Why so small?

[leo_neil316]

So, looking at the NQ 42 preview it says humans are between five foot one and six foot three. And get up to two hundred pounds.

Thats, uh. Not very big, and pretty darn skinny. Hell, heavyweight boxers have to be atleast that!

Just seems kinda strange, and was wondering why.

[themocaw]

Some are bigger, some are smaller, this is an average range.

[PPS_Dougseacat]

All the heights/weights in the RPG are average range for your adventuring characters but the caveat is given that there exist people outside those ranges in both directions. They are definitely not intended to represent the gamut of physical possibilities. (Which as we know with humans is rather a large range.) They are useful for picking a more typical size and also making comparisons with other races. You can get a good sense of how humans stack up versus gobbers and ogrun by looking at their respective figures, etc.

[Drabix1]

There's no fast food in the Iron Kingdoms and a sedentary lifestyle only begins in the grave - if then.

[jdripley]

And with Cryx around rummaging your grave for parts, there's no guarantee that you'll be able to be sedentary even in death!

In pre-modern times, being fat was a sign of wealth. Only the wealthy could afford enough food to make themselves fat, and only the wealthy could afford to not work that weight off. That can be used in your adventures, too.

Also, I read this thread title and thought "Why so serious?"

[Munindk]

I'm 6' 4" and about 200 lbs and most people I know and meet every day fit pretty well in that range, but then again I'm in Denmark so YMMV.

[Lord of ???]

Until the industrialisation of food manufacture people were smaller and lighter as they had enough for subsistence and maybe enough to sell a little on the side in exchange for other goods.

The average medieval dweller wasn't much over 5ft as they lacked nutrition through out their growing years.


Tall and well built people are relatively modern and by no means common through out or history.

[leo_neil316]

Not serious, just thought it was odd (mostly 'cause I'm almost 200 pounds, and only 5' 11" and in decent shape) especially since the fluff has some rather large people in it! Here's looking at you Khadorans.

Averaged out height/weight makes perfect sense though. Thanks for the answer.

[stormwell]

It depends on diet (and possibly culture), I'm from Britain and I'm 5' 7".

Most people I know aren't that much taller than me with only the odd exception.

[MidnightFox0083]

I'm 5'7" and near 190, skinny is not exactly what one would use to describe me.

[Sosthenes]

The average medieval dweller wasn't much over 5ft as they lacked nutrition through out their growing years.

"Average medieval" is a pretty wide target area. Actually, the worst average heights are post-medieval. It's been a while, but if I remember correctly, over most of second millennium, height declined and only rose again in the 19th century. People who lived shortly after the Norman invasion were about as tall as your average contemporary Brits.

Regarding the Iron Kingdoms, I would expect a pretty significant difference between the rural and urban areas, with the farmers actually being better fed and taller (esp. in Cygnar, maybe less so in Khador). Manufacturing workers generally are the least healthy people.

There is the "heroic" factor, though. So I'd generally go with modern heights and weights, with the occasional gang of runts for some Conan-like derision of the criminal classes.

[Septimus]

I'm 6' 4" and about 200 lbs and most people I know and meet every day fit pretty well in that range, but then again I'm in Denmark so YMMV.

Good lord; I'm 5'9" and am often among the taller people I see in public venues.

[Munindk]

I'm at the high end of the range, but my height is not unusual and most people I know fit into "five foot one and six foot three" range.

[Rasbec]

First of all, the Iron Kingdoms are not in the Middle Ages, they are in some kind of industrial revolution... but anyway, the Iron Kingdoms are a fantasy setting so the people here could be taller or smaller without a logical reason.

[maddermax]

First of all, the Iron Kingdoms are not in the Middle Ages, they are in some kind of industrial revolution... but anyway, the Iron Kingdoms are a fantasy setting so the people here could be taller or smaller without a logical reason.

People were shorter during the industrial revolution than they were during the Middle Ages - about 5'5-6' compared to 5'8". However, it should be noted that people of the middle class and better were actually nearly the same height as modern day people, as they could afford sufficient nutrition, but those of the poorer ranks dragged down the average.

Anyway, it looks like they've just used modern data for average heights - 5'1-6'3 covers exactly the middle 90% of modern heights for young men, leaving out the bottom 5% and top 5%.


Meanwhile, for weight the 6.3 and 200lbs means a BMI of exactly 25 - just on the cusp of "Overweight". Obviously if you were playing a beefy body build*r, or a bit fat and jolly character you'd probably go over that, but it's a good guide. Obesity would be far less common than today, as would the body builder look (which only caught on in the late 1800s/early 1900s), so 200lbs as top average weight for the top average height they've listed is pretty good.

