Archangel Animus (Speculation!) and other ramblings.

[0ldsk00l]

I’ve been doing some thinking on what the Archangels animus might be. We saw with the mountain king that they gave him an already existing animus, so there is a decent chance that they might also give the AA a pre-existing animus. I complied a list of the animi in the game, and had a few thoughts on each of them.

A few things: I doubt they will give us an animus that we already have, and they don’t seem too keen to give the original Metamorphosis character beast animi out to other beasts (although, they had no problem giving the Dom characters pre-existing animi…except for Proteus). They could always create a new animus for AA like they did with Proteus, but with the large numbers of animi in the game already, I suspect they are just going to recycle one that’s out there already. It’s always possible that the Ride-By-Attack is from an animus, in which case I would be a very happy legion player.

Sorted by faction where the animus is available. I have color-coded the animi based on my estimation of the likelihood of the AA getting the animus. I have also provided some thoughts and justifications for the rating. I have doubts on some of the possible animi because PP’s general design seems to be to grant tools to make up for inherent weaknesses, not overbuff an existing strength (movement buffs instead of armor in Khador; Armor buffs in Cygnar; etc.) However, its not outside the realm of possibility if they were to choose to put such a tool on the AA, seeing the steep cost as a balancing factor against abuse. I use fluff as a justification on some, which may be wrong, but PP has generally stuck to animi that kind of ‘make sense’ for the beast, so I assume they wouldn’t give “Submerge” to a big flying dragon. Furthermore, I would guess that the AA will not get a strictly support animi (like spirit blade), but something that it can use to make itself awesome-er.

Likelihood:
Highly likely
Moderately likely
Unlikely
NO!


Trolls
Repulse: we already have this in faction, so probably not
Bomb Shelter: while a somewhat useful animi, I highly doubt they would give it to a gargantuan. It’s pretty corner case. However, on a huge base, it has some possibilities
Rage: +3 strength is a pretty awesome buff to be able to have in faction, but they have so far been pretty stingy on giving Legion melee damage buffs outside of warlock spell lists. Not that they wont, but since they haven’t really offered it before, I see it as less likely to happen. The counter point, of course, is that we would have to pay 19-20 points to get it in the army, and there is a lot less room to fit other heavies in to benefit from it. Still, if AA had Rage, then his P+S 19 bite would be pretty nice to play with, and his throws and sweeps would be a lot better. Also: Dragons do seem pretty angry all the time.
Elemental Communion: Highly unlikely, this animus seems to be pretty specific to the beast it comes from. I don’t see any real fluff-justification for giving it to a big dragon.
Flaming Fists: This I see as a little more likely; its like having ignite as an animus. It still buffs melee damage, but since its not strength, it wouldn’t increase the range on throws. Probably more likely than rage, and fits with the theme of a firey dragon thingy. If they give AA a melee damage buff, its probably this one.
Primal: While this would be a nice tool to have, it both runs into the above issue of rage and flaming fists, that PP has been stingy on handing out damage buffs outside warlocks (and the BFS…). The other major issue there would be having an auto-frenzying gargantuan. I would guess that the other gargantuans will have some kind of mechanism to mitigate frenzying (i.e. whelp generation, construct, etc…) because that’s a LOT of points to lose for a turn.
Acidic touch: Like FF and Rage above, I have my doubts about getting a melee buff, but this one doesn’t really fit the theme of ‘a fire breathing dragon.’
Lightning Fists: Really don’t see a fluff reason to have e-leap on our AA
Swarm: while it would be nice to grant the -2 to hit in melee, the AA would be unable to benefit from concealment. Additionally, there seems to be little fluff justification.
Rush: Similar to PP’s apparent hesitancy in granting us melee damage buffs, they also have yet to give us much in the way of movement buffs outside of SS. Additionally, we really don’t need the pathfinder. Not to say this would never happen, but the heavies beasts that traditionally have had access to rush were speed 4 or 5, and needed the animus to compensate for a weakness. In our case, bumping up to 8” walking threat after a 2” SS, while awesome, is probably not going to happen. The counter point is that if AA has ~5-6” movement, Rush would let it better utilize ride-by-attack by extending its overall distance.
Farstrike: I have gone back and forth on this one. On one hand, we have a very strong ranged game, and don’t really need the help extending our shooting. On the other hand, I think that if the AA had a gun that was ~10” and this animus, it might make sense. The MAIN thing that people worry about with legion getting access to snipe is 18” range Ravagores. However, eLylyth already provides this, and in my experience, the one turn of snipe is usually the only turn that you really need it. The fact that ~40% of your army will be tied up in gaining access to the animus (and on a model that isn’t really exploiting it to extreme lengths) means that the number of other ranged beasts that can do whacky things with it (ravagores) is severely cut-into. The other benefit of Farstrike is that it would really help-out the lesser-played pieces; namely pLylyth and Proteus. The Vayls could get some nice use out of it as well. However, Snipe has been given out sparingly, and usually to factions that either: 1) have short range across the board (trolls, Skorne) or 2) pay a hefty tax on it for models that can use it effectively (Cygnar).
Freezer: again, not really in the fluff.
Bounce: Hilarious, great defensively. I don’t see a dragon being terribly springy on the outside. The other 2 beasts with this have shields. Tho, maybe he swats you back with his wings or tail. Probably not.
Amuck: I doubt they will give 2 gargantuans the same animus

