient to place 1mm of your base into it.
Khador loves walls, especially against legion: they are the only way to gain a DEF bonus in these match ups!

It's truly crucial to learn how to deal with any given terrain regarding your caster and units and your opponent's caster and units. Learn to use any given terrain to your advantage. It'll take more time than learning the game in general or your individual units, but one of Khador's specialities are speed and manoeuvrability, so terrain is our friend.

[Revengineer]

like others have said, set up terrain one after another, then roll a dice. Winner chooses whether to go first or choose a table side. People tend to set up a more balanced board if theres a chance the terrain won't favour them. Hordes armies, Circle and Legion in particular are just nasty in any sort of terrain, but, (and i'll admit i tend to lose to them so take my advice with a pinch of salt) don't play their game. Make them come out of the terrain, or spray and drop bombards on nearby units/ models to get the aoe or spray into the forest. Put manhunters in the forest, they have stealth, pathfind and camoflage.
Old witch lets her battlegroup ignore forests and clouds for LOS as well. Harkevich gives his battlegroup pathfinder.
Play scenarios instead of assassination, then they cant just hide in terrain because they have to get to a specific point on the board.
Best of luck

[Tyr852]

We set up terrain the same as others have said , alternate putting down pieces then roll for 1st.It really depends on the caster you run with and what units you use as a general idea you want at least 1 linear piece that provides cover or concealment for your widowmakers if you use them , lots of forests if you are using Manhunters or Nyss Hunters. Also anything above is sound advice .. especially Saxxon, he's cool.

Also while you are new , trying getting in to scenarios right away as it forces people to be more aggressive so you don't have guys just sitting in the lake or staying in the trees all the time. Also remember that they have to be more then 3" in to a forest or you can still target them.

[Shyndaar]

The best piece of terrain I have ever used for khador was widowmakers on elevated cover. This gave them like 22 defense. It was quite hilarious.

Which is exactly why you cant have stacking terrain pieces like that. You arent allowed to have mulitple effects (like elevated cover) on terrain pieces. It can only be a forest or elevation or cover not any combo of both.