The Avenger - a flawed Jack?

[Sacredsouless]

errr.....the model that suffers the initial hit is Directly hit, the rest under the template are just "hit" as I recall.

[Pydracor]

Yes, that's right. So if I'm not mistaken, a dude-marshalled Avenger shooting with a Thunderbolt shot and directly hitting it's target, will cause everything under the template to get kd AND to be pushed 1d3".
IIR the ruling on the dude-marshalled Mule correctly, you can even choose to first kd and then push or vice versa. No idea when this might be of use, but well, it's noteworthy

[Calibre]

I take it that the 1d3 move, moves away from the Avenger in any order and not away from the impact or the blast like the mule's effect?

[vintersbastard]

I take it that the 1d3 move, moves away from the Avenger in any order and not away from the impact or the blast like the mule's effect?

Away from the attacker (the Mule works the same, though).

[Ikras]

The earthquake comes from PStryker the Avenger Eartquake shot is off one of the other KD units to chain back and get other targets with the KD...... I dont see how post 26 is relevant? I could be off?

I think that he might have read it as I did the first time round and thinking that you were saying shoot the pod with the gun for the knockdown rather than hit it with the spell. I do like the idea of your combo though and look forward to giving it a try some time.

[Nightrunner]

Aim Bonus
Ranger Bonus
Deadeye
Master gunner
Boost (From the dude or FOC from caster/Strangeways)
Temporial Barrier
Black oil

Those are just the bonuses I can think of without pre-knocking down the target and then pushing the KD target into place to hit it with the Avenger.

Yeah, I can see what you mean - but I just find rangers (in particular) a big point-sink to try and get a RAT boost, although I usually aim to push the target into place before going for the AOE knockdown.

Im also going to try and give him a run in my Kraye list, where I'm hoping the P&S18 blade will come in handy as an extra deterrent to my centurion.

Going back to the OP, I think that being on the centurion frame makes this jack a little less than great - on the ironclad chassis, it would be a real monster, although I can see it costing more than 9pts in that case!

NR

[Doctor Lucky]

I also had one on Jr during a game of eHaley vs Mortenebra. On an extremely good turn (for me), eHaley successfully arc'd Domination onto a Slayer, which then about-faced and punched Morty, followed by the Slayer then getting shot in the back by the Avenger. Unfortunately, Morty had Steady, but my point still stands that, in theory, the Avenger can be the most valuable gun in your list when applied to the correct scenario, and with TA it's goddamn scary.

Do models under Domination still count as "enemy" models? I'm sure they don't count as friendly anymore from your opponent's POV.

[TKaz84]

IIRC as soon as the dominated jack makes its attack it reverts to its normal state.

[vintersbastard]

Do models under Domination still count as "enemy" models?

Not while they're being dominated (they become friendly, actually); but the spell ends immediately after the attack is finished, so that's not a problem.

[PG_oninofro]

Admittedly I haven't had a chance to run the Avenger on a table but I'm very intent on running the following:

P.Stryker
SwordKnights (Arcane Shield)
+UA
.Marshalled Avenger (Snipe)
(Other stuff)

Pronto the Avenger forward then move the SKs on a flank.
Advance (or stand still for the +2 Aiming bonus) and boost the shot.

Yup it's all theory but I'm sure it will work reasonably well.

[JohnOSpencer]

Seems like it could be ok...as long as you take Runewood. I hate having a jack that expensive knocked down, especially when I want to pronto it up the field.

[Rochr]

You can't give a KD on hit RAT6, it would make it an auto include in pretty much every 50p list. As it is Gun Mages and Master Gunner will do enough for this thing as it is. Deadeye will make it really disgusting.

[King-of-Storms]

I've conducted another experiment with the Avenger and honestly if you want to know the truth its low RAT is nothing. Cygnar has so much ranged buffs it's silly.

Honestly if you're so worried about its low RAT then use it purely as a beat stick like some are suggesting. I think it's best used in a combined arms approach just like the Defender. Hit them from range then if necessary clobber them in melee and on charge if possible.

In my opinion the Avenger is better suited against Cyrx armies to knock down those squirmy bonejacks and helljacks. Set 'em up then knock 'em down.

[Icepick28]

I read the entire rest of this thread in R. Lee Ermey's voice thanks to you.

As did I!! I have soo many uses for the aveneger, its not even fair. The gun will be brutal with pStryker with the ability to gain extra range with snipe (plus also help KD tons of targets), get extra movement and shots thanks to the Haleys, pNemo and eNemo can make him a force to be feared, caine has a heavy who can KD the front line so he can shoot past them, Siege...O the carnage, etc. Yeah...thats why I ordered three of the plastic kits.

[MathPasta]

Seriously. Look at the Destroyer. Then at the avenger. Then back at the Destroyer. Point out Range 14. Remember snipe.

You should not be complaining.

[sleet01]

"I'm the Destroyer your Destroyer could smell like."

[dbgoldberg323]

Seriously. Look at the Destroyer. Then at the avenger. Then back at the Destroyer. Point out Range 14. Remember snipe.

You should not be complaining.

Hello, MathPasta. Look at your Destroyer's gun, now back to my Avenger's, now back at your Destroyer's, now back to my Avenger's. Sadly, it isn't the Avenger's, but if you stopped using coal and started using electricity, it could look like mine.

