Best and worst of Menoth

[Hrimfaxi]

Well, here we go.

Best Warcaster: I have a particular love of the Harbinger, but this is supposed to be a personal favorite and for me Thyra always comes through. So long as I don't plan on her murdering something herself I always seem to be able to slip Blood of Martyrs into someone and her anti-denial toolbox is great. Screw you, tough.

Worst Warcaster: As much as I'd like to say Grand Exemplar Kreoss since he's so 1 dimensional his feat is too good to ignore, so I'll actually go with Testament. High Reclaimer has some interesting build possibilities with 'jacks and those clouds can mess you up, but Testament just doesn't have the flexibility to really work. If he had something with a full resurrect, or better focus efficiency, or better defensive stats, or practically anything he'd be equal, but he doesn't.

Best Light Warjack: Redeemer. I'd like to see some more Repenter action, but the Redeemer does something that nothing else (mayhaps the Judicator) really does, involving long range boostable shots. It keeps opponents honest so they have to engage and plays hell with really annoying high Defense low Armor troops.

Worst Light Warjack: I'd shoot with the Devout, but that's more due to the messed up nature of Shield Guard currently. Can we get an errata on that, please, PP?

Best Heavy Warjack: I hate this awful thing, but that's because it taunts my dreams. The Reckoner is so goddamn good and is the backbone that really supports any form of ranged Protectorate play due to being the *only* solid single target boostable shot in faction. Add on that it's totally fine in melee, with Reach, oh, and Speed 5.....yeah.

Worst Heavy Warjack: This took some thought. My kneejerk reaction was the Castigator, but I've gotten some decent play out of it with Reznik and I can imagine Intercessor Kreoss liking one as well, so I took a long look at which heavy I don't bring, and it occurred to me that my winner was the Crusader. Yes, its solid, cheap, hits like you won't believe, but due to focus constraints its lack of anything special leads me toward other models. We're a warjack faction, why wouldn't we take our better warjacks?

Best Unit: This was hard not because we have so many wonderful units, but because we have so many really good units. TFG, Daughters, KE, etc., are all really solid. So I had to default to the Knights Exemplar Errants, as they're a relatively cheap unit with a ranged weapon and access to Pathfinder, which just doesn't seem to exist outside of solos.

Worst Unit: Exemplar Vengers. Seriously. Worst cavalry in the game by my reckoning. Other cav hits harder, is more reliable, has better defenses, or is more mobile. Their mat is fine for the most part, but the PS 10 hooves really kill the chances for them to really break through a line to hit a back end charge target. If only we had a caster that could marginally increase their chances of hitting that had access to a damage buff that typed melee damage and Strength....oh wait. We do. So with Intercessor they're probably fine, maybe good. Otherwise I hate 'em. Mostly for letting me down, because I really *want* to like them, but to take them I need to take Rhupert (why Pathfinder when my enemy chooses?) and have some why to buff their performance.

Best Solo: Our solos are mostly all wonderful. There are very few solos (see below) that I wouldn't want, so picking just one as top of the pack is pretty hard. Covenant and Gravus come to mind for the same tech reason, although the no spells on the Covenant is soooooo good as well, and flaming Blessed crossbow bolts deal with Tough so well. I was also tempted by our focus support, Reclaimers and Vassals of Menoth are so good. Then I stopped and thought of what I take in most of my lists, and the winner were Wracks. Weird, but hey I'll take a focus each turn for 3 turns for 1 pt.

Worst Solo: I really want to say Vassal Mechanik as it has always failed me, but I'll have to in good conscience say the Hierophant. While I detest the Mechaniks and their oh so horrible repair skill, I don't expect anything out of them and they at least die entertainingly. The Hierophant on the other hand is always sucking 2pts out of my lists for 1 focus a turn basically. He's kinda the worst caster attachment in the game that I can think of, I'd kill for Wishnailer or a War Dog or something. If he healed more I could see some great synergy with Bastions or have him keep up with more Martyrdom, if he upkept a spell for free, basically anything added to his kit to really make him feel useful as a 2pt model. Compare him to Gorman (top 2pts, period) to the Book (in faction) to even staples like Vassals and he just doesn't quite pull his weight.

Special Mention: Best solo would've gone to Rorsh if this was playable by faction as opposed to in faction. That pig can do some crazy, crazy things.

[Hrimfaxi]

I'm like a gremlin, I shouldn't type anything after midnight. That's a wall for the Order to send paladins to protect.

