Khador Journeyman Warcaster

[Themainmenoth]

For Khador, Let's start with the stats of a Widowmaker. I'm thinking minus 1 spd and rat however. this would make her a

SPD 5 STR 5 MAT 4 RAT 6 DEF 14 ARM 11 CMD 9

Focus I think would be 3, just average like most khadorians. for spells i'm thinking Razor Wind and just for the hell of it, bring something unexpected to the table, Snipe. same stats on the weapons as the Widow maker only with a magical gun and effects except no camo and no path finder or advance deployment.

Let me know what you guys think

the weapons would be that of a widowmaker as well. likely no instant point of damage due to damage being boostable.

[MathPasta]

That would make allot of our subpar choices much better.

[Themainmenoth]

Sadly I'm not a game designer, Though I Always wanted to be one.

[Jake the Dog]

Snipe isn't Khadoran. How about Fire for Effect?

[Episkopos]

How about a Man O War Junior.

[Themainmenoth]

Khador has snipers and yet no snipe upkeep spell, felt like it should happen.

[Jake the Dog]

I think if the Journeyman is based on a Mechanik, he/she should have Fail Safe. It fits that a Mechanik Warcaster would know how to temp fix a Warjack with Arcana and would give Khador an Arm Buff! Even if it is just for jacks.

[Octavius_Maximus]

Why isnt Snipe Khador? I mean we have the best artillery in the world, we are known for it in fact.

[Themainmenoth]

Why isnt Snipe Khador? I mean we have the best artillery in the world, we are known for it in fact.

I agree as is proven =P

[koreandog]

Perhaps giving her something that provides concealment, something like Ashen Veil? This could give her a defensive buff for her and the widowmakers without relying on trees.

[Jake the Dog]

Why isnt Snipe Khador? I mean we have the best artillery in the world, we are known for it in fact.

Not really. Range is what Cygnar is known for and their artillery is more sophisticated / elaborate that Khador's. Khador is about Axe to face.

[razialx]

Although you aren't a game designer, you can always become one!

Although interesting, I'm not sure this will work out. That is to say, I'm not sure it is balanced.

You need to think as a game designer here. Think of the implications of adding Snipe to every single Khador army ever from here on out. What are the implications of that? Snipe on Widowmakers? Way too powerful. Snipe on Artillery that already has RNG 16? Not going to happen. Imagine if that bombard has Fire for Effect on it. What are the implications of RNG 20 3d6 to hit and 3d6 DMG. Too much of a change.

The reality is, there is unlikely to ever be a journeyman for Khador like Cygnar (with a nice upkeep or buff spell). Because the Journeyman came at the beginning they have been able to design around it. When creating a new unit or new 'jack they have to say "Will the Journeyman's ability make this too powerful?"

These types of compromises happen all through the game. Because of pSkarre's feat Cryx will never get an ARM18 unit. Ever.

We did get character units that have spells in many factions but they didn't have upkeep or buff spells in general (Cryx) because if they can directly interact with your army it becomes exceptionally difficult to balance.

Giving an upkeep of buff to a solo is the same as adding that spell to every single warcaster's spell list, though at cost zero for them. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see that spell go or be changed in the eventual MKIII. If I were designing this I would find that very restricting. If the Journeyman didn't have that spell you can be sure that the Stormwall would have been given ARM20 base.

[tjhairball]

Not really. Range is what Cygnar is known for and their artillery is more sophisticated / elaborate that Khador's. Khador is about Axe to face.

Range and artillery are two distinct things. Cygnar has a lot of good ranged weapons, but that doesn't mean they have a lot of artillery.

Khador has a lot of mortars. Khadoran ranged warjacks are typically the equivalent of tracked artillery pieces, as opposed to the direct-fire tanks used by Cygnar.

In contrast to Razial above, I think it wouldn't be silly to have a Khadoran (and Cryxian, and Retribution, et cetera) journeyman warcasters, you just have to be careful about what spells you give them.

Arcane Bolt is present on Haley, Stryker, and Caine already, and there are a lot of other spells like it that Cygnar warcasters have already.
Arcane Shield is present on Haley and Stryker already, and there are a lot of other spells like it that Cygnar warcasters have already - Fortify, Fail Safe, and Deflection all enhance ARM (2 on warjacks, 1 on units).