Edit: strange thing, apparently the word b.u.i.l.d.e.r is filtered to become "creator" - strange.

[DarkLegacy]

Edit: strange thing, apparently the word b.u.i.l.d.e.r is filtered to become "creator" - strange.

That's to prevent anyone from misusing a trademark owned by Lone Wolf Development. Please see this thread for more details: http://privateerpressforums.com/show...w-Forum-Policy

[Sthiel]

In pre-modern times, being fat was a sign of wealth. Only the wealthy could afford enough food to make themselves fat, and only the wealthy could afford to not work that weight off. That can be used in your adventures, too.

Unless you lived in Stalin Russia in which case it was a sign of cannibalism.

[Munindk]

Maddermax: do you have a source for those statistics? Its not that I dont believe them, I just want to know which parts of the world they're based on

As for the Builder turning into Creator, the good people at Lone Wolf should be happy they their product name has become so widespread that it has become part of the language.

*Look at that, my builder didnt turn into creator *

[Blackraine]

"skinny", as in 200 Lbs at 6'3", is actually how we're supposed to look. Just like I, at 5'5" and 160 pounds, am about 10 pounds overweight (and really more like 15 if I want to stay comfortably within the "Ideal Weight" BMI range).

[Zelot # 87]

I do not believe that the BMI is accurate, I am ~6'3" and my lean body mass alone is greater then 200 lbs and until last month I never went to a gym or did anything to increase my strength.

[maddermax]

Maddermax: do you have a source for those statistics? Its not that I dont believe them, I just want to know which parts of the world they're based on

As for the Builder turning into Creator, the good people at Lone Wolf should be happy they their product name has become so widespread that it has become part of the language.

*Look at that, my builder didnt turn into creator *

Lol! Strangely, when editing it still says the B word, but then it turns into creator. Anyway, source is from here, though it doesn't seem to have an official source, however the data matches up with CDC info for American heights (under anthropometry):

I do not believe that the BMI is accurate, I am ~6'3" and my lean body mass alone is greater then 200 lbs and until last month I never went to a gym or did anything to increase my strength.

Apparently this is 6'3", 200lbs

6'3" and 200 pounds is right on the cusp of overweight at 25 BMI, but don't sweat it, the BMI is only a rough guide, and doesn't really suit all physiques, as long as you're reasonably fit, it doesn't really matter. Obviously the weights, as mentioned, are just a good average guide for characters.

[Zelot # 87]

I am the one holding up the two girls and this pic was taken 5-6 years ago.



All I know is from my personal experiences when checking the BMI with people I know it never seems to match.

The BMI might be accurate it just doesn't seem that way to me.

[StJason]

BMI is a decent guide on the fat side of things (which, frankly, is you, me, and just about everyone in a western culture...). Once you start putting on muscle, then things like water displacement make much more sense.
(5'9", 200lbs, and fat)

[Zelot # 87]

StJason I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying.

BMI is a decent guide on the fat side of things. You are referring to % of body fat to lean mass so 25% body fat is on the verge of being over weight.

Once you start putting on muscle, then things like water displacement make much more sense. Muscle is 3x as dense as fat so as long as you are not displacing that much water it is OK to weight more because you are more dense (have more muscle).

If that is what you were saying then yes I agree with you.

As for the western culture comment I think it is more Americans then western culture were you will find larger then large people. I think this is due to Americans eating a lot of mediocre quality food. While Europeans generally eat less but higher quality food. This is just based off of observations and what I have heard from others.

[StJason]

Yes, you got it Zealot. There are many body builders who have BMIs in the 30s who quite obviously don't have a single ounce of fat on them. BMI is meant for a rough guideline. If you are fit enough to get a mistaken reading on BMI, then odds are you are fit enough to not need it.

However, I disagree with your statement about Europeans. Sure, Americans are #1 on the lardarse scale (We're number one! WE'RE NUMBER ONE!!!), but the Brits and Germans are catching up.
It's a combination of encouraged sedentary life (It's quite common to go for a walk after dinner in Germany, for example), of obscene portion sizes (compare a 12oz 'tall' at Starbucks vs. a 4oz 'tall' at a Belgian coffeehouse. Or take a look at a European bagel. Or donut.), and yes, food quality (there are farmers markets more or less once a week here in the Northwest, a place known for being finicky about local, organic, and sustainable...), whereas all over in Europe you can get cucumbers or squash or fish that was growing in the sun that morning.
This is changing as the Wal-Marts and Tescos and KFCs and McDonalds move in. It's changing as instead of inviting a couple of friends over for a small dinner at your place, everyone goes out. It's changing as more and better television and internet options are coming in...

...And now the thread is thoroughly derailed.