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

Worst Solo: I really want to say Vassal Mechanik as it has always failed me, but I'll have to in good conscience say the Hierophant. While I detest the Mechaniks and their oh so horrible repair skill, I don't expect anything out of them and they at least die entertainingly. The Hierophant on the other hand is always sucking 2pts out of my lists for 1 focus a turn basically. He's kinda the worst caster attachment in the game that I can think of, I'd kill for Wishnailer or a War Dog or something. If he healed more I could see some great synergy with Bastions or have him keep up with more Martyrdom, if he upkept a spell for free, basically anything added to his kit to really make him feel useful as a 2pt model. Compare him to Gorman (top 2pts, period) to the Book (in faction) to even staples like Vassals and he just doesn't quite pull his weight.

Hoo boy.... this is a text book definition of why cross faction comparison is a bad idea. The Hierophant is great. Are there other warcaster/warlock attachments that would be better? Sure. Do we have access to those? No. But that doesn't mean he doesn't do awesome things for our warcasters, and lets us stretch our precious focus that much farther. I don't remember the last time I played a list that didn't have the Hierophant and Wracks in it for exactly that reason. I'll spend those two points every time, without hesitation.

[arkiboy]

Best Caster: eFeora
Worst Caster: High Reclaimer
Best Light Warjack: Redeemer
Worst Light Warjack: Repenter
Best Heavy Warjack: Reckoner
Worst Heavy Warjack: Scourge of Heresy
Best Unit: Exemplar Errants
Worst Unit: Deliverers
Best Solo: Nicia
Worst Solo: Vassal Mechanik

[Themainmenoth]

haha EFeora and redeemer go together like bread and butter i swear, haha

[tzeentchling]

Best caster - Harbinger. She can do everything. And she usually dies because I try to do too many of those things at once. But there's very little she doesn't have an answer for in one way or another.

Worst caster - Amon. Relies on a single gimmick to make him different/better than eFeora. Everything has to work on his one, feat turn. Has to play too far forward and is far too squishy.

Best heavy jack: Reckoner. 8 points and it does everything - ranged, combat, debuff, defense, spd 5 and reach.

Worst heavy jack: Castigator. I love the model, and in the right list it can work - but for 8 points, it's lackluster compared both to our other jacks and jacks in other factions.

Best light jack: Repenter. I like flamethrowers.

Worst light jack: Devout. Reach is nice, but it doesn't matter if I can't do decent damage with it. Shield guard is rarely useful.

Best unit: Daughters of the Flame, but only in lists that can buff their defense somehow. Unbuffed Daughters simply die too easily. Still, there's very little they can't do, and if they find those things they can redeploy quickly.

Worst unit: Cleansers. Sprays are good, but not at low Rat. The UA is of dubious usefulness. Immunity to fire is occasionally useful (other Protectorate, some Legion), but they have too low defensive stats and they don't explode anymore.

Best solo: Tie between the Vassal and the Covenant. They're both awesome.

Worst solo: Not really worst, but worst of our choices, probably the mechanic. If he auto-passed he'd be totally worth it, but at a single point I don't feel horrible when he doesn't.

[samytheth]

all this reclaimer hate is making me feel scared. i just got my got into menoth only for the reclaimer

[Silverstar843]

Samy, play who you like. I HATE Harbinger the most of every faction I play. Everyone I talk to looks at my cross-eyed when I tell them that. I was using Vindictus when he came out while people were saying he was awful and Harbinger was our best caster. All of a sudden, opinions started changing about him some time late last year.

Anyway, Best Caster to me is Thyra. She fixes so many problems I tend to have playing Menoth. Inaccurate infantry, easily assassinated casters, and threat ranges for the first strike.
IMO, the worst is (sorry Sam) High Reclaimer. He's just too easy to counter and without his feat or clouds, brings nothing to the table. Even pKreoss verses Kraye can still buff units, get rid of Upkeeps, has a crazy longer Control area, better stats, etc.
Best light for me is the Dervish. I love the *attack, I love the sidestep, and I love them with many of our casters.
Worst light to me is definitely the Devout. With shield guard being effectively removed from the game, this guy provides next to nothing.
Best Heavy Jack is the Reckoner. Avatar to me is too expensive to take every time, and this guy brings a gun and a debuff with him.
Worst heavy is the Castigator, it gets one more initial and one more inch of threat than the Vanquisher. Difference comes when you factor in a Vassal. Now all of a sudden that Vanquisher can charge with Thresh or just run and then the Vassal can make him shoot to clear some infantry. Castigator has to be 5" away for Combust.
Best unit is my Idrians. Worth the points, but often hard to justify, these little guys have ended more models than anything else for me save perhaps a Vanquisher.
Worst unit is a tough one, but I have to give the vote to Deliverers. Expensive with absolutely no defensive stats, inaccuracy, and against high armored armies, they will do very little. that said, I find the min unit to be more effective than the full one, strangely.
Best solo is the Vassal. Pure awesome.
Worst solo is tricky....my vote goes to a single Wrack when you've already pulled focus from a different one.