Cygnar warjacks and units need to be balanced around Arcane Shield whether or not Journeyman Warcaster is around. My buddy is running a Stormwall Cygnar list. Stormwall always has an armor buff, but he's actually not fielding the Journeyman Warcaster very much. If there wasn't a Journeyman Warcaster, then you would just see the Cygnar warcasters with ARM buffs already be more popular with Stormwalls - such as Darius, Haley, Stryker, and Nemo, which includes some great Stormwall warcasters.

The obvious first spell for a Khadoran Journeyman is of course Razor Wind. Iron Flesh is the easy second choice, since it's a strong upkeep spell that many Khadoran warcasters already have, so the game is already balanced around Khador being able to Iron Flesh key infantry tarpits. It would mean that a journeyman Khadoran warcaster would not be able to support warjacks as well as the Cygnar journeyman, but upkeepable jack-buffing spells are very caster-specific in Khador (and not terribly common), while Iron Flesh is everywhere.

[agent red]

Its also easily one of the top three spells in the game in terms of sheer dumb abusability. Do you really want to be sitting across the the table from def 21 Scorsha or Vlad? Mind you that's before you even start factoring in the mutt.

[guspm]

you have not listed weapons and cost, these would make a huge difference in balance, also Khador casters tend to be a touch lower than cygnar on focus, possibly go to 2 focus but make it up in some of the other stats if needed. Which spell is razor wind again?
I also agree that snipe is a bad idea and has too many problems with balance; fluff wise it makes no sense either, why would every khador journeyman have a spell that no khador warcaster actually casts?

[Marth]

...also Khador casters tend to be a touch lower than cygnar on focus...

I beg your pardon, but where does that opinion come from? It's probably evening itself out, with Harkevich being only six focus and so, but on the whole, Cygnar is (or at least, used to be) closer to the 6 FOC mark than Khador. I haven't done the numbers lately, though.

As for a khadoran Journeyman - razorwind (and other offensive spells), yes. I mean, he's going to miss a khadoran heavy 50% of the time. Snipe, No. Armour Buffs, No. Iron Flesh... perhaps. I mean, it has to be factored into all releases at any rate, and with Colossals/Gargantuans, Infantry is no longer the be-all-and-end-all... Fortune is one I could see. Twister also.

But on the whole, there'll probably be no Juniorski, for lack of spells to give him.

[Themainmenoth]

May I make one statement here, As the OP, let me make something perfectly clear, I love making home brewed stuff, And many game developers do not post anything without FIELD TESTING. as it stands, I've made a post asking if anyone has ever used or faced a home brewed model, not one person responded, so now I ask this instead, What does it matter? call it over powered or under powered, it's all irrelevant. Khador isn't the melee powerhouse it once was, It has become much more mixxed arms and will likely keep evolving. with this being said +4 inches isn't that much. May i point out the random inclusion of the Arcidon to an army of spd 4 power houses, making a heavy have an 18" charge range, yes a 20" gun would become possible, but stop and ask yourself, Is it REALLY more powerful then EVERYTHING else in the game, or do you think it would be without ever testing the waters?

[tjhairball]

Its also easily one of the top three spells in the game in terms of sheer dumb abusability. Do you really want to be sitting across the the table from def 21 Scorsha or Vlad? Mind you that's before you even start factoring in the mutt.

Do you really want to be sitting across the table from an ARM 21 Darius or ARM 20 Brisbane?

Oh, wait. You already can be. Iron Flesh at least has the drawback of being a range 6 spell that prevents the target from charging, which is something Vlad and Sorscha tend to want to do. This means if you want to charge and have Iron Flesh, your journeyman will be right next to the action. Arcane Shield has no drawback at all, and can be maintained by a journeyman hiding in the far corner of the board.

A Khador journeyman with Iron Flesh + Razor Wind wouldn't break the game. To deal with DEF 18 effectively, you really want to deal in things that don't need to roll to hit and leave the target stationary or knocked down, and those will still work against DEF 21... or 23, after Fog + Dog roll into play.

[Octavius_Maximus]

I beg your pardon, but where does that opinion come from? It's probably evening itself out, with Harkevich being only six focus and so, but on the whole, Cygnar is (or at least, used to be) closer to the 6 FOC mark than Khador. I haven't done the numbers lately, though.

Relatively equal focus stats, but access to Squire, Finch, Nemo1's extra focus, Constances mega focus turn and the Journeyman. Cygnar has lots of ways to push their focus further.