Communication While playing a tournament game and stalling last round.

[infamousd]

This is the best way to handle the situation, your giving all the information to the player, and its up to them to use the rules, they are supposed to know, how to get around it.

[Ordrek]

West: You're right. The end of my post was judgmental and uncalled for. I'm sorry for posting it.

Pete: There is obviously a point after which further information/explanation will not assist someone in making a better choice due to limits in experience, tactical intelligence, or whatever. I want my opponent to have that level of information. If you do that with your opponents, we are attempting to handle this question in the same way.

That said, you cannot know someone's knowledge of the game by looking at them. I try to gauge it by giving an overview of the general mechanics of my list and give important specifics. After that you have to see what questions come up.

Example of initial disclosure: "My pVayl list softens you up and tries to force you to advance with long range shooting. When you get close, I increase the firepower with Vayl's buffs (explain Incite and Chiller) and often buy an additional round of shooting with Vayl's feat (explain Cat and Mouse) or move in for melee then fade back for a second alpha strike next round. Typhon tends to do a lot of the damage with its three sprays."

EDIT: I want to emphasize that I don't think anyone is breaking the rules or the spirit of sporting conduct by being tight-lipped. That is the game and your preparation for it is part of the intended competition. It is my personal choice to disclose more because I enjoy the game more that way and feel better about the win after (assuming I win).

[Heavygear]

You seem to have a very negative view of your opponents, and I can't help but wonder if a game against you would be an enjoyable experience at all. o.o;

The thing is none of my opponents that I have ever played ever, have gone beyond asking me to see the card or when I said I was casting/using X ability what exactly does that do? To which I answer by reading the card for them.

The common response we have for each other is Wow! That ability is great or really nasty. Its said and felt with enthusiasm and enjoyment, even if we are blindsided by it. We will also tend to remember it and learn by experience.

The fact that you are unwilling to do the same and then WHINE like a ninny when you lose because I out manuevered you tells me you are not the type of player I would ever want to play.

That isn't the issue. I don't expect you to have perfect knowledge of all the casters. That's kind of why we have the rules for each model sitting in front of us.

You are crying foul and cheat because I hand you my cards with the rules on them and expect you to figure out what synergies I might have instead of just explaining what synergies I will use in the game so you can intentionally AVOID them.

It is LAZINESS on your part not to have to think about it and have me spoon feed you my strategy/synergies throughout the game.

Sorry if it makes me a **** for not explaining to you how to beat my army during a tournament game.

[PG_petegrrrr]

That's pretty much it, Infamousd. I feel that no matter what happens, at least I gave my opponent every opportunity to see what I was/am doing and how it was done.

He can't yell at me for getting math wrong. I don't have to hide behind silly evasive language, I just hand over cards, explain any rules, and treat him with enough respect to assume he is both literate and knows the basic rules.

If this makes me a monster, at the very worst it makes me an giant, secretly nice on the inside Pixar style monster

[bouncymischa]

I've asked Mischa what his defence was and he said X, and gave me a look like i needed to ask more, but i ignored him and charged in, failing to kill his house guard because they have set defense. Was I mad at him? nope, he told them their defence, I didn't asked about charging or even mention charging. He also told me after the first guy charged, and let me just "Walk the rest into combat" seeing how my plan to get extra damage failed...

That said, not a beacon of sportsmanship... I often dance when my Sea Dog Crew makes a tough check, while singing, "Cant touch this".

Oh, Set Defense... I know Ivan's run afoul of that particular ability too. I've started to actually mention it when people ask me for the DEF of things like my Temple Flameguard with Defender's Ward on them -- "they're base DEF 13, DEF 15 with Defender's Ward, and DEF 17 against charges due to Set Defense" -- but that may be in part due to the fact that I like gloating about how they can get up to DEF 17. :P

And someday maybe I'll get to use Hyperion against your silly Sea Dogs, just so I can try to vaporize them!

[Murkhadh]

And wrong.

