Love me some Hydra with eVyros....

[GunSeraph06]

Played a couple games yesterday with my eVyros theme list. 1st game against a menoth list with 2 jacks and a BE, he kept beating on a Hydra with ranged attacks, getting it up to 8 focus total. I moved an arcanist to repair (he was shot up, needed to fix a G box to make the Force Cannon work again). He ran Sevvy down to the bottom corner and put him in a cloud from Gorman. I advanced 3-4 inches, Declared a RNG 20 POW 20 attack against a DEF 16 Sevverius,rolled triple fours from boosting attack, and boosted damage for 3 Dice +6, doing a total of 18 damage...GG

Next game I played against an Legion Absylonia Beast Heavy list with like a Angelius, Ravagore, a Scythean, Tryphon, a couple shredders, a harrier or 2, and a raek. Typhon got rid of some sentinels, I used a scyir to kill a shredded in B2B, opening a charge lane for a hydra. One Hydra had 3 focus (from previous), and the other had 4 (from previous, and 1 from an attack), and I put one on the Griffon. eVyros had a charge lane, so he cast synergy and charged the Angelius to start the synergy chain, bought 2 swings later, Angelius is hurt, but stiil viable. I had destors charge a harrier, clearing Hydra charge lane to Angelius. Griffon charges, misses, but hits with his shield, so synergy is +2. I use Hydra 1 (with contrated power) to charge Angelius, boosting to hit on charge, deals a lot, then boosts to hit on second initial hit, finishing the Angelius off. used lone sentinel officer to charge Scythen and do decent damage, and have destors on other side all charge Scythean, softening him to 4 boxes. Synergy is +3 now. 4 Focus Hydra (also with concentrated power) steps up, swings on Typhon, hurts him, hits with second initial attack, then uses head butt to do damage and knock him down. I buy an attack on near-death Scythean (I was B2B with Tryphon and Scythean), kill him, and then buy 2 more attacks on the KD Tryphon, killing it with 1 focus remaning. He quit at that point because he had an untouched Ravagore and an untouched Raek, some forsaken 1-2 other supporters, and Absylonia. I still eVyros, Griffon, 2x Hydras, 1 sentinel officer and SB, 2 min units of destors, and a Thane. He said he capitulated because I took out all his melee attacks. Also took out a shepard and a couple Forsaken with the Thane, multifire is crazy good.

I love the new showcase role the Hydra has now...It can be a second like Sniping unit until it needs to get closer to the fight when scynergy and concentrated power is is use. The Hydra is a pimp-master general uner eVyros in my humble opinion....

[NEoJoe]

Hah, well I'm glad he's been working so well for you. I wouldn't expect the Menoth player to give you eight focus again though

[PG_Dawnlord Ed]

Congrats on the wins!

Two things, however. 1.) Your opponents will learn quickly to not attack the Hydra until they can kill it. A Hydra with 8 focus is something that a player will do himself once. Don't expect it after that.

2.) He tapped out too early. Don't get me wrong: you were sitting pretty. But I've won games with less. He should have done one more round of maneuver. You were probably good, though.

I think the Hydra is much more legit with eVyros. Being able to store focus for when it really matters helps him out a lot. And, of course, Bird's Eye. I'm looking forward to running one or two with him.

[Lord Sessadore]

Hah, well I'm glad he's been working so well for you. I wouldn't expect the Menoth player to give you eight focus again though

I watched that game - the Menoth player definitely regretted it.

Pretty sure that Menoth player won't be playing Sevvy vs. Ret in general anytime soon, lol.

I love that the Hydra has a nice home now. Personally I'm still not sure I want to give up my reach heavies for a pair of Hydras, but I can see myself running a Hydra and another heavy. Ok ... maybe I just love my Phoenix and don't want to give him up, so sue me. >.>

[PG_Dawnlord Ed]

A heavy arc node with Reach and Combustion is a hell of a drug.

[NEoJoe]

Ok ... maybe I just love my Phoenix and don't want to give him up, so sue me. >.>

A heavy arc node with Reach and Combustion is a hell of a drug.

Boy is it.

But actually keeping this thread on Hydras with eV, thoughts on the best way to do it? Let's just do an exercise (I'm bored for the next 20 min or so).

We know that an opponent in the know doesn't attack a Hydra unless it's with a charging Bronzeback or Doomreavers or whathaveyou. We also know that plenty of lists whittle down heavies with attacks before really going in to them (we know this because we do this). So we can figure that in at least some matchups we will see our Hydras get bonus focus and actually use it, or see our Hydras get avoided when it isn't in the best interest of the enemy (since they planned on shooting our heavies to begin with).

I'm sorry, I jumped the gun. This is if we have something like all Hydras. And not just sitting in the back. How about three Hydras and the ubiquitous light. Griffon or Aspis. In fact, Aspis helps if the enemy has REALLY big guns that we want to avoid connecting with the Hydras. Anyway, that's 26 points. Kinda up there.

They Hydras are scary. If you throw them a heavy, they'll mess it up. If they're close-ish to the front, they'll almost always aim. This negates about anything but cover, and if they don't have a defensive bonus the Hydra as a good shot at removing them from the board. And a shot nonetheless if they do.

