Crazy N3mo list

[Stephan Garmark]

N3mo
Finch
Stormwall
Stormclad x2

Stormblades
Stormsmith x3
Reinholdt
Journeyman
Strangewayes

Running 12 focus each turn is awesome. I know that the old guy likes a lancer, but I dont mind hitting him with chain lightning when He's within 10". Those two clads are just nasty, stormwall is a huge board presence and can take a punch. Stormsmiths are extremely important. They can put out a lot of damage and you can use them to arc chain lightnings or Nemos gun, if you cant find a pod to use instead.
Thoughts?

[sleet01]

Stormguard >> Stormblades with cNemo unless you have some other front line speedbump, at least in my experience. In this case I'd drop one Stormclad to a Firefly or Hunter and stick in a min unit of Forge Guard or Sword Knights. The Firefly marshalled to Sword Knights with the UA might be okay, but you'd have to drop a Stormcaller or Reinholdt.

[Stephan Garmark]

The speedbump tactic, while apparantly being very popular in these forums, isn't something I generally do. If I bring a melee tarpit I do it because I have some inherent weakness in the list that I need to balance by bringing something that can just stand there and not die, most often that unit is Boomhowlers.
Nemo does like stormguard and I run them ever so often with him, but in this list I don't see why I would want a tarpit. Stormwall does a great job at keeping infantry away with covering fire, and pods + smiths + reinholdt + chain lighting is more than enough weak attacks to take out most units.
Think of it as this; often when I play Legion, I don't have any melee units. I usually run Saeryn and her battlegroup and a lot of support solos. I think Nemo can benefit a lot from this playstyle, he runs jacks like nobody elses business, albeit without speed boosts. Running 2 Stormclads for only 2 focus each turn is extremely good. Stormclads have both reach and electroleap, so I wouldn't be scared to get them into a melee unit and bring on the hurt. The clad can kill 7 light or medium infantry models each turn, Stormblades are harder to keep alive, but deals a little more damage and has a little more versatility, but stormwall can help you not getting outmaneuvered.
I appreciate the input though, I just wanted to try something a little different than the Stormguard default option with Nemo.

[Stephan Garmark]

double post

[Bloodsplatter artist]

Yeah that's what I don't get, everyone seems to think that all our lists need infantry support but anytime you ask an opinion on a unit it's "the unit is ok but it does what every other model in our faction does, kills one wound infantry." so if our infantry does the same thing as e-leap and cover fire why bother with it? I understand we want something to stop te enemy tarpit from tying up our blades but isn't that what chain lightning is for?
I don't think this was the mist eloquent way to say this but I think I got my point across.

[sleet01]

@Garmark: My mistake was thinking you wanted the Stormblades for anything but a focus battery; I could have sworn you had the UA in there, which generally indicates desire to use the SBs offensively, but apparently my eyes deceived me. If you just want to run them behind the Stormclads for free focus, yeah, you don't need a front-line unit... but it's not exactly a cheap battery.

@Bsa: It certainly wasn't the most eloquent way to get your point across, as I'm still not sure what your point is. Is it that Electro Leap and Covering fire kill models? That doesn't seem very controversial. Is it that they're just as good as actual bodies at tying up incoming forces? Because that's just not true. For one thing, cheap bodies can block LOS to our glass-cannon troops like Storm Blades, who are almost always going to die to any enemy ranged attacks. And for another, cheap bodies at least have a chance of slowing down multi-wound infantry or cav, while POW 10 spells and POW 12 covering fire really don't.

[Bloodsplatter artist]

You talked about talked about blades not being an expensive batter but spending 6-10 points on a bunch of models to stand there and die isn't very efficent either.
Also how often is any other faction going to bring anything more then a token shooting force. And we have terrible problems with heavy infantry anyways. We have no units that can really absorb that kind of attack anyways so why just take models that will sit there and die.
I'm not saying no infantry but I think we should put our focus and effort into busting hard targets. If 3 1 point geezers with sticks can kill 9 dudes a turn I would rather that 10 points of precursors be another jack and solo.
Also for heavy infantry that's why we have light jacks.

[sleet01]

Actually, I talked about Stormblades *being* an expensive battery. Granted, they may be able to do a couple of hits in a pinch, toward the end of the game, but 5 points for two more points of focus per turn isn't exactly setting the world afire with regard to PC/focus point.

The point of speedbumps isn't to just die. It's to force the opponent to stop and deal with them, and in that critical turn allow our heavy hitters to get the alpha strike they truly need to be effective. Now, if you don't play things that way, if you prefer to let the enemy heavy infantry just slam right into your 'jack wall and tie *you* up, that's perfectly fine. But speedbumps are a valid play style.