Which is why I answered the way I did. What's his max threat range? Well, technically in that scenario it could be as high as 16 and a half inches. (abuse+Charge+7 beat backs

So in your rush for a simple answer, you gave him potentially very wrong information, where as my way he has all the info he needs.

The point is not to hide info. That's silly and against the spirit of the game.

The point is to give them all the info they need in case you get it wrong, or you did bad math, or forgot a buff, so you don't accidentally pull a gotcha, as you demonstrated perfectly.

I don't play skorne and didn't know the exact numbers so I picked arbitrary numbers to prove the point

[PG_petegrrrr]

I don't play skorne and didn't know the exact numbers so I picked arbitrary numbers to prove the point

You did prove a point, it just wasn't yours

The point is, giving a hard number often doesn't give your opponent the full story or all the info they need.

Even if I had said 16.5 inches, leaving out beatback means he would have no idea that some of those inches didn't have to be in the same line, and that after charging I can move in completely different directions.

[infamousd]

..... I picked arbitrary numbers....

Wow I hope I don't play against you.... picking arbitrary numbers.... Nah just joshing you (and doing some journalistic like quoting). While I prefer your argument about giving them Raw data, I think its good pratice to offer your cards, book, what have you, so they can check your data for themselves.

And Mischa... Haven't played a lot of pirates since Gators... but once I get Gaellon, Challenge accepted.

[bouncymischa]

The thing is none of my opponents that I have ever played ever, have gone beyond asking me to see the card or when I said I was casting/using X ability what exactly does that do? To which I answer by reading the card for them.

The common response we have for each other is Wow! That ability is great or really nasty. Its said and felt with enthusiasm and enjoyment, even if we are blindsided by it. We will also tend to remember it and learn by experience.

The fact that you are unwilling to do the same and then WHINE like a ninny when you lose because I out manuevered you tells me you are not the type of player I would ever want to play.

That isn't the issue. I don't expect you to have perfect knowledge of all the casters. That's kind of why we have the rules for each model sitting in front of us.

You are crying foul and cheat because I hand you my cards with the rules on them and expect you to figure out what synergies I might have instead of just explaining what synergies I will use in the game so you can intentionally AVOID them.

It is LAZINESS on your part not to have to think about it and have me spoon feed you my strategy/synergies throughout the game.

Sorry if it makes me a **** for not explaining to you how to beat my army during a tournament game.

*laughs* Wow, have you ever actually played against me? I can't tell what your location is, so I'm not sure if you're in my area or not... XD

Judging from your response, though, I'm guessing you didn't bother to actually read the much longer post I wrote in response to petegrrrr's reply to my own and other posts, elaborating on my point of view and the perspective I made my comment from. Instead, you unfortunately appear to have made the kind of extreme and knee-jerk reaction I mentioned in my post as being disappointed and characterized by the sort of hyperbole that even petegrrrr mentioned was appearing in various posts in this thread.

Do I expect someone to spoon-feed me a victory, or hold my hand through the game? Not at all. On the other hand, given my relative lack of experience, I see no real harm in asking an opponent how a particular combo I've heard of but never seen works, or for information that might actually help give them a more interesting/challenging game rather than a one-sided roflstomp on the way to the top.

On the other hand, judging from the tenor of your post, you appear to have very strong feelings about even an inexperienced player who may ask questions about the capabilities of your models during the game. At the very least, you seem to be quite willing to make assumptions about people given a relative lack of context. I'll admit, reading petegrrrr's post I may well have misjudged him, but at least I did go back and attempt to explain my point of view at length and present a more moderate position.

[West996]

I can't help but wonder how you'd feel playing against me, who only gets to play perhaps one day every two months, and often those are just Steamroller events, with lists I may have made up the week before and never even practiced with. X3

I'd be happy to play against you.

I'd answer any of your questions to the best of my knowledge and you would be provided with my cards should your questions get to vague.

But you have to admit, your coming a competitive environment with limited experience and practice. If you went to a martial arts tournament with the same frequency of practice I think it would be less forgiving.

I'd be happy to teach you everything I know in a casual environment. I just think it is a little unfair of you to expect me to anticipate all your questions.