Since your force is all Hydras, as mentioned before, you're either getting bonus focus or avoiding all damage until the time is right for your enemy to kill you. Meaning, unless they have super duper speed, you'll always see this coming. You will need infantry to handle infantry. You can potentially build the rest of your force to deal with these shortcomings nicely.

Okay, I lied, less than 20 since I want to eat something. Hydra fans, maybe toy around with that.

[joelker41]

Well I really think that eVyros addresses a lot of the Hydra's issues with synergy, bird's eye, etc.

I am really tempted to just try a lot of different triple myrmidon combos with Ossyan's tier. I am curious if triple Hydra there would work.

[Azrael305]

I'm relatively new to ret and never realized that the hydra could camp more than 3 focus. I thought that was the max. I am excited to try some of this out now.

[FranzGrenstein]

I'm relatively new to ret and never realized that the hydra could camp more than 3 focus. I thought that was the max. I am excited to try some of this out now.

It can only be alocated 3 focus, it can hold infinity. So unless your opponent is trying to plink it to death, you are generaly not going to more than 3 focus. As was stated above, your opponents only fall for that once...if you are lucky. Because we have (hydra) I am curious if Ret will even get a epic warcaster bond.

[Lord Sessadore]

I'm relatively new to ret and never realized that the hydra could camp more than 3 focus. I thought that was the max. I am excited to try some of this out now.

Yes, it's important to note that you, its controller, can never give it more than 3 focus (barring special rules, like a jack bond etc...). If it has 3 or more, you can't give it any more.

How GunSeraph's Hydra got 8 focus was because it got attacked several times - each hit gives the Hydra another focus - and then the Focus Battery rule lets the Hydra keep all of its focus at the start of your turn, instead of going back to 0 like normal.

[Wutwut]

Isn't the Hydra exceptionally vurnerable to disruption? Always assumed one of the reasons the Hydra wasn't fielded that much was in part due to easy access to it by the swans (which are also a nice target for an eVyros speed charge list in general).

[Mastershake]

Hmmm...so reading this its hard for me to not think that the games you're playing are much slower than mine.

Usually turn one is Cast Deflection, Cast Synergy, so it gives him 2 focus of which one is usually spent running a jack while the arcanist power 2 more. Second turn is usually feating, upkeeping Syngergy and casting deflection leaving a small amount of focus to go around for jacks. Either way, I've never had a gap in a game with eVyros where I could just dump 3 focus on something for it sit on later. The only way I could really see this is if you don't need deflection. Beyond that I don't like the Hydra's melee threat range and if you're boosting anything with it's gun, you're dropping the focus storage. On top of that it only hits marginally harder than a Griffon (and with the extra points you could easily buy another Griffon and Synergy it up to the same hitting power) and lacking Pathfinder and Reach is more likely to require easy rider and could be crippled more easily by good placement around walls (not mentioning the obvious weakness to disruption which just makes it a crappier Manticore for an extra point)

Don't get me wrong, I intend to mess around with a little bit of everything including the Hydra, but eVyros seems like he keeps the enemy engaged the whole game meaning rarely getting opportunities to top off a jack just in case. The games also sound more like opponents not knowing how to approach eVyros/Hydra rather than the Hydra doing something truly amazing, but I certainly wont complaing if it turns out to be great tech with the caster.

[Lord Sessadore]

Isn't the Hydra exceptionally vurnerable to disruption? Always assumed one of the reasons the Hydra wasn't fielded that much was in part due to easy access to it by the swans (which are also a nice target for an eVyros speed charge list in general).

Disruption is a way to get around their shenanigans, but they're not any more vulnerable to it than any other myrmidon (it isn't any easier or harder to disrupt a Hydra than it is to do the same to any other myrm).

However, disruption doesn't stop the Hydra from gaining focus from Kinetic Capacitor. Yes, a hit with a disrupting weapon will dump all the focus on the Hydra, but then it will gain 1 immediately afterwards from that hit (active player resolves first, remember), and will continue to gain focus for each subsequent attack. Unless they're all disruption, in which case the 1 focus would get wiped and renewed each time, lol.

Of course, that just means that the proper way to do it is to hammer away, then disrupt last.

[FearLord]

Disruption is a way to get around their shenanigans, but they're not any more vulnerable to it than any other myrmidon (it isn't any easier or harder to disrupt a Hydra than it is to do the same to any other myrm).

However, disruption doesn't stop the Hydra from gaining focus from Kinetic Capacitor. Yes, a hit with a disrupting weapon will dump all the focus on the Hydra, but then it will gain 1 immediately afterwards from that hit (active player resolves first, remember), and will continue to gain focus for each subsequent attack. Unless they're all disruption, in which case the 1 focus would get wiped and renewed each time, lol.

Of course, that just means that the proper way to do it is to hammer away, then disrupt last.

It's worth noting that Storm calls are not attacks, and therefore will not gain you any focus. Also, spells that disrupt (as Kinetic Capacitor requires a melee or ranged attack).