[Themainmenoth]

the reclaimer isn't that bad, but when weighed against the other casters he just doesn't pull a head, and Amon falls behind once the game gets larger because he's so jack oriented, but we almost don't have anyone better for mangled mettle other then maybe Reznik, but even he's second to Amon.

[jandrese]

Weird, I think Amon gets more interesting the larger the game gets. At 15 points there just isn't anything there to interest me, but at 75 points he can field a really killer army. He's just about the only guy in the game with a spell that actually scales upwards with game size. At higher point levels you can afford the killer battlegroup and all of the support you need to run that killer battlegroup, plus enough points left over for some screening troops.

I mean when you consider that a Max TFG + 2 full Choir + 2 Vassal + 2 Reclaimer + Wracks + Hierophant comes in at 21 points it's easy to see why you can't do it at 35 points, and how it's iffy at even 50.

It is a think of Beauty when you have a Vigilant charge 10" and then beat a Khador heavy to death with P+S 20 fists.

[Alzer]

Hmm, I could actually see that working for Amon. Now if only his model wasn't hideous...

It really is hard to come up with a worst-of in general for each of those. I don't really think we have a "worst" anything in any category, just models that we can't get working due to playstyle and such. I listed most of my worsts more as a lack of ability on my part to get them to work (Or in my Crusader's case, the dice just don't co-operate)

Also favorites are an ever-changing subject as well. It'd be interesting to see what I'll say about this topic in six months.

[Themainmenoth]

We do have the game's worst jack'marshals (it's a joke for those who don't get it, lol)

[Denied]

I'm having trouble expressing how much I disagree on your worst heavy and worst light choice. Redeemers and Templars are so money... but opinions are opinions!

I'd have to agree.
While i find Templars OK (Not awful) I've recently been enjoying two redeemers with PSevy (And i take one with EFeora) because they can lob out lots of AoEs at a rather high power every turn, and if they aim, they can actually hit stuff!

[LidlessPraetor]

Samy, play who you like. I HATE Harbinger the most of every faction I play. Everyone I talk to looks at me cross-eyed when I tell them that.

I"m with you Silverstar, should have known I wouldn't be the only Menite who thought that. Kudos to you for being willing to go out on a limb and say it: I've always kept my mouth shut. 10 Focus makes a lot of casters envious, but I find that her spell list is a little underwhelming...

As far as the High Reclaimer, I actually like him better than several of our other casters. I like to run an infantry-heavy list with him and use his soul tokens to fuel ashes-to-ashes. I also really like his feat... different strokes for different folks I guess

[Themainmenoth]

I think that she could use 1 more good offensive spell that doesn't require you to be so close to the target. I'd take arcane bolt for urcean sake.

[whitesox]

I'll bite

Best caster:
Harby - a very solid caster and makes what menoth do best even better closly followed by pSevvy... then a big gap to third place

Worst caster:
pFeora- what she does well we have other casters who does the same thing but even better

Best Light Warjack:
Repenter - 4pts for a model which gets a caster kill in 50% of the games I play, I do use pSevvy with two though

Worst Light 'jack:
Devout - too many points for protection, get good at positioning and save those points

Best Heavy jack:
Reckoner - 8pts for a jack which can do everything nuff said

Worst Heavy Jack:
Guardian - a heavy arc node? either go for a heavy or an arc node, an interesting model but in practice it doesnt cut it

Best unit:
Errants - self sac is probably one of the best abilities in the game, shuts down a lot of things such as warpath etc

Worst unit:
Deliverer sun burst crew

Best Solo:
Vassal

Worst solo:
Order of the fist

[loramer]

Can't resist a good listing...