As for non-token shooting forces, perhaps you've heard of Legion, or Retribution, or Cygnar mirror matches, or Khador WGI deathstars + Snipers, or Circle, or... Let's just say that your meta may be ranged-light, but not all of us are so lucky.

We truly do have a problem dealing with heavy infantry except via 'jacks, but that is why speedbumps can work: they let our 'jacks take the first swing at the heavy infantry, instead of getting hit first and then trying to recover from getting put on the back foot by that enemy alpha strike (if they survive at all!).

And I will tell you that our light 'jacks in melee are no match for most medium-to-heavy infantry out there: unbuffed and without the charge, our best melee light for the price (the Firefly) has only a 30% chance of killing a 5-wound infantry model, and only a 6% chance of killing an 8-wound trooper. With the charge, they're still only at 60% and 36% respectively. Sure, those numbers go up if you can slap debuffs on the targets or buffs on our models, but by the time you get to a light-'jack force (and its concomitant support) that can kill a 9-point Gatorman Posse, you're paying twice as much in points for 'jacks and support. And the Gatorman posse is just as likely to get the first strike due to their inbuilt Pathfinder, in which case they will shred your light warjacks. Most medium or heavy infantry or Cav is going to equal or exceed the threat range and damage output of a light 'jack wall, meaning you probably won't even get a chance to use your 'jacks against them. Putting some cheap troops up front to blunt their charge can help prevent that.

[Stephan Garmark]

Tarpits have a lot of uses, and are great in a lot of lists. I generally don't take one when I play eHaley because gun mages + dead eye, her feat and her speed boosts are more than enough to insure the alpha strike. I know Ben (RollingThunder) likes to play her in a jam list, but that playstyle is just not me, and I'm doing fine without tarpits with her. However, eStryker likes to have stuff to just throw away in waves to support his jacks, I prefer our own infantry with him though, same goes for Connie.

Now, about the stormblade battery. It's not just a battery, it's six guys with pow 15 and a good mat AND they give me 2 focus each turn, I don't think thats particularly expensive for 5 points. Running jacks with beast like efficiency sounds really good to me and Stormwall is going to draw more attention than those blades any day. If the battery dies, the list is still solid with 3 extremely good jacks and some descent crowd control, so I'm not worried about the blades poor odds at staying alive, also every shot that takes down a stormblade is something thats not hurting my jacks.

So, I don't think tarpits are ever bad, I just don't think they're the be all end all of warmachine, as I said I don't use them with Legion, so why not try to see what happens when I can run jacks at the same level of efficiency with some really good boosts to their armor.

If the list sucks, I'll definatly switch a stormclad for a unit of Stormguard and dump the blades for a lancer (I would have one point left), but I've fielded stormwall a lot and every game he completely denies infantry and has proven extremely hard to take down even against players that have upkeep removal. His big problems are pistol wraiths, I hate those guys, and I don't have a lot of magic attacks in my list, so they can really be a problem, but even when they do their sad little lock, Stormwall is still very much able to take a punch and bring some pain. (he's so fun to play with eHaley).
I'm a little sad that Nemo doesn't have any movement buffs, but he's got a lot of other good stuff going on, and I'm hoping that that will be enough.

[sleet01]

I'm thinking that cNemo was specifically designed with Storm Walls in mind, so using up a spell slot on a movement buff he might never use may have looked like a poor choice to the designers. I have to say I'm quite pleased with Force Hammer, even if I look over at Energizer or Locomotion and give a longing sigh from time to time.

Now, if I'm not mistaken this looks like a Tier 1 cNemo theme list, but you're not taking Stormguard so you don't get the -1 PC bonus there. What about breaking the theme, and swapping in Ragman for Reinholdt and a SS? You'd lose some anti-infantry but gain a significant anti-armor boost *and* some magic to take out the Wraiths with. I know how hard it is to part with Stormcallers, but I wonder if the addition of Dark Shroud, Bone shaker, and Dominate Undead could make up for it. Plus, Sac Pawn-> Living works just fine with six Stormblades who just want to hang out and give out Focus.

[Stephan Garmark]

its not tier though, eNemo can't use Reinholdt in his tier list

[sleet01]

Reinholdt *should* be in his tier! ^_^ But this is what I get for posting without a coffee in my hand. -_-

[Stephan Garmark]

Reinholdt *should* be in his tier! ^_^ But this is what I get for posting without a coffee in my hand. -_-

I completely agree, PP should consider opening mercenary options in more tier lists, ESPECIALLY in Cygnar. A Siege tier with Reinholdt should probably be the first one (oh and reduced cost Defenders, gimme!)