[Sinsation]

On top of that it only hits marginally harder than a Griffon (and with the extra points you could easily buy another Griffon and Synergy it up to the same hitting power) and lacking Pathfinder and Reach is more likely to require easy rider and could be crippled more easily by good placement around walls (not mentioning the obvious weakness to disruption which just makes it a crappier Manticore for an extra point)

Hydra will still have the chain attack, which will have increased chance to trigger due to synergy giving a MAT buff, which neither griffon nor Manticore has. Also, disruption will cause it to lose focus, but it will still gain focus from that attack (if it would normally) and further attacks. Not only that, but you'll still get to spend the focus since disruption doesn't prevent use of focus, just allocation and channeling. For comparison:
Manticore gets disrupted -> arcanist power boosts -> 1 focus to use.
Hydra gets disrupted -> Arcanist uses concentrated power -> 1 or more focus to use, +2 strength, chain attack.

[Murkhadh]

My experience with the Hydra was not so positive. He feels out of place in my eVyross list, My lists flies across the board and jams jacks and horsies down your throat, the Hydra doesn't do that, his melee threat range is blah. I also have focus issues with the list as is and having to dump focus on the hydra to keep him fueled if he shoots was really hard.

My first turn is always cast deflection and one other spell. Either easy rider or Synergy. I much prefer to cast synergy first turn and upkeep it, but if the terrain is slowing me down, I often need to cast easy rider. Then after giving focus to jacks there isn't much left for the Hydra.

Its even worse If I couldn't cast synergy first turn, then second turn I have to cast it and give jacks focus etc.

[GunSeraph06]

With the free focus from Tier 4, I top off Hydras to 3 focus first turn and cast Deflection. Once in a great while I might cast Easy Rider. I don't cast Synergy first turn because I don't like to tip my hand that the Hydras will be in melee later, most opponents think they are ranged support pieces and aren't serious melee threats (which, without eVyros, is usually true lol). I'll cast Synergy on the turn I want to charge them forward and break things. Ride-by attack for eVyros is a sweet deal to start the Synergy chain, btw.

[joelker41]

I think the real question of this thread is how did your opponent allow himself be in a spot to get all those heavies annihilated.

Seems....unlikely that would happen in my area.

[Murkhadh]

With the free focus from Tier 4, I top off Hydras to 3 focus first turn and cast Deflection. Once in a great while I might cast Easy Rider. I don't cast Synergy first turn because I don't like to tip my hand that the Hydras will be in melee later, most opponents think they are ranged support pieces and aren't serious melee threats (which, without eVyros, is usually true lol). I'll cast Synergy on the turn I want to charge them forward and break things. Ride-by attack for eVyros is a sweet deal to start the Synergy chain, btw.

Your not tipping anything by casting synergy its his trademark spell.

[GunSeraph06]

eh those not familiar with Ret don't often see it coming, I always disclose fully his spells and what they do before the game starts, and I guess it doesn't enter their minds early. I intentionally don't cast it first turn and rather fuel the hydras early so they have the extra range to pick off key support pieces before going all Vitor Belfort on enemy heavies...Different meta I guess, but the concept of holding it back hasn't hurt me yet...

As for joelker, I've seen them clump heavies together a few times, again different meta I guess. I don't know if they feel safety in numbers is in their mind or they just don't know...but like I said its happened a couple times at least since I started playing eVyros theme. Might be a function of blocking charge lanes for AD sentinels, +2 SPD first turn cav, and eVyros feat turn?

[FearLord]

eh those not familiar with Ret don't often see it coming, I always disclose fully his spells and what they do before the game starts, and I guess it doesn't enter their minds early. I intentionally don't cast it first turn and rather fuel the hydras early so they have the extra range to pick off key support pieces before going all Vitor Belfort on enemy heavies...Different meta I guess, but the concept of holding it back hasn't hurt me yet...

As for joelker, I've seen them clump heavies together a few times, again different meta I guess. I don't know if they feel safety in numbers is in their mind or they just don't know...but like I said its happened a couple times at least since I started playing eVyros theme. Might be a function of blocking charge lanes for AD sentinels, +2 SPD first turn cav, and eVyros feat turn?

To be fair, he's an unreleased model from an unreleased book - you aren't going to be surprising anyone for very long... eVyros = Synergy...

[GunSeraph06]

Not trying to take advantage of it being a surprise, like I said I let people know about it; I just feel filling jacks early is a higher priority for me...

[GunSeraph06]

On a side note for eVyros, I'm also very glad that Kaelyssa wasn't able to catch and cook Jyren as she originally threatened in the Ret fluff...

[Mastershake]

On a side note for eVyros, I'm also very glad that Kaelyssa wasn't able to catch and cook Jyren as she originally threatened in the Ret fluff...

That's how she goes epic, even has a rule stating you lose the benefits of Bird's Eye while in her control area

[FearLord]

On a side note for eVyros, I'm also very glad that Kaelyssa wasn't able to catch and cook Jyren as she originally threatened in the Ret fluff...

pfff - she tried, but he saw her coming...

[Demeritus]

pfff - she tried, but he saw her coming...

Well the age old question of "Vyros what does your elf eye see?" has been answered.