Harrier

[Tarn]

Hi all i have a very quick question about The harrier. After it frenzies and kills someone can it make it sprint move? from how i am reading the rules it can.

Tarn

[Lord Xalys]

Reading the entry myself, I'd agree. AFAIK, a warbeasts activates when frenzying. Sprint specifies that it triggers at the end of activation. So, read that way a Harrier could indeed Sprint away after frenzying.

LX

[Symptom-F]

I think the problem is with the wording of sprint (which I don't have in front of me, so grain of salt here), which says the model can move if it kills during it's normal activation. If the beast frenzies, it doesn't get a normal activation, so the two don't work together. I could be wrong, and will check when I have the rule in front of me.

[Tarn]

Just checked against the card and it says "At the end of this model's activation,...."

Tarn

[Symptom-F]

Fair enough. If it isn't "normal activation" then it seems legit. Looking at the frenzy rule doesn't seem to mention anything preventing it either, so it seems I was wrong.

[Lord Xalys]

Indeed, 'normal' isn't part of the wording. So we should be off the hook on that one.

LX

[Northern Ronin]

As a heads up, this interaction is currently in a grey area based on different set of events (i.e Dr. A's feat), so it's still in the air. It may or may not be legal to have a harrier sprint after a Frenzy, just like they reversed the ruling on Carni's being able to assault during a Frenzy, as during that activation, you may only follow the script of Frenzying, and nothing else, no other choices may normally be made at the moment, sprint, being end of activation, falls into a grey area.

[PG_Saturated Phat]

As a heads up, this interaction is currently in a grey area based on different set of events (i.e Dr. A's feat), so it's still in the air. It may or may not be legal to have a harrier sprint after a Frenzy, just like they reversed the ruling on Carni's being able to assault during a Frenzy, as during that activation, you may only follow the script of Frenzying, and nothing else, no other choices may normally be made at the moment, sprint, being end of activation, falls into a grey area.

does this grey area mean that the way the rules are written cause this to technically work, but the intention of the rules is that it shoulden't? rules intentions vs semantics sounds way too warhammer to me,... I mean it either works or it doesn't right? (pending any infernal ruling)

[Crate123]

does this grey area mean that the way the rules are written cause this to technically work, but the intention of the rules is that it shoulden't? rules intentions vs semantics sounds way too warhammer to me,... I mean it either works or it doesn't right? (pending any infernal ruling)

I feel very certain that it will not work. To me its clear that even though Sprint has the wording "at the end of its activation...." its still bound by the ruling/intent that a frenzying beast can do no other thing than what it says in the Primal book in regards to frenzy. Thus its 1 double boosted attack and nothing else, no Assault, no Sprint and no animi usage. We have no ruling atm though but to me its grasping at straws.

[MeniteTom]

I thought a frenzying model's activation ended immediately after the attack resolved, meaning that it couldn't make a sprint move?

[Murkhadh]

Frenzy doesn't' happen during its activation, it happens before any models activate, it therefore cannot sprint.

[Northern Ronin]

does this grey area mean that the way the rules are written cause this to technically work, but the intention of the rules is that it shoulden't? rules intentions vs semantics sounds way too warhammer to me,... I mean it either works or it doesn't right? (pending any infernal ruling)

The wording is in a strange place, that Intent vs Wording is pretty foggy. Best I can say is let your opponent know before the start, and coin flip it or something.

To Murkhadh the problem is that your Frenzy -is- your activation. Even if it is before the Activaitons phase, your Frenzy is a full activation (it's what stops you from activating again later, hence the exception to allow them to activate again for Dr. A).

The reason this is unclear is this;
Before, you could assault with a Carni during a Frenzy, since Frenzy did not stop choices, and Assault just said when this model charges (which can often happen). They later ruled this by saying the game automatically says No to optional abilities during a Frenzy (so when asked if you assault during that frenzy charge, you must say no). However, this only applied to actions DURING that activation, sprint happens after the activation, and there is technically nothing stopping it, the old ruling does not encompass it, but the intent is clearly grey, which is why waiting and telling your opponent and being reasonable about the whole thing is the only good choice.

[Lanz]

As far as I know, the sprint from a frenzy works. I think what happened to the Carnivean means that they might errata it in the future, but currently nothing prevents you from sprinting after a harrier frenzy.

I don't think they'd errata it unless it was providing an unfair advantage, or if it came in conflict in such a way that an infernal needed to a ruling on it. Currently the RAW is sprint + frenzy = cool beans. So baring people flipping out, I don't imagine that'll change.

Unnatural Aggression works with Frenzy too, I believe, though that's not directly tied to the activation itself.