Look down, back up, where are you? You're in Immoren!

What's in your hand? I have it. It's an axe made of steel. Look again, THE AXE IS NOW AN ELECTRIFIED SWORD! Anything is possible when you play Cygnar!

I'm on a Storm Strider.



--
Yes, using eHaley to cast Deadeye and boost the Avenger (plus having it sit still for the aiming bonus) means RAT 6 + 4D6 to hit. Not bad with an AOE of 4, not bad. (PS: She can cast Telekinesis on it too for an extra 2" of range and it can still get the aiming bonus).

[MathPasta]

Though fluff question: How does Cygnar generate electricity?

[Sacredsouless]

Though fluff question: How does Cygnar generate electricity?

Well, depends. With the Thunderhead and Stormwall its the power of awesome (ignore those fancy storm clouds overhead), and everything else just feeds off of his and the Stormwalls awesomeness.

[Ender101]

Cygnar basically uses Tesla coils and 'storm chambers' to generate their voltaic power. In the forces of Cygnar book, Static charge and magnetism are mentioned several times, which could mean that these are key components to the galvanic technology. I don't think PP has ever come straight out and said 'it works like this' mostly because it's fictional technology. I do so love it however.

As for the Avenger, I think its an alright warjack, I like it on Kara Sloan from time to time, or Nemo2 (energizer is fun after all) but most of the time feels better off marshaled to Gun Mages. It needs a lot of support to function at peak efficiency, but even so, its a nice large blast template for us, we're not known for our AOE 4 pow 14's. Is it the optimal Cygnaran warjack? I would think not, its slow, its got low rat, and its sword is janky. I don't think that makes it flawed, its a useful, though difficult to use piece. I like it.

[Sanguinary Dan]

The Avenger is like most other Cygnar units. It needs the proper support to function at full efficiency. Attach it to an ATGM or Sword Knight Marshall with a Trencher Master Gunner nearby and watch it slaughter high DEF infantry in large numbers or knock over important targets.

As an easy example; I had one use the Rune Bolt Snipe effect to drop a shell on a Mage Hunter unit that was about 14" away. The TMG allowed me to re-roll the scatter and still catch most of the unit in the blast. ARM11 elves vs POW7 AoE4. You do the math. The Mages then finished off the survivors.

Against other targets you could use Pronto to get closer and then knock things down, or even better Stall, for the Sword Knights to take apart. Even Khador jacks don't enjoy P&S18 melee hits that shut down their engines. Followed by a bunch of P&S10+4d6 hits that choose the row they strike?

In a vacuum is the Avenger flawed? Probably. But we don't play in a vacuum. Use the support that you have access to to make the Avenger reach your expectations.

[DevonV]

Cygnar basically uses Tesla coils and 'storm chambers' to generate their voltaic power. In the forces of Cygnar book, Static charge and magnetism are mentioned several times, which could mean that these are key components to the galvanic technology. I don't think PP has ever come straight out and said 'it works like this' mostly because it's fictional technology. I do so love it however.

Mechanika is likely involved. Several 'casters can shoot lightning at will, and Nemo can cast all sorts of zappy spells. Also a group of Storm Callers could probably hook a 'jack up with 1.21 gigawatts. Examining Laddermore's lance and the Myrmidons it may well be that there's a method of generating "friction" against the natural magic of the world and storing the "sparks" to use later.

[PG_Tamwulf]

It really, really warms my heart to see so many positive reviews of the Avenger. When I first saw the concept for it, I was in love. Centurion chasis, big sword, big gun... didn't care what it did, it looked awesome. Then I saw the rules and immediately saw the potential. I was just about the only person saying positive things about this guy when Wrath dropped.

I couldn't wait, so I made my own Avenger:



It's a great 'Jack! I'll echo the sentiment about our 9 pt. Warjacks: It's getting awfully crowded...

[PG_Bobby Hostile]

Is it flawed? Hell no. It's as solid as the Defender. Where the Defender is a shooting jack that can melee, the Avenger is a melee jack that can shoot. It's combined arms approach appeals to me because that's how I build my lists, equal parts shooting and melee.

The large AOE is a boon to our faction, and the KD on it is a major bonus. Frankly, it could be RAT 2 and we could make it work with the plethora of shooting buffs we have at our disposal. We'd have to work a bit harder granted. I think what makes the jack balanced is the fact that you have to decide to use it, rather than it be automatically included. Compared to the Defender and the Cyclone, both of whom are solid choices, you now have to add in a third option in the 9 point range. If the decision was a no-brainer, I'd argue that there was imbalance. However, our 9 point range is chock full of good choices and it's going to be a tough decision to decide which jack to take for some lists.

A TA'd Avenger is going to have people pulling their hair out even more when facing Haley2. Stryker can drop 2 EQ's and potentially get an Avenger to drop more models (you'd need, Arlan, a Squire or ATGM's). It gives Cygnar more of something we're already good at. Board control. We can shut down advances, stall infantry attacks or just plain blow stuff apart.

I've been playing Cygnar for 9 years. The Avenger is a jack that has me excited for our faction. Is it absolutely perfect? No. Is it a great addition to our faction. Hell yeah.