Circle
Tracker: Oh, please god no. We don’t need pathfinder, and circular vision on a model with thresher and reach will only make sweeps harder to get off without clipping our support models.
Baying of Chaos: Pretty specific fluff-wise to the model it’s on, and no real fluff-justificaiton for AA
Retaliatory Strike: I could see this one possibly, to give you the auto-gimp on a charging weaponmaster solo, but it doesn’t seem very fluffy.
Virility: This one seems pretty possible. The MK got an animus that buffed its power attack, so another animus that does similar seems quite likely. Adding some range to a throw from a gargantuan seems pretty nice.
Bounding: Again, an issue of giving legion more melee threat range. While it’s in circle, who has lots of spd 6 or more beasts, they don’t also have SS. It doesn’t grant pathfinder, so of the movement buffs, I see this one as more likely, because it wouldn’t waste half of it’s abilities, and it’s restricted to charges, slams and tramples. However, I don’t really see this as fitting the idea of a fire-spewing dragon-thingy.
Primal: see above.
Wraith-Bane: we already have it (and it’s magnificent!)
Shadow Shift: Have it.
Winter Coat: Cold isn’t really a thing that our beasts do. +2 armor would be nice, but we don’t hurt for armor buffs, and its restricted to self. It wouldn’t be very good for us, and doesn’t fit the fluff.
Flesh of Clay: While it would be a nice addition, it doesn’t fit the fluff.
Wild Growth: The blight kills. This would make no sense.
Earth’s Blessing: We already have safeguard. Additionally, its pretty circle-specific fluffwise
Arcane Suppression: would be a pretty awesome tool to have access to, but we are not really a faction that has ever been given much hardcore denial. Magic-hate isn’t our thing.

Skorne
Lightning Strike: AA cant make use of it, so this would make little sense (but would be AWESOME to have access to…)
Lurker: Have it.
Paralytic Aura: I can see some kind of blight-y fluff justification for it, and granting a LARGE bubble of +2/+2 against shooting would be pretty boss. Perhaps, though, the large base, and the sheer amount of the army that could be protected might make this one unlikely.
Trainwreck: As much as I would love beat-back, and it might jive with a rampaging dragon, he can’t use it, so it’s a moot point.
Safeguard: Have it.
Prescience: The future-seeing animi are pretty Cyclops specific. I can definitely see the use, but I don’t really see a fluff justification for a big-ol-dragon to have it.
Spirit Blade: Great to have access to. The name doesn’t jive with the fluff. Perhaps if it were something like ‘arcane sundering,’ or some such, I could see it being added, but I feel like the name itself precludes it from being used. Still, a great tool we don’t really have access to. Not terribly killy, though.
Bomb-shelter: See above.
Amuck: see above.
Bounce: see above.
Diminish: This one has some potential. Perhaps some kind of blight-y aura that saps the strength of those around it. It would prevent stacking with Spiny Growth on the AA himself, but would provide protection to beasts nearby who can also have SG. Stacking with pThags would even further enhance this effect. May be too good? I would hope, though, that they give him some kind of offensive ability, and not ANOTHER defensive animi.
Rush: see above.
Locker: Kinda seems pretty specific to the Sentry, as he is trained to block enemies from getting past him. Additionally, on a huge base, that animi would provide a massive area of shut-down movement for enemy war-nouns. Probably not for fluff and gameplay.