Best caster: Harby. 10 focus + purification would be enough to put her as a good caster. Add in Awe, matrydom, cataclysm, auto-hit, no KD, fear of god and guided hand and you have to look at her in Awe. Top it all off with a great feat for board control and I think it's hard to find a caster that is better. Honorable mention goes to pSevvy.
Worst caster: Amon. He's a ton of fun to play, but I find it really hard to win with him. He's great on offense, but his defensive stats make him too vulnerable to play as aggressively as you want to run him. Synergy is a feat-like spell which somewhat makes up for his lackluster feat. Synergy can be a big trap if you plan your entire army around it, but can also be exceptionally powerful once it gets rolling.
Best heavy: Avatar. I think the Avatar is the best heavy in game, not just in faction, so this was an easy one for me. I have gotten more caster kills with the Avatar than with any other model. He can also be a huge pain to deal with when you buff him with something like DW or enliven. As for non-character heavies, I have to go with the Vanquisher. He is my anti-infantry and is about all the anti-infantry that I need.
Worst heavy: Scourge. All that is wrong with him has been talked about many times before so I will just leave it at that. As for non-character, guardian would be my choice. He's 1 point more than our other non-characters and he's not any better. You pay the extra point for the arc node, but he's a beatstick so you want him engaged...so now that extra point has just been wasted. He's good with Reznik because iron agression works well with crit pitch to let him hit things in melee and still be used as an arc node, but other than that, he's not worth his points.
Best light: Blessing of Vengeance. He's good with any caster and great with Sevvy. For non-character lights, it's a toss up for me of everything except...
Worst light: Revenger. For 1 point more you get the BoV which is at least 2 points better than the revenger - 3 if Sevvy is running him. I was shocked when I saw that people were ranking him as the best light.
Best Unit: Choir obviously. For something non-choir I would have to go with Bastions. Those buggers hit like trucks and just will not die easily.
Worst Unit: Cleansers. I have only proxied them once and do not own any, so I am running mostly off theorymachine for these guys, but they seem to be one of our least used units and I can understand why.
Best Solo: If you count battle engines as solos, then I would go with the Vessel. It is the best BE in game. I have no fear of other factions battle engines, and my opponents hate seeing mine across the table. It's got a ton of options that make it useful in every list I have brought it. If you don't count BEs as solos, then the Covenant. The good book has won me multiple games that I would probably have lost had it not been there. Walking it up to a spell slinger and saying no spells really puts a crimp in their plans, and the only 1 damage per attack really discourages opponents from picking on it.
Worst Solo: Exemplar Senny. Unless you can get your KEE behind a forest, he's just not worth bringing. There are always better options to spend those 2 points on.

[Themainmenoth]

first mention of the Crew! I was wondering what people thought of it, I guess it's near bottom of the list i guess, lol I don't own one myself, Just the regular deliverers.

[Marzuki]

Now this is all just from what I have heard from such folks as dicegod and FearMeMortals, but a Sunburst Crew in a Kreoss T4 list can be very effective.

first mention of the Crew! I was wondering what people thought of it, I guess it's near bottom of the list i guess, lol I don't own one myself, Just the regular deliverers.

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

first mention of the Crew! I was wondering what people thought of it, I guess it's near bottom of the list i guess, lol I don't own one myself, Just the regular deliverers.

The Sunburst is among the best light artilery in the game.

The Sunburst is among the worst units you can take in the protectorate.

[Snipafist]

Sure, why not - I'll go for it. I feel like I need to add the "just about everything is good with the right setup" provision, though. I'm still digging my way through the complexity of this faction and I'm always pleasantly surprised at what little gems I find every now and then.

Best caster:
pSevy. We have many good casters, but you can run nearly anything with pSevy and be happy with it. That says something. He's also great at making our staple - ranged jacks - even better.

Worst caster:
High Reclaimer. He just doesn't do anything for me interest-wise and he's dependent on one or two tricks. His theme list is awful, his control range is pathetic, his stats are mediocre. If I wanted to just run a brainless infantry brick at my foe and attrition him to death, I'd play eMadrak.

Best Light Warjack:
Repenter. It's getting cliche to love this guy, but I don't care. He's a solid use of 4 points and is very versatile.

Worst Light 'jack:
Devout. I'm not spending 5 points on a model with easily-ignored shield guard, extremely circumstantial and focus-dependent spell ward for my caster, and defensive strike (which is mediocre at best on a light jack) when I can get Repenters for one point less. I really don't care much for Revengers (arc nodes in general aren't big for most of our casters) and I'd run a Revenger before a Devout.

Best Heavy jack:
Vanquisher. Don't get me wrong, the Reckoner has a well-deserved reputation as a great toolbox heavy, but the Vanquisher's ability to reliably lay waste to the high defense low armor infantry scourge without being seriously threatened by them in return is amazing. The Vanquisher is actually a 10 point jack that comes with a free Vassal. When you can get a choirboy to buff him, he's not too shabby at finishing off enemy heavies either. MAT8 POW18 chain weapon is nothing to scoff at and the rarely-used Thresher without reach is mostly there to discourage foes from run-engaging him with mooks. The problem then becomes if the enemy only runs 1 or 2 models to engage him, he can easily step out of combat with minimal damage suffered, but if you send more, he will thresher them. He can also set targets that are immune to blast damage (Satyxis primarily, but several factions have access to Girded or quasi-Girded models) on fire, which largely gets around that means of denying us our AOE goodness. All this on top of being very focus efficient with the credible option of dumping a point or two on him to take out tough targets. He's amazing.

