The Knight Exemplar Seneschal and "Supply and Demand"

[Fenryx]

Is this guy as much of an allstar in this scenario as I think he is? He just runs into base to base with their objective, and as long as you can block out your own, you basically auto-score two points?

The scenario says "Non-fleeing models in B2B", and I can't seem to find anything that will indicate that being disabled makes him not count as a model in b2b.

[Charming]

Yes, he will sit right on that objective up until your maintenance phase denying the opponent points. Great guy, right?!

[PG_Zeber]

Yes your opponents do not score with him in the zone

PS : get book/Gravus and he dies on his feet.

[Fenryx]

I know he denies capturing by opponents, but does the "dead" Seneschal count for a b2b model to TAKE control points in the Supply and Demand scenario?

[Marzuki]

I can't find anything that says disabled models cannot score points.

[Charming]

He can definitely capture points! He counts as a fully functional model in all respects until