Minions
Rise: He cant be knocked down, probably not
Swarm: see above
Spiny Growth: have it.
yOrner: see above
Elasticity: he already has reach. As awesome as giving it out to a carny would be, I doubt they would give AA an animi he cant get use out of.
Submerge: that would be ridiculous!
Counterblast: Have it.
Lightning Strike: See above
Massacre: have it, and he cant get the extra move.
Pig Farm: no. just no.
Bear Hands: not a bear. BUT auto-knockdown would be awesome!
Serpent Strike: fits fluff-wise, but would be terrible! Who is going to miss a Def 10 model?

TL;DR here are my guesses as to what AA will have for an animus:
Flaming Fists if they are going to give us a melee buff at all.
Bounding if they are going to give us a movement buff at all.
Farstrike since we wont be able to rava-spam with a 20 pt. model in the list.
Diminish since it would be a defensive animus we wouldn’t be able to stack ontop of SG.
‘insert animus name here’ which would grant “ride-by-attack.’

Thoughts? What do YOU think the AA is going to have for an animus?

[Voltimor]

Maybe something new animus that give powerful attack to a model? or none and has spirit attuned can use friendly warbeast animus for free.

[ShockwaveIIC]

Interesting thought that just popped in to my head, thus if it stinks I haven't really thought it through.

Tenacity

Sort of reduces the cost of the Archangel by 2pts.......

[Northern Ronin]

You're likly ones at the end there are like the least likely ones there are. Flaming Fists + Damage buff caster turns every warbeast we have into a murderioius murder machine that will murder everything. That Kiss requires a 5 Point investment that dies to good AoEs, is hard to use more than once, and is a character choice AND requires hit rolls (and the other disruptions that come with it being a magic attack, stealth, book, spell ward, etc) AND that we can get all three going, giving any thing we have in the game +6 to Damage rolls in a list (P thag's Seraph now murders an opposing heavy without needing poison, rolling up at PS 20 in melee, Angel Thrust is the same with another 9ish damage on the first hit, Carni hits for PS 24? Really? Lord help the opponent of P-Vayl, Incite + Kiss alone can be super good, add in a pair of flaming fists, she's killing 2 heavies a turn, or just using a Scythean to 1 round an opposing colossal with almost no risk).

Diminish would be huge, since it's easy to put a Carni with Spiney close enough to the Diminish, and in a -2 Strength Aura, +4 or +6 Armor? Pretty good, it'd have to have the boxes of a Heavy to compensate, and then would only be playable with that set up, which would be bad.

And lastly no. No no no. Legion cannot gain snipe in any form for any reason, it's too good. I can still Range spam with a 20 point model, I just drop Typhon, since the Arch Angel covers his role, likely better (more so with Far Strike), Still have the space for 2 Ravagores and a Naga with some support easy (Striders + UA and Shepherd, Lots of fury management and Succubus, whatever).

[DrakkenBlut]

Awesome analysis, that took some work.

Agree on Farstrike, we may get it, disagree on Rush, we still may get it, precisely because we don't need pathfinder.

[0ldsk00l]

To be honest, after I complied the list, I didn't really feel like any of them were strong candidates. The ones I threw out there in the end were along the lines of "if they give legion X kind of buff, its most likely this one." I doubt Flaming Fists for the reasons you mentioned Jaster, as well as serious doubts about Farstrike in general. I just wanted to provide a list and spark some discussion.

As I mentioned, there are a LOT of existing animi that just would not work, or do not belong outside their factions. And it is entirely possible they will invent a new animus for AA, but we haven't seen many new a new animi in a while. I think just elasticity? So, there seems to be strong potential for recycling...

[Neutralyze]

We won't et a movement buff, melee damage buff or snipe.

[Chad]

I wouldn't be so sure about the melee buff candidates being out automatically. First, we have buffs, they just come at a price. The Black Frost shard costs us 5 for what is essentially a DEF debuff damage buff capability - but it's limited - one target per turn.