The posters on this thread are saying that I should not only answer your direct questions I should offer up any information I think you MIGHT need including basic rules like the 'push' ability on a WarJack.

If I am to assume you don't even know the basics, (which I don't for you personally I am speaking generally now.), am I to walk you through every step of the game? Where is the line? I'm all for a friendly hobby, but this is a tournament here.

As I said, I will be a helpful and gracious opponent. But I'm not there to teach you how to play..

[hausdorff space]

The posters on this thread are saying that I should not only answer your direct questions I should offer up any information I think you MIGHT need including basic rules like the 'push' ability on a WarJack.

I could be wrong, I've only skimmed through the two pages between my previous two posts, but I don't think anyone is saying that.

I think the pro- "open discourse" side of the thread are saying that just brushing off answers by handing cards is a bit evasive, and that if the information is freely available it doesn't hurt the game for you to just say it. i.e. while you don't need to go into super detail, there's little reason not to be specific in your answer and open to such questions.

Whereas the anti- "open discourse" side makes the assumption that that then requires you to detail everything for your opponent. And (in some cases) that informing their opponent of what their army is capable of is giving their opponent an unfair advantage.

[Cambeul]

I am going to lean towards Petergrr on this.

Generally when I play a game, casual, tourney and everything in between. I ask my opponent if he needs to know anything about my army, and if he wants to see my cards, as well as I will ask to see his cards and maybe ask questions of his units/caster/jacks etc..

If during the game he asks what is that models Stat, I will tell them what is the CURRENT stat, as well as any buffs/modifiers that they currently have. If they ask is there any way I can increase/decrease that I will also let them know as well.

But I probably will not go and:
Well after Mortenembrah and her Skarlock cast Terminal Velocity as well as Overrun allowing my one Warjack to move another Warjack around your defenders, who will then have a bonus of charging your flank at a extended Range because you are a living model and eat you for breakfast.
Actually I may have told people that in the past, I just say my Deathjack can touch you from 17.5" away (or some number that escapes me atm).

I do not ask my opponent what his end game strategy is, and I do not expect them to ask me, I find the best way of learning is by having it happen to you and to remember not to do it again.

[Murkhadh]

You did prove a point, it just wasn't yours

The point is, giving a hard number often doesn't give your opponent the full story or all the info they need.

Even if I had said 16.5 inches, leaving out beatback means he would have no idea that some of those inches didn't have to be in the same line, and that after charging I can move in completely different directions.

/sighs


so say

"its 16.5 inches and he has beatback."


The point remains un-changed.

[Sinsation]

You know, it seems like a secondary moral of this thread is trying to skirt threat ranges is going to run you into trouble.

[Hasten]

/sighs


so say

"its 16.5 inches and he has beatback."


The point remains un-changed.

Again though, is the burden on the Skorne player to explain the very critical nuances of how Beat Back can be used? What if Hyper Aggressive comes into play? Counter-charge? There's a whole lot of non-linear moving and Push effects going on, and those are just the rules on the card, let alone things like Leash or Admonition. Just stating a 16.5" number (or whatever) is likely to make the other player feel cheated when you counter-charge an enemy trooper, then beat back through several models to eat something important. But the flip side is that explaining all the various ways the Bronzeback might move will be both time consuming and (I personally think) be beyond the scope of a tournament game. That's why I'd rather see the card, because then it's on me to understand the interactions, and I have all the information to do it. Now, if after handing an opponent the card and saying something like "Well he's SPD 4, and I have access to Rush and he can cast Beat Back on himself to get some extra range, plus his passive rules, as you can see," my opponent wants an explanation of exactly how some of them might interact so that he/she feels comfortable in their understanding of the cards? Sure, no problem. There's no "hiding the ball" or devious dry-washing of the hands going on, or any cackling*. It's just that the fairest way to exchange the information is to allow the opponent access to the precise wording of the card, not a hand-waving number, where I may forget certain interactions like Counter Charge. That seems to be Pete's attitude, from what I've read of his posts, and I think it's a good one.

