Mammoth spoiler

[Triumph Of Man]

If it's more of a ranged beast, then I'd say it won't be that great in combat....

Rat4, Fury5 is highly likely. Maybe with just Cannoneer type Melee stats? Mat5, Pow15 fists x2? 19pts.

The AOE's are good.. but if Infantry machine is dead post-colossals, are we really going to see the hordes of light infantry, like we used to, that will make this useful? It might be meta'd out of the game before the model even gets released.. I know in my Meta, infantry have already started dramatically decreasing... in some ways, the Mountain King might come out of it better than anyone... it's Melee focus means that it might be useful to take out all the other colossals and heavies people are packing in response to the colossal meta...

If you get my meaning.

Tis a good point to make.

[doom_reaver]

I can't see it being a pillow fisted pow15 not for its size. I don't think that there's a precedent for it given the huge P+S of the other gargantuans/colossals. Besides we already have one wimpy heavy in the faction in the Rhinodon.

[*SQUEE*]

I suspect it will be Rat 3 and could have the Mariner reload rule. I am digging it anyways.

[gaminguy]

Tis a good point to make.

Depending on how seriously you take the Trollblood Forum's complaints about how Mulg/Earthborn/Mauler matches or beats it's melee damage.

[Sygerrik]

It won't be less than P+S 19. I can see us paying an Enrage tax, but there is no Colossal with lower P+S than that. Even the Stormwall, a gun platform if there ever was one, is P+S 20 on those fists. I wouldn't be surprised at MAT5 RAT4, but it's going to have intense P+S. Also, wondering what its animus will be? Might be something totally new, like the Circle one.

[Woldwrath]

On top of all this...I am sure he is at least P+S18 for some crazy Paingiver/pMorghoul smashyness.

[Exemplar Voss]

Doesn't it have 4 guns on its back? Why not make it ROF 4?

My thought as well.

It seems gimped without the fourth gun.

[Feren]

If it's more of a ranged beast, then I'd say it won't be that great in combat....

Rat4, Fury5 is highly likely. Maybe with just Cannoneer type Melee stats? Mat5, Pow15 fists x2? 19pts.

The AOE's are good.. but if Infantry machine is dead post-colossals, are we really going to see the hordes of light infantry, like we used to, that will make this useful? It might be meta'd out of the game before the model even gets released.. I know in my Meta, infantry have already started dramatically decreasing... in some ways, the Mountain King might come out of it better than anyone... it's Melee focus means that it might be useful to take out all the other colossals and heavies people are packing in response to the colossal meta...

If you get my meaning.

I'm a Cryx player and I hate these colossal. Most them just rip the shreds out my infantry spam lists. Hence I moved into Skorne great beasts and as everything I love as a Cryx player. I'm gonna start hearing Cygnar being the OP faction in Warmachine lol. All the groans and moans.

[paspinall]

If it's more of a ranged beast, then I'd say it won't be that great in combat....

Rat4, Fury5 is highly likely. Maybe with just Cannoneer type Melee stats? Mat5, Pow15 fists x2? 19pts.

The AOE's are good.. but if Infantry machine is dead post-colossals, are we really going to see the hordes of light infantry, like we used to, that will make this useful? It might be meta'd out of the game before the model even gets released.. I know in my Meta, infantry have already started dramatically decreasing... in some ways, the Mountain King might come out of it better than anyone... it's Melee focus means that it might be useful to take out all the other colossals and heavies people are packing in response to the colossal meta...

If you get my meaning.

considering infantrymachine is 'dead' there's a hell of a lot of people on about their infantry kills of colossals... :P

[Epizeuxis]

Savagery anyone for getting into range really fast? Would Bushwhack work with him? Shoot and then back away, throw in Savagery for a 9" retreat.

Sadly, it can't use ranged attacks when you have savagery on it.

[gaminguy]

My thought as well.

It seems gimped without the fourth gun.

Clearly underpowered. Absolutely no excuse for this at all.

I demand that we start a petition! Naaaooow!

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!

(I'm sooooo stoked for Gargantuans.)

[PG_Tionas]

The AOE's are good.. but if Infantry machine is dead post-colossals, are we really going to see the hordes of light infantry, like we used to, that will make this useful? It might be meta'd out of the game before the model even gets released.. I know in my Meta, infantry have already started dramatically decreasing... in some ways, the Mountain King might come out of it better than anyone... it's Melee focus means that it might be useful to take out all the other colossals and heavies people are packing in response to the colossal meta...