Now, I don't think we'd be getting something as big as primal as it might tip the balance a bit with our lessers/lights (though it's pricey) - since MAT 7 POW 12 disposable shredders rolling 3 dice with two attacks that you don't care if it's going to frenzy might be a bit much. You're right in that flaming fists/acidic touch would be a pretty good matchup with our stuff, I'm not sure the fluff justification will match up very well, but then, fluff can be whatever they make it. Mauler would probably be too much to ask, but not necessarily out of bounds. It would be an interesting way to make Absylonia and Rhyas more dangerous, but at a cost of fewer attacks. Since the Colossal is an expensive model to bring, you have to invest in it to get it, meaning you won't be able to spread it around as much as we can Spiny growth or tenacity. It would mean Thagrosh and E-Thagrosh similarly get more dangerous, which might be a reason we won't get it.

Freezer would be very interesting, especially on something that's going to attract so much attention. There is no precedent for giving a faction an animus it has - which might make sense only if they offered a 'utility' animus on a cheaper model - still I don't see that happening.

Virility might be kind of hilarious, since they slam smaller bases an extra 2" anyway. Bounding would be scary from a threat range perspective, but how good it is all depends upon the stats of the colossal. Diminish would be amazing with Thagrosh



What about ornery? Wouldn't help Rhyas or either Vayl but might not be terrible.

I'm not sure they'd give us far strike, partially because it would be useless to all of our spraying models, and several casters don't have ranged attacks. It would augment Saeryn and E-Lylyth (possibly regular as well) who are already somewhat concerning with their ranged shenanigans. Possible, I guess, but not likely in my opinion.

Diminish would be pretty good with pThagrosh (better than Spiny growth in some respects) or any caster that can effectively bump ARM. Though it's effect is greater than Spiny growth it coooperates with spiny on other tough models, particularly on something with such a large base. Would be pretty decent with Kallus with spiny growth flanked by a model with diminish.

I'm really interested to see what it can do.

[0ldsk00l]

We won't et a movement buff, melee damage buff or snipe.

I tend to agree, especially on the first two. That may, however, put us in the situation of getting a Gargantuan that doesn't have an animus that increases it's offense. This is not a terrible thing, and something toolboxy like virility or paralytic aura could certainly have their place.

I think I was not terribly clear in how I ended my first post. I do not think that AA will have Flaming Fists, or Bounding Leap, only that if they surprised us all and decided to grant us something out of those categories, those were the most likely candidates.

On the other hand, it is foreseeable that PP could see the pricetag of 20 points as enough of a balancing factor if they did decide in their infinite wisdom to bestow upon such gifts, as there would be far less room in our lists to truly abuse it. There is quite a difference between a 5 point model with Farstrike or rush and a 20 point model with the same.

Still, seems like our remaining options may be something defensive or toolboxy.

[Nargacuga]

There are some spells that might be converted into a nice animus for AA:

• Wind Wall
• Unstoppable force
• Energizer
• Sure Foot
• Blazing Effigy
• Ground Zero

Granted, these as animi would likely all have diminished effectiveness vs. their spell versions, but many are fluffy and would work well on the AA.

afterthought: Ground Zero mixed with blazing effigy sounds kind of cool - Models within 2" of this model are pushed back d6" in the order you choose and suffer cont. Fire.

Its like the Angelius Animus with a kick.

[rivenwyrm]

Totally speculative and almost completely impossible: COST 2, RNG 6, Target warbeast must make an attack against each model in its melee range and gains one fury, not exceeding its maximum.

The idea being that you basically get out of activation attacks, but it costs you a cumulative 2-3 fury during your turn. It gives the archangel some wicked combat/movement combinations, but also provides something useful to other beasts. Fairly expensive as far as animi go, especially if you use it before something has activated, but still useful for helping them get out of tarpits, and fits in with the Archangel's apparent shenanigans.

[Voltimor]

Or maybe a animus that grand powerful attack on the first ranged attack range 6 cost 2 giving powerful attack for 1 round would be to powerful for the 3 headed spray beast :P.

[Ordrek]

My prediction is that the Archangel with end up with either a mostly irrelevant non-self animus or a mildly useful self only animus. Support for this prediction?: The majority of our current beast selection.