Worst Heavy Jack:
Castigator. He's just not much good unless you're running him with an Ignite caster that can also help speed him up a bit (eFeora, Reznik). In those cases, it's not so much that you get the best use out of those casters by using the Castigator, it's moreso that you get the best use out of the Castigator with those casters, who can bring our good jacks up to great rather than bring a poor jack up to good. Pass.

Best unit:
I'm ignoring choir for the sake of variety and throwing down for Temple Flameguard. They're a great cheap multipurpose unit with surprising survivability and good threat range. They rarely if ever let me down and are a great recipient unit for infantry buffs. We have many competitive infantry choices, but I reach for my TFG more than I do for any other non-Choir unit.

Worst unit:
Deliverers. In the AOE king faction, you have a unit that does the job pretty poorly, dies to a stiff breeze, is the same cost as the vastly better and more versatile Errants, and takes forever to resolve. Flameguard Cleansers are pretty poor, but at least they do something no other infantry unit in the army does - lay down Incinerate templates and occasionally unload with flamethrowers. The Deliverers compete with the harder-hitting, Choir-boostable, and more versatile Redeemer; the cheaper, shorter-ranged, but(with UA) more durable Zealots; and the far cheaper but less mobile Sunburst. This isn't even mentioning the upcoming Judicator. Deliverers are only worth using if you need a unit that can both move and fire with a 16" range and can get the job done with POW6 blast damage. Versus Mechanithrall swarms, I suppose they'd be ideal. That's about it, and our other choices can still handle those pretty well.

Best Solo:
Vassal is king of the support jack solos and because our faction is a jack faction, that earns him the "best solo" award.

Worst solo:
I'm having a hard time here because I've used all of our solos and liked them. I guess I'll say Allegiant. Not because he's bad - with the right caster (Harbinger, Vindictus), this guy can be a huge nuisance. It's just he doesn't work well with most of our casters.

[Silverstar843]

The Sunburst is among the best light artilery in the game.

The Sunburst is among the worst units you can take in the protectorate.

Both completely true. I change my vote for worst unit to this.

[Murphy's lawgiver.]

I really don't care much for Revengers (arc nodes in general aren't big for most of our casters)

Well I'm pretty sure we can argue a long time with this. A veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery long time.

Why so much hate on castigator? I know it's not anymore the truly good 'jack it used to be (goddamn charge rules) but it still have some thing we have on very fiew models in protectorate : two open fist. Definitely not a go-to 'jack, but it's not so horrible...

The Sunburst is among the best light artilery in the game.

The Sunburst is among the worst units you can take in the protectorate.

Oh yeah. Sunburst. I almost forget about these. Yeah, that's a truly horrible unit.

In the AOE king faction

There's only one aoe king, and his name is madhammer!!!!

[Snipafist]

Well I'm pretty sure we can argue a long time with this. A veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery long time.

I don't intend to make this a thread about arc nodes, but in general, only a few casters get a lot of use out of them. We mostly have good support spells (Defenders Ward, Ignite), a few debuff spells (Death Sentence, Fear of God), and some mediocre damage spells (plus Ashes to Ashes, which is difficult to rely on for such a high focus spell). Given that we're primarily a jack faction, all those spells have to compete for focus with our jacks (where a little focus can go a long way) or for camping (as we tend to have squisher than average warcasters). Given that most buff spells can be comfortably applied at the beginning of the game, you really only want/need an arc node if upkeep stripping is a problem in your meta AND your caster won't be nearby to reapply the buff spell him/herself OR if the unit you're buffing is likely to die and you'll need to reapply the buff to some other unit your caster won't be near (example: Defenders Ward on Daughters reapplied to Exemplar Errants after turn 2). Unless you're using Blessing of Vengeance to buff your damage spells, I very rarely find our blast spells worth using, so the arc node is not terribly useful for that. The focus goes a lot farther on our Choir-buffed jacks. Arc nodes are best used with debuffs, because you'll need to be close to an enemy unit to put a debuff on it and that is your caster's least favorite place to be. Debuffs also are basically a buff for every model that attacks that unit, so they're tremendously good. It is therefore no surprise that Cryx, a faction that tends to field few combat jacks, has above-average resiliency on many of their casters, and specializes in debuffs, tends to use arc nodes the most. You'll find Protectorate lists tend to include Blessing of Vengeance with pSevy and a Revenger with eSevy (and likely Kreoss3 too). All of these casters have debuffs and/or decent direct damage spells. You sometimes find a Guardian fielded with Reznik (opportunistic Perdition and/or cycling Ignite/Iron Aggression on jacks) or Harbinger (Fear of God) too. I didn't say you'll never find arc nodes used with Protectorate. It's just most of our casters don't really benefit much from them.