-H

*Well, ok, maybe some cackling, unrelated to rules "gotchas", since I'm fielding a Bronzeback. They're cackle-worthy in their own right =).

[PG_Pyrodude32]

so say

"its 16.5 inches and he has beatback."


The point remains un-changed.

Actually - I think petegrrr made a great point. I know people have asked me before what my models threat range is and I just rail off 7.5 inches (Khador player who loves to use a Juggernaut). Then come around to my turn I remember - hey I'm using a caster with Boundless Charge. Ooops (then I end up purposely not using the ability on that turn - which is EXTREMELY frustrating. Handicapping yourself just because an ability slipped your mind is very cumbersome but you do it so that you don't punish the other person because you gave them wrong information)

Its not your job as a player to go through all of your tactics and spells and abilities for your opponent and then spoon field your opponent the information. I've done that in games before and never ask my opponent a question - and what usually ends up happening is that I end up beating myself. I end up revealing all of the counters to my own army and my opponent ends up playing essentially a perfect game. When I just give them stat information and let them look at my cards the games are generally much closer - this is an example of player skill. Its not your job as a player to make it where your playing against your opponent AND yourself.

Now I don't hide information from my opponent - I give them my cards, i'll rattle off stats for them. If they ask me do I have any abilities that increase my threat range - i'll say yes and list off Boundless charge (and any other that I might have), but its not my job to add up the abilities effects for my opponent. (Speed) +3 + (melee range) + (speed buff) = threat range; is not a complicated equation and it is in; no way shape, form, or fashion, mean to have your opponent do the math in his or her head.

[West996]

You know, it seems like a secondary moral of this thread is trying to skirt threat ranges is going to run you into trouble.

I think you're right. If the major concern here is over threat ranges they say so instead of trying to make it into a general argument. Otherwise you get people using examples like

"As I was about to place my caster my opponent reminded me I could get an extra inch by pushing my beast."

To me that is on a whole other level then trying to be precise over threat ranges.

If some one asks me how far a certain model can charge, I'm not just going to hand them my cards. I will do my best to explain to them how far he can charge and any models that can effect that.

There is just still always a gray area I think. I mean how do you prepare a player for a bulldoze charge? How often do I remind him my Jack has pathfinder? How often do I remind a player Terminus can fly? How do I prepare a player for the excarnate bloat thrall launcher?

Do I only answer pointed questions? Do I try and prevent a player from making a mistake? How do I do that with out crossing the line of telling him how to play or being annoying.

What if it looks like he is forgetting about one of my abilities but he is baiting me into using and planning on taking the hit?

You see it gets pretty complicated when you are trying to be that helpful instead of just handing over your cards, explaining the questions you are asked and trusting you know what you're doing.

[Hasten]

<Good post that I agree with>
...
If some one asks me how far a certain model can charge, I'm not just going to hand them my cards. I will do my best to explain to them how far he can charge and any models that can effect that.
...
<The rest of the good post that I agree with>

Right, that may have gotten lost in my rambling about the Bronzeback. In simple cases, like "How far can that Savage charge?" when I don't have any strange movement issues going on (playing Skorne, I frequently do have strange movement issues going on), I have no problem saying "15 inch threat range with Rush and Abuse".

It's when things get more complex, and in WM/H they frequently do, that I think it's fairer for both players to give the precise wording and abilities on the card.

-H

[PG_petegrrrr]

Actually - I think petegrrr made a great point. I know people have asked me before what my models threat range is and I just rail off 7.5 inches (Khador player who loves to use a Juggernaut). Then come around to my turn I remember - hey I'm using a caster with Boundless Charge. Ooops (then I end up purposely not using the ability on that turn - which is EXTREMELY frustrating. Handicapping yourself just because an ability slipped your mind is very cumbersome but you do it so that you don't punish the other person because you gave them wrong information)

Its not your job as a player to go through all of your tactics and spells and abilities for your opponent and then spoon field your opponent the information. I've done that in games before and never ask my opponent a question - and what usually ends up happening is that I end up beating myself. I end up revealing all of the counters to my own army and my opponent ends up playing essentially a perfect game. When I just give them stat information and let them look at my cards the games are generally much closer - this is an example of player skill. Its not your job as a player to make it where your playing against your opponent AND yourself.