[RagingKlar]

What if PP transferred a jack ability to an animus? I can't recall the name of the Menoth jack, but one of its inate abilities is a choking cloud of dust that creates a -2 to attacks. Going on the assumption we will have the fewest gargantuan hit boxes and only the shepherd for healing, we would need an arm or def boost. Plus it would fit fluff wise, as a dragon would surely kick up a huge cloud of choking, burning ash, and it is is a variation of the Ash Cloud affect from Rapture.

Burning Ash - Cost 2, Friendly faction model/unit gains a two inch aura, enemy models activating or entering in the aura suffer -2 to attacks (melee and ranged).

Basically a def boost to blunt some of those charging weapon master attacks, and makes us choose between spiny growth and tenacity.
Or to make it OP, make it cost 3 and add an unboostable Pow 8 fire for entering.

[Northern Ronin]

What if PP transferred a jack ability to an animus? I can't recall the name of the Menoth jack, but one of its inate abilities is a choking cloud of dust that creates a -2 to attacks. Going on the assumption we will have the fewest gargantuan hit boxes and only the shepherd for healing, we would need an arm or def boost. Plus it would fit fluff wise, as a dragon would surely kick up a huge cloud of choking, burning ash, and it is is a variation of the Ash Cloud affect from Rapture.

Burning Ash - Cost 2, Friendly faction model/unit gains a two inch aura, enemy models activating or entering in the aura suffer -2 to attacks (melee and ranged).

Basically a def boost to blunt some of those charging weapon master attacks, and makes us choose between spiny growth and tenacity.
Or to make it OP, make it cost 3 and add an unboostable Pow 8 fire for entering.

So you want to give it the best defensive spell in Legion so every caster can have it, keep it unit wide and make it better, and still stack with Ashen Veil?

[Draznar]

A fair version of that animus already exists doesn't it? Swarm, from the Gator's Boneswarm.

[Anosse]

What about an offensive animus? If it had no gun but had an effect like Immolation or Wall of Fire?

For some reason we do seem to have rules for that kind of animus, none of them seem to exist though.

[Northern Ronin]

A fair version of that animus already exists doesn't it? Swarm, from the Gator's Boneswarm.

Yar, the difference is that it's Self Only, and only effects living. And it's in two factions not known for their high Base Defense (Trolls and Gators).

[0ldsk00l]

I have a strong feeling that whatever it is, it will affect shooting in some way. Maybe Deadeye as an animus? (single target?) Something that grants a decently useful shooting ability

• Snapfire?
• Hunter?
• Crit Brutal?
• explosivo?
• re-rolls?
• Self-only Farstrike/+2 range?

Hard to give anything that wouldnt be crazy on Ravagores or Typhon. But, if we dont get a speed increase or melee damage buff, or another defensive buff, theres not much left of existing animi, and not a lot else that could be added. Very possible, though, that it would be self-only, whatever it is, because we are the "self-only" faction.

[Crate123]

Hmm how about arcane suppression from the woldwyrd ?
That would be a great animus for it, a tad powerful perhaps.

[RagingKlar]

So you want to give it the best defensive spell in Legion so every caster can have it, keep it unit wide and make it better, and still stack with Ashen Veil?

You say that like it's a bad thing. Guess I was a bit greedy, and I don't have Bethayne so didn't realize she already had that spell. But make it a self animus and drop the Pow 8, and I still think it could be valid. If it is a Def 12, that would only bring it up to a realistic Def 14 in melee, up to 16 with double stacking Veil or Forced Evo. Just a thought.

[Northern Ronin]

You say that like it's a bad thing. Guess I was a bit greedy, and I don't have Bethayne so didn't realize she already had that spell. But make it a self animus and drop the Pow 8, and I still think it could be valid. If it is a Def 12, that would only bring it up to a realistic Def 14 in melee, up to 16 with double stacking Veil or Forced Evo. Just a thought.

The moment you start wishing for broken stuff is the moment you wish you had a crutch to walk on, rather than getting better. I don't want to see this game snap in half myself

[0ldsk00l]

Best thing would either be something that shores up against bad matchups (like wraithbane was), or something toolboxy that opens up new options (Slaughterhouse). I would like to see something that gives mobility options (not necessarily threatrange, just movement shannanigans), or gives shooting support.