[Alzer]

The Vanquisher is actually a 10 point jack that comes with a free Vassal.

Truth. I've been trying to run Napalm Sam without the Vassal, and he still is a wrecking machine. But that Warjack attachment is just stupid good on the Vanquisher.

Really "worst of" among our Jacks isn't a black mark so much as an "It's good but not as good as." The same goes for our solos.

loaramer: I'm curious how not being the Character version makes the Revenger so awful? Revenger is top on my light-jack list, mayhaps because I haven't ever tried out Blessing of Vengence since I don't own either form of Severius and would rather use that 1pt for something like Wracks (which Reznik and Vindictus both more-or-less require). Though if I ever (See: when I) pick up Sevvy, I will be grabbing Blessing to go with him.

I don't really use my Revenger as an arc node a lot of the time. I use it as an absurdly tough thing to bother my opponent with. Unless I get a good charge lane to block with Rift.

I feel all the anti-guardian hate stems from the teeny tiny legs on the model. I've proxied it a few times, it's a solid jack, especially with Reznik (holy crap that thing loves Iron Aggression) It's just not Vanquisher/Avatar levels of stupid-good.

I'd like to put Wracks as the runner up for best solo. Because more focus.

[Vinsklortho]

Best Caster: Harbinger. She can do anything. She can run a boatload of infantry or she can run a jack wall. She has Crusader's Call and Guided Hand for helping melee but her feat and Purification are almost enough alone to allow her to run a really shooting heavy list. She can also run Pirates insanely well. She also has so many other useful abilities/spells that give her so much depth. She is a super star.

Worst Caster: On paper I'd rate Amon as our worst caster. He is a squishy caster who plays near the front with so many finnicky looking spells that I can't imagine them actually being terribly useful in play. Restricting that to casters I've actually played I would say Testament. He feels so squishy despite having a decent 14/16 stat line due to him playing close up and using so much of his focus. It also feels like Martyrdom is a situationally superior version of Revive when it comes to attrition in that Martyrdom replaces the place effect with a denial element and that is kind of his schtick other than his feat.

Best Light Warjack: The Repenter. It is cheap and has an amazing spray weapon.

Worst Light Warjack: The Revenger. I can only imagine one caster I'd want an arc node with so bad that I would take a light arc node instead of just paying for the Guardian and that caster I would rather take BoV with.

Best Heavy Warjack: The Reckoner. So much for so few points. I've actually built lists where I put in 2 Reckoners before I've even selected a caster.

Worst Heavy Warjack: The Castigator. The Vanquisher just seems to do everything better. I've even started using the Vanquisher for the eFeora Zealot trick officially costing the Castigator it's last remaining job in my lists.

Best Unit: Zealots. Errants may be more versatile, but Zealots always seem to completely botch someone's plan. I use them as a bodyguard for pFeora on feat turn, the Zealot trick with eFeora, combined with Harby's feat for a boat load of denial, pow 15 bombs under pSevvy, etc.

Worst Unit: Cinerators. They really only have one caster I like them with and even though the same can be said with Idrians I would say that Idrians are better with their caster(Testament) than Cinerators are with their's(Vindictus).

Best Solo: Vassal. Every one has already said a million times why Vassals are amazing.

Worst solo: Wracks. You grab the focus during your activation meaning you can't use it to upkeep spells or give it to Jacks. When you add in the issues with actually placing them in optimal places where they won't blow up your own army you end up with so much hassle for so little.

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

Worst solo: Wracks. You grab the focus during your activation meaning you can't use it to upkeep spells or give it to Jacks. When you add in the issues with actually placing them in optimal places where they won't blow up your own army you end up with so much hassle for so little.

They're one point. It's a free focus a turn for at least 3 turns. For one point. I think wracks are in contention for best​ solo.

[Vinsklortho]

They're one point. It's a free focus a turn for at least 3 turns. For one point. I think wracks are in contention for best​ solo.

I'd have to disagree. Its one point for one focus that you can only really use to either cast spells or sit on. That is good if you are playing a caster that casts their spells a lot, but I tend to play ones that upkeep spells and feed the rest of their focus to their jacks. Its a situational focus.

[tzeentchling]

Yeah, but I'd pay one point to increase my caster's armor by a point for 3 turns, with a decent chance that I'll be able to do that beyond those three turns. To me, that's completely worth it, even if I don't use it to cast a spell.

[Swordchucks]

I'm assuming that "Best" in this case refers to the choice you think would excel in the widest variety of situations and the "Worst" would be the option that would excel in the narrowest variety. I'm also going to include a third category, "Most Fun" for the models that, win or lose, contribute immensely to my enjoyment of the game.