Now I don't hide information from my opponent - I give them my cards, i'll rattle off stats for them. If they ask me do I have any abilities that increase my threat range - i'll say yes and list off Boundless charge (and any other that I might have), but its not my job to add up the abilities effects for my opponent. (Speed) +3 + (melee range) + (speed buff) = threat range; is not a complicated equation and it is in; no way shape, form, or fashion, mean to have your opponent do the math in his or her head.

Just Call me "Reverse Andre The Giant", because My Way is VERY sportsmanlike

[niceas]

If asked about my threat ranges, if it is a new player in a casual game, I go through the full gamut of what I can do.

If it is not a new player, I simply respond with "That model has speed x printed on the card."

But then again I play Circle - so shenanigans is what we do. After all, when an opponent asked about what the charge range of my feral warpwolf was, I simply responded "The printed speed on the card in the statline is 6." He wisely asked to see the card.

[Murkhadh]

Actually - I think petegrrr made a great point. I know people have asked me before what my models threat range is and I just rail off 7.5 inches (Khador player who loves to use a Juggernaut). Then come around to my turn I remember - hey I'm using a caster with Boundless Charge. Ooops (then I end up purposely not using the ability on that turn - which is EXTREMELY frustrating. Handicapping yourself just because an ability slipped your mind is very cumbersome but you do it so that you don't punish the other person because you gave them wrong information)

Its not your job as a player to go through all of your tactics and spells and abilities for your opponent and then spoon field your opponent the information. I've done that in games before and never ask my opponent a question - and what usually ends up happening is that I end up beating myself. I end up revealing all of the counters to my own army and my opponent ends up playing essentially a perfect game. When I just give them stat information and let them look at my cards the games are generally much closer - this is an example of player skill. Its not your job as a player to make it where your playing against your opponent AND yourself.

Now I don't hide information from my opponent - I give them my cards, i'll rattle off stats for them. If they ask me do I have any abilities that increase my threat range - i'll say yes and list off Boundless charge (and any other that I might have), but its not my job to add up the abilities effects for my opponent. (Speed) +3 + (melee range) + (speed buff) = threat range; is not a complicated equation and it is in; no way shape, form, or fashion, mean to have your opponent do the math in his or her head.

If you can't remember your own abilities, with the cards in front of you and the ability to look at them any time day or night since you own them, expecting your opponent to pick it all up at a glance is probably asking a bit much.

[Sinsation]

If you can't remember your own abilities, with the cards in front of you and the ability to look at them any time day or night since you own them, expecting your opponent to pick it all up at a glance is probably asking a bit much.

That's a hell of an assumption. Not even including the day or night part, you can't even assume people have had the cards for more than 10 minutes before the tournament.

[West996]

If you can't remember your own abilities, with the cards in front of you and the ability to look at them any time day or night since you own them, expecting your opponent to pick it all up at a glance is probably asking a bit much.

No one said that.

My opponents have full access to my cards any time they want, just as I do. Heck, if my opponent asked me if he could keep my cards on his side of the table I wouldn't care.

[Hasten]

If you can't remember your own abilities, with the cards in front of you and the ability to look at them any time day or night since you own them, expecting your opponent to pick it all up at a glance is probably asking a bit much.

Personally, I think that showing up to a tournament with minimal familiarity with some of the more popular options from other factions, and expecting my opponent to give me an explanation of how he or she plans to employ their army is asking a bit much. This is just my opinion, of course, but I think that in a competitive environment the obligation is on you to be at least somewhat prepared. It's not like this info is too hard to come by, either in forums or the books/cards themselves.

On the other hand, if you are at least fairly familiar with what the bronzeback (for instance) does, then reading the card should be enough to stir your memory.

-H

[Wishing]

This thread is basically all about what you should answer when someone asks you a question about what your models can do. Personally, what I am getting from this though is perspective from the other side of the table.