You know, I get your meaning, but. what I think this is going to do is not shift the meta completely to one side or the other, but balance it. If you stop taking Infantry shredders, then the Infantry lists that show up (and there will be, given the ebb and flow of the world) will destroy like they once did, if you take only infantry-shredding lists, these new lists are going to beat on you. Because lists can, and probably will, include both super-durable and Super -defense models, you're going to need to be able to deal with everything, almost all the time. I have a strange feeling its going to make "all comers" lists more the norm. The reason High Def. works now, is because there is little counter to it. High arm has counters. Now, I have some pretty devastating counters in almost every army, in almost every manner. its a fun time to be playing the game. 9 models have done a Meta-bend that's pretty damned cool.

[viperidae99]

You know, I get your meaning, but. what I think this is going to do is not shift the meta completely to one side or the other, but balance it. If you stop taking Infantry shredders, then the Infantry lists that show up (and there will be, given the ebb and flow of the world) will destroy like they once did, if you take only infantry-shredding lists, these new lists are going to beat on you. Because lists can, and probably will, include both super-durable and Super -defense models, you're going to need to be able to deal with everything, almost all the time. I have a strange feeling its going to make "all comers" lists more the norm. The reason High Def. works now, is because there is little counter to it. High arm has counters. Now, I have some pretty devastating counters in almost every army, in almost every manner. its a fun time to be playing the game. 9 models have done a Meta-bend that's pretty damned cool.

Totally agree, this is a great time to be playing the game. Think of how much potential adding a new animus can give a faction. Now look at how much Colossals and Gargantuans serve up in one package. I think the potential of these things is nowhere near being realised, but I'm liking what I'm seeing. New (awesome) models to use and face, new playstyles to try...good times ahead.

[Triumph Of Man]

So current reactions from Skorne community over spoilers can be divided into two clear camps:




and/or

[legionaires]

So current reactions from Skorne community over spoilers can be divided into two clear camps:

I think you summed it up for me, plus I can see the benefit against the Primaled Ghettorix lists.

[Junn Khan]

Personally I think the downside won't be a RAT lower than 4 or inaccurate but will be the fact that the Mammoth has to pay a fury for the extra attacks. Every other Colossal has multiple ranged weapons to fire, which don't require a point to purchase, and most of the attacks generate further attacks, rapid fire and the like. Here we have to spend two fury to get the full attacks and will probably be boosting at least two hits, so four fury gone. Leaves no fury for an animus, almost fills the beast up, etc.

[paspinall]

That is just nuts. Up to 6 4" pie plates off of one model? I mean, I'm assuming he has a couple of POW 18-19 fists (Enrage tax, don'tcha know) and some tusks (maybe), and hopefully at least one or two neat special rules. It seems that each of the Colossals has at least one cool unique rule-- Lightning Pods, Creeping Barrage, Reliquary (or whatever it's called), Meat Fueled, 5" crit consume on a POW 18 (not unique, but pretty goddamn special), Whelp Shedding, Drag (again not unique, but unique among Colossals for being able to make melee + ranged attacks).

up to 6 ?



And Junn its more downsides relative to other gargantuans i would be concerned with, sure we have to spend fury to get extra attacks, but the Gargantuans self generate like all hordes so its just something I see as different rather than a particular downside.

[lifelesspoet]

Personally I think the downside won't be a RAT lower than 4 or inaccurate but will be the fact that the Mammoth has to pay a fury for the extra attacks. Every other Colossal has multiple ranged weapons to fire, which don't require a point to purchase, and most of the attacks generate further attacks, rapid fire and the like. Here we have to spend two fury to get the full attacks and will probably be boosting at least two hits, so four fury gone. Leaves no fury for an animus, almost fills the beast up, etc.

I prefer this. Turn 1-2 is bombardment and turn 2-3 is classic skorne smash. I don't want a gun so good they gimp our melee, especially given the ranged buffs we have access to.

[Triumph Of Man]

up to 6 ?

With eHex's blackspot. With Vampiric aura he's a natural choice for the Mammoth.

[paspinall]

With eHex's blackspot. With Vampiric aura he's a natural choice for the Mammoth.

Of course, for some reason I had it in my head only 1 extra attack from it, doh.

[ColdYinTiger]

Oh my. Really, just...Damn. I am feeling a bit more sorry for MK now....

[eReinholdt]

Oh my. Really, just...Damn. I am feeling a bit more sorry for MK now....