Warcaster

Best: Grand Scrutator Severius. An all around amazing spell list, coupled with a top notch Focus stat and a strong feat make him an amazing toolbox with an answer to almost any situation. Best of all he can run any style of list and run it well. Sometimes he can even do it better then a caster that would specialize in that particular style.

Worst: I hate to say it but the High Reclaimer. He is pretty much a one trick pony and has no good answers for the large number of methods available to bypass that trick.

Most Fun: Feora, Priestess of the Flame. I love setting things on fire and nobody does it better. Also, Blazing Effigy may be favorite in-faction spell. I actually built an entire list around it and it was great fun.

Heavy Warjack

Best: Reckoner. What can I say that hasn't already been said? Simply put there is almost no situation that it can't contribute to in a meaningful way.

Worst: Vanquisher. I swear I'm not trolling when I say this. I can see how it should work, but it has never worked for me. Every AOE mine has put out has always scattered away from my opponents troops, and more then once has scattered back on my own guys vaporizing them. Worse still, after my ineffective shot, it tends to eat a charge from the troops it was trying to clear and get shredded.

Most Fun: Castigator. I love this jack. Auto fire, auto damage, two open fists, and combust. It just has so many ways of disrupting your opponent and causing a little chaos.

Light Warjack

Best: Repenter. It's a solid, no frills jack that, much like the Reckoner, it can offer a decent option in almost any situation. Much of that utility comes from it's excellent spray, but it can work just as well in melee against harder targets.

Worst: Redeemer. For pretty much the same reasons I gave for the Vanquisher. Those AOEs never go were I want them to.

Most Fun: Vigilant. Two open fists plus two shields plus a cheap point cost equals a model that is virtually unparalleled in holding a point or occupying a significantly more expensive model.

Unit
Best: Exemplar Errants. The tar pit other tar pits look up to. Especially when you factor in the UA. Whats more, they're already that high quality on their own, when you start factoring in support, they become a force to be reckoned with.

Worst: Deliverer Sunburst Crew. Again, it's those uncooperative AOE's limiting my ability to see a model's full potential.

Most Fun: Knights Exemplar. One of my favorite themes in the faction is the "strength in pain" theme that is embodied by our various Exemplar models. Also, few things are more fun then having that last "super" knight running around murdering things that are normally way outside his weight class.

Solo

Best: Covenant of Menoth. The book is arguably the best support piece in the game. It has a defensive support buff, a denial debuff, and an offensive buff, which means it always has a way of contributing. As an added bonus it is the most survivable support piece in the game.

Worst: Vassal Mechanik. For no other reason than it competes with the Wrack and that is almost always the better option.

Most Fun: Allegiant of the Order of the Fist. Shifting Sands coupled with Perfect Balance allows the Allegiant to embed himself deep into the enemies lines and cause all sorts of headaches for them. That combination of hard to hit and high mobility is tremendous fun. I've personally seen him tie up both a Woldwarden and the Lord of the Feast for three turns before forcing Baldur to come over and deal with him personally. Which was fine by me because that left him open for the assassination.

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

I'd have to disagree. Its one point for one focus that you can only really use to either cast spells or sit on. That is good if you are playing a caster that casts their spells a lot, but I tend to play ones that upkeep spells and feed the rest of their focus to their jacks. Its a situational focus.

I could never play casters like that. Upkeep and jack focus on a stick is boring boring boring. I like casting spells, and if I'm using an upkeep heavy caster then I like hot-swapping them. Wracks are absolutely indispensable, and other factions would kill to have them.

[Soulblighter]

Worst Caster: Vindictus
Worst Light: Redeemer
Worst Heavy: Scourge of Heresy/Castigator
Worst Unit: Deliverers
Worst Solo: Allegiant

Best Caster: eFeora
Best Light: Dervish
Best Heavy: Avatar/Reckoner
Best Unit: Errants
Best Solo: Vassal

[Murphy's lawgiver.]

Best Light: Dervish

Can i get argument for this please? It's not usual to see someone pick the Dervish for Best Light.

To Swordchuck : Two solutions : very, very unlucky with aoe's; or you lack good positioning with (i mean, setting your own troops on fire :/ )

[Themainmenoth]

The dervish is a Cygnar jack (-1 speed, but with side step that's easy to over look) and we're just mad at it that it has 1 less armor. Personally I love the little guy, yes he folds like a tin can, but he's so cheap you can field 8 of them and now they're far more annoying to kill.