That perspective being: Don't ask questions about what your opponent's stuff can do!

The thing is, I agree with Pete and West entirely, in that the only information each player should have access to is what is on the cards. Essentially, the cards for an army create a big tapestry of rules describing what stuff can do. Each player should have full access to view their opponent's tapestry at all times. However, asking "what is this model's threat range?" is the same as asking "please highlight for me what areas of your tapestry are of interest to me when it comes to working out where it is safe for me to stand". And this "highlighting" is really something you are supposed to work out yourself, since what parts of the tapestry are relevant and which aren't at any given time will vary and be relative.

However, I am a friendly person and I like chatting to the friends I play with, so if they were to ask me, I would of course answer as fully as I could, including anything I thought might be useful for them to know. However, I would feel awkward about it, because in the back of my head I would be going "did I explain enough? or did I explain too much?"

I feel that the game is written and developed based on an assumption that everyone has access to all the rules for everything in their head at all times. With this in mind, you should never ask your opponent what their stats are or what their threat range is - just ask to see the cards or the rulebook. This is how the game is meant to be played. Part of the challenge and fun of the game is putting the pieces of the puzzle of special abilities together in your head yourself. Only ask your opponent to summarise and run things through for you if you are specifically playing a tutorial game, where the purpose is learning and not competition.

If people just stop asking for summaries of what their opponent's models can do, then we avoid the unpleasant problem of what the opponent should answer entirely.

[Murkhadh]

No one said that.

My opponents have full access to my cards any time they want, just as I do. Heck, if my opponent asked me if he could keep my cards on his side of the table I wouldn't care.

Yes, someone said that, its in what I quoted.

[bouncymischa]

If people just stop asking for summaries of what their opponent's models can do, then we avoid the unpleasant problem of what the opponent should answer entirely.

After reading this, an odd thought occurred to me. Many of the people posting in this thread have commented that they would freely discuss what their army could do and is capable of in a casual setting, but refrain from doing so in a competitive one, and I couldn't help but wonder "Why would I even want to participate in a competitive event, then?" I would appear to lose out on a certain amount of social interaction and friendliness, and the only benefit is a chance at a hunk of metal that'll sit on my shelf and/or bragging rights I couldn't really care less about. X3

That may be why the prospect of travelling to any of the big gaming conventions never really appealed to me...

[HRM]

This thread reminds me of why I'll likely never do tournaments. I'm WAY too dumb for this game - I can't even remember my OWN models' abilities; remembering what every model in the game can do (like some people can) would be an exercise in futility.

[PG_Pyrodude32]

If you can't remember your own abilities, with the cards in front of you and the ability to look at them any time day or night since you own them, expecting your opponent to pick it all up at a glance is probably asking a bit much.

This is a pretty asinine statement. Maybe - just maybe i'm busy paying attention to what my opponent is doing and thinking of ways to counter all of the moves that he's made - and thinking ahead of what I want to do on my turn. Do not assume that I am ignorant about any of my models at all. I can essentially quote you the entire Khador book - which should give you an idea about how much I play this game and about what kind of a passion I have for this game. Guess what i'm human and I do forget things from time to time - like if a particular caster has boundless charge or not at a particular moment in time. Guess what its not my responsibility to spoon feed them the information either - i'm sorry that you feel insulted that your opponent isn't telling you every spell and ability he has access to. Your there to play a game - not have a sit down and discuss every ability on every model. Your a grown-up - I hope that you have a capability to read your opponents cards. Its not like no one is keeping them from you.

Now if you want to have a conversation instead of trying to insult my mental prowess then by all means lets have a conversation. Assuming that I am ignorant is not the way to go about it

[Ordrek]

Actual situation that occurred in a game I played:

Opponent playing Cryx activates a bone jack and is studying the space around Typhon which is also near my caster and declares the bone jack is running. Typhon's model is facing at a right angle and the bone jack has enough movement to end up on either side of Typhon if he moves around some obstacles nearby. The bone jack has an active arc node. The opponent asks/states "Typhon doesn't have Reach, does he?"