He will always have a place in our hearts. And our eMak lists.

[jettzypher]

my buddy has a MK and so far he loves it.

[ColdYinTiger]

MK is an outright gorgeous model, and he does have some good things going for him, it's just he seems overcosted by a point or two in my opinion. More time will bring me around to him because he isn't bad by any means, just not quite what was expected, considering the sheer amount of ranged attacks every other huge based jack/beast seems to be getting.

[Lord Tyrant peers]

you don't get an extra shot for each rof if you kill a model. a black spotted unit being shot at is a max of 4 shots, not 6

[Isante]

you don't get an extra shot for each rof if you kill a model. a black spotted unit being shot at is a max of 4 shots, not 6

Umm yea you do..

1st shot kills a dude, grants a free shot
2nd shot kills a dude, grants another free shot
3rd shot kills a dude, grants another free shot

[ColdYinTiger]

Last time I checked, it was one for each shot you make, you just can't get a free shot off of a free shot from Black Spot.

[computertrucker]

I am definately in the take my money camp.

Next I want a reaver warlock with range oriented feat and even more range spell options.

[PG_TyrantAndrew]

Yeah very keen for the Mammoth, pity we probably won't get it until December

[jettzypher]

Last time I checked, it was one for each shot you make, you just can't get a free shot off of a free shot from Black Spot.

the thing is, its a ROF 3 weapon. if each shots yields in at least once model being killed, it generates three more shots for a grand total of six.

you don't get an extra shot for each rof if you kill a model. a black spotted unit being shot at is a max of 4 shots, not 6

im pretty sure you do. the wording of the spell only states that black spot attacks cannot generate more black spot attacks.

[Delrogue]

He will always have a place in our hearts. And our eMak lists.

This caught me out as well.. i think they are talking about the Mountain King, not Molik Karn... Perhaps we need to call the Mountain King the M King or something...

[Feren]

Lets presume it has a rat 5 on those guns. What warlocks and support does this guy need?

Right off the bat the typical support blah blah.

Range:
Cyclops Raider
Beast Handlers
Extoller
Cyclops Savage

Melee:
Titian Gladiator
Cyclops Savage
Beast Handlers

Locks

Epic Hexris (Mammoth has this guy on his speed dial)
Epic Makeda (mostly for the road to war spell unable to use Leash)
Xexris (maybe..... Only thing comes to mind use the typical support brick up go carpet bombing close in and smash face....Like I said this is a big fat maybe)
Makeda ( again only for one spell +5 speed then shoot then use far strike and his regular move = Beeping far)


If I'm forgetting anything please continue on.

[PG_TyrantAndrew]

Makeda ( again only for one spell +5 speed then shoot then use far strike and his regular move = Beeping far)

Savagery prevents it from shooting.

[Talamare]

Makeda has her Karn
Xerxis has his Tiberius
Zaal has his Hakaar

Now Hexeris has his Mammoth

[Triumph Of Man]

you don't get an extra shot for each rof if you kill a model. a black spotted unit being shot at is a max of 4 shots, not 6.

you need to recheck your rules.

[chunky04]

I think all this talk assuming taking the Raider straight away is a little premature - it may be quite good in melee, so you may end up wanting it further forward so it may not need snipe at all.

If it does have solid melee, I think pMakeda will love it.

[Triumph Of Man]

I think all this talk assuming taking the Raider straight away is a little premature - it may be quite good in melee, so you may end up wanting it further forward so it may not need snipe at all.

If it does have solid melee, I think pMakeda will love it.

Snipe has nothing to do with keeping it away from melee, it's about giving it a larger threat range. You might as well argue you shouldn't bother taking Rush because a Bronzeback is good in melee anyway and is going to be up close.

Snipe means you can hit a bigger variety of targets. Raider is going to be pretty much an auto include with Mammoth lists.

[Delrogue]

I'm easily confused with wording chicanery... is it 4shots with Black Spot or 6? I.e. Is it an extra attack per ROF, or just one extra attack because it's the one weapon? I thought it was one extra one per attack? Rapid Fire, vs Multi-shot, etc.. does my head in sometimes

[Triumph Of Man]

I'm easily confused with wording chicanery... is it 4shots with Black Spot or 6? I.e. Is it an extra attack per ROF, or just one extra attack because it's the one weapon? I thought it was one extra one per attack? Rapid Fire, vs Multi-shot, etc.. does my head in sometimes

It's 6, I quoted the wrong guy.

[Delrogue]

I thought so... :P