[loramer]

loaramer: I'm curious how not being the Character version makes the Revenger so awful? Revenger is top on my light-jack list, mayhaps because I haven't ever tried out Blessing of Vengence since I don't own either form of Severius and would rather use that 1pt for something like Wracks (which Reznik and Vindictus both more-or-less require). Though if I ever (See: when I) pick up Sevvy, I will be grabbing Blessing to go with him.

Try out the BoV next time you reach for your revenger. The defensive strike helps keep it alive and running with its arc node intact, and bushwhack on an arc node is ridiculously good. Coupled with the repulsor shield, bushwhack lets your arc node not only get disengaged from whatever your opponent sent to tie it up, but also lets it move into that perfect position to lob spells at juicy targets.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the revenger...I just don't see the point of having one when you have access to BoV. I think we have the best selection of lights in the game. There isn't a bad one in the group really. But seeing as I needed to pick one, I went with the model that I never take because for just 1 point more I get a lot more use from my character arc node.



Thanks for starting up this thread Themainmenoth. I always enjoy seeing what others really like/dislike and some of this discussion has gotten me to rethink a few models. I know these type of lists have been done before, but I think our opinions change after time and it's good to have a listing like this every once in a while.

[jandrese]

I'd have to disagree. Its one point for one focus that you can only really use to either cast spells or sit on. That is good if you are playing a caster that casts their spells a lot, but I tend to play ones that upkeep spells and feed the rest of their focus to their jacks. Its a situational focus.

Better than spending 2 points for a focus you can only use to cast spells. At least with the Wrack focus you can buy attacks, boost, or sit on it for armor.

[Craaag]

Usually I can't disagree with opinion and wouldn't even try, an opinion is an opinion. In this case I have to state something to the OP, with all due respect of course. Redeemer worst light jack man come on! The Templar made me shake my head a little but the Redeemer? The only thing deliverer's do better than the Redeemer is...I'll get back to you on that lol.

21" threat range and being able to boost and having a choir to help the damage. Boosts are money learn to use them and you won't be randomly scattering 3" AOE's which is kind of an impractical use of all that range since the scatters can go pretty far.

Best light jack: Redeemer
Worst Light: Vigilant or Devout or Repenter (not sure)

Best Heavy: Avatar
Worst: Crusader (I know it's cheap and hits hard but spd 4 and no reach is abysmal)

Best unit: Errants
Worst: Deliverers

Best Warcaster: Kreoss1 (Feat A+ and spell list deals with alot of annoyances)
Worst: High Reclaimer (control area and focus stat meh)

Solo best: Vassal of Menoth
Worst: Vassal mechanic (fails skill check too much)

[Vinsklortho]

Better than spending 2 points for a focus you can only use to cast spells. At least with the Wrack focus you can buy attacks, boost, or sit on it for armor.

I'm not a big fan of either. I use the Heirophant almost exclusively with Harbinger and mostly for getting the d3 health back and I only really use Wracks with Thyra. I'd have rated the Reclaimer or Allegiant worst, but I don't want to rate something I have never played. I just never really feel like I have focus issues to the extent that I would rate our focus manipulation solos very highly.

[jandrese]

I'm not a big fan of either. I use the Heirophant almost exclusively with Harbinger and mostly for getting the d3 health back and I only really use Wracks with Thyra. I'd have rated the Reclaimer or Allegiant worst, but I don't want to rate something I have never played. I just never really feel like I have focus issues to the extent that I would rate our focus manipulation solos very highly.

I'm in the opposite boat. I almost always take the Wracks, and usually take a Hierophant if I can find a way. I never have enough focus to do what I want, especially with our newer casters (Vindictus, Thyra, and probably Kreoss3) that have some amazing spells but a fairly limited focus pool.

I even think the Reclaimer is a pretty killer solo, only hampered by its extreme squishiness.

[Alzer]

I'm with Janderese on the Wracks. I'm starting to almost crutch on them. I tend to play spell-casters (Vindictus, Reznik) though, so I want all the focus I can get and more. Heirophant is also nice to have around, but costs a point more. Reclaimers are wonderful, but draw fire almost as hard as a naked warcaster without a screen (and they should, nobody wants that Reckoner to be given three free focus!).

Ioramaer. Good point. I'll fanagle my list around to give Blessing a try. Defensive strike alone looks worth it. The only point I was confused on is how being the non-character version of the BEST jack in-faction makes Revenger the worst . Might be a good add to my light-jack list.

Then again Scourge is often regarded as our worst jack and it's a character version of what I consider to be out best...go figure. (Honestly I don't hate on Scourge, somehow I can get it to work, even though I can't get Crusaders to do the same)

Also for those of you not adding reasoning in your posts. Stop being borring! I wanna know why you think things are the best/worst. So I can tell you WHY you're wrong :P