Now here's the thing- Typhon does NOT have reach, but he DOES have circular vision, which means if he moves into what appears to be Typhon's back arc (which doesn't exist for Typhon), he cannot channel spells. My opponent probably asked the reach question to avoid a free strike, but didn't seem aware of the circular vision.

I told him that Typhon does not have Reach. He began measuring a path to right behind Typhon within melee range, at which point I warned him about Circular Vision and no channeling in melee and let him adjust his movement.

What would you have done in this situation, assuming a competitive environment?

[Wishing]

After reading this, an odd thought occurred to me. Many of the people posting in this thread have commented that they would freely discuss what their army could do and is capable of in a casual setting, but refrain from doing so in a competitive one, and I couldn't help but wonder "Why would I even want to participate in a competitive event, then?" I would appear to lose out on a certain amount of social interaction and friendliness, and the only benefit is a chance at a hunk of metal that'll sit on my shelf and/or bragging rights I couldn't really care less about. X3

I think this is a tricky topic to discuss, but to me there is nothing whatsoever unfriendly about playing competitively. The reason for playing competitively is that it makes the game more exciting, to feel a rush because you are planning to go in and do your very best. More excitement should result in more fun, and this fun is meant to be shared between the two players, creating a great social feel of camraderie with your opponent. But part of the "do your very best" attitude is, to me at least, taking responsibility for your actions to the extent that you check yourself on the cards what your opponent's cards can do, rather than asking your opponent to feed you the information.

[Reuben]

Me personally, I frequently forget all the various interactions of my own stuff. I don't want to handicap myself later if I forget something, and I don't want to convey inaccurate information my opponent relies on. So if my opponent asks "What's that models speed" I'll tell them. If they ask a question like "what's your maximum threat range" I'll hand over my cards. There are too many rules interactions in this game to exhaustively list every possible interaction.

[Wishing]

I told him that Typhon does not have Reach. He began measuring a path to right behind Typhon within melee range, at which point I warned him about Circular Vision and no channeling in melee and let him adjust his movement.

What would you have done in this situation, assuming a competitive environment?

I agree with this course of action. Once he has declared his intent to move and channel a spell, I would also inform him when he is about to move into a space where he cannot do this. The game assumes that he knows this and therefore doesn't move his model into a totally illogical place. The game is more enjoyable that way to me.

[ShockwaveIIC]

Actual situation that occurred in a game I played:

Opponent playing Cryx activates a bone jack and is studying the space around Typhon which is also near my caster and declares the bone jack is running. Typhon's model is facing at a right angle and the bone jack has enough movement to end up on either side of Typhon if he moves around some obstacles nearby. The bone jack has an active arc node. The opponent asks/states "Typhon doesn't have Reach, does he?"

Now here's the thing- Typhon does NOT have reach, but he DOES have circular vision, which means if he moves into what appears to be Typhon's back arc (which doesn't exist for Typhon), he cannot channel spells. My opponent probably asked the reach question to avoid a free strike, but didn't seem aware of the circular vision.

I told him that Typhon does not have Reach. He began measuring a path to right behind Typhon within melee range, at which point I warned him about Circular Vision and no channeling in melee and let him adjust his movement.

What would you have done in this situation, assuming a competitive environment?

Answered that he does not have reach.

The thing is, I agree with Pete and West entirely, in that the only information each player should have access to is what is on the cards. Essentially, the cards for an army create a big tapestry of rules describing what stuff can do. Each player should have full access to view their opponent's tapestry at all times. However, asking "what is this model's threat range?" is the same as asking "please highlight for me what areas of your tapestry are of interest to me when it comes to working out where it is safe for me to stand". And this "highlighting" is really something you are supposed to work out yourself, since what parts of the tapestry are relevant and which aren't at any given time will vary and be relative.

I like this part.

[West996]

Actual situation that occurred in a game I played:

Opponent playing Cryx activates a bone jack and is studying the space around Typhon which is also near my caster and declares the bone jack is running. Typhon's model is facing at a right angle and the bone jack has enough movement to end up on either side of Typhon if he moves around some obstacles nearby. The bone jack has an active arc node. The opponent asks/states "Typhon doesn't have Reach, does he?"

Now here's the thing- Typhon does NOT have reach, but he DOES have circular vision, which means if he moves into what appears to be Typhon's back arc (which doesn't exist for Typhon), he cannot channel spells. My opponent probably asked the reach question to avoid a free strike, but didn't seem aware of the circular vision.

I told him that Typhon does not have Reach. He began measuring a path to right behind Typhon within melee range, at which point I warned him about Circular Vision and no channeling in melee and let him adjust his movement.

What would you have done in this situation, assuming a competitive environment?

It is a good example because the circular vision certainly may not be a well known thing. To be honest though I am not sure I would have been intuitive to know what he planned. I would have thought by the question he was trying to avoid a free strike or something. When it came down to him trying to channel in my melee range I would have mentioned the rule and then allowed him to take back or adjust his movement.

Not as smooth I will admit, but what do you think is more memorable. Being told prior to movement, or being told when you are about to channel and told you can't. Then being given the opportunity to correct it.

In this example though you are giving the player information so that he can carry out an action you have deduced he is trying to do, so you're helping him with his movement so he doesn't screw himself over by a rule he might not have known to ask about.

This is different then a player asking you how not to be threatened by his models. Or especially even how to warn a player against potential threats they might have next turn with out them asking. (eg. Excarnate Bile Thrall)

I'm going out now but I'll try to think of some specific examples to ask how you would handle them.

[Tyr852]

When he asked if he had reach I would have given him Typhoon's card and said this is what he does as he clearly isn't familiar with the model that he is trying to skirt around. What he chooses to do after that is his own accord.

I ask for cards all the time though as mistakes happen either in recollection or understanding of the card , I'm of the personality though that I like knowledge and understanding of things and it baffles me on some level how people will go in to things blind and hope that others will guide them in competitive play.

[Triumph Of Man]

Actual situation that occurred in a game I played:

Opponent playing Cryx activates a bone jack and is studying the space around Typhon which is also near my caster and declares the bone jack is running. Typhon's model is facing at a right angle and the bone jack has enough movement to end up on either side of Typhon if he moves around some obstacles nearby. The bone jack has an active arc node. The opponent asks/states "Typhon doesn't have Reach, does he?"

Now here's the thing- Typhon does NOT have reach, but he DOES have circular vision, which means if he moves into what appears to be Typhon's back arc (which doesn't exist for Typhon), he cannot channel spells. My opponent probably asked the reach question to avoid a free strike, but didn't seem aware of the circular vision.

I told him that Typhon does not have Reach. He began measuring a path to right behind Typhon within melee range, at which point I warned him about Circular Vision and no channeling in melee and let him adjust his movement.

What would you have done in this situation, assuming a competitive environment?

Answered that he doesn't have reach and left it at that.

If it were me making the mistake I'd only blame myself for not knowing Typhon's rules in the end, nor would I take back the move after or even want you to warn me in the first place. It's my game, my strategy and therefore my mistakes to make and then adapt and correct for elsewhere. Page 5, no whining.

[2LiveIs2Die]

So intentionally leaving out information is an acceptable way to win since your opponent "should know how to ask a question correctly"?
Seems more like you aren't a very good player and you should probably play more openly and stop trying to get got-cha wins.

[zor]

So intentionally leaving out information is an acceptable way to win since your opponent "should know how to ask a question correctly"?
Seems more like you aren't a very good player and you should probably play more openly and stop trying to get got-cha wins.

Agreed. Some of the best competitive players in this game also happen to be some of the most open and relaxed players. Being a jerk may win you a couple games but its going to be hard to have anyone to play against after a while. It isn't about holding someone's hand through the game by telling them your threat ranges.
Some people need to get over themselves...

[watchgeorgerock]

Saddest thing about this thread is that talking about this issue wont change the way people play. You think people are playing for actual money and not a little coin. I guess 90% to 99% of the players I know and have played against don't play this way. So there is hope that last 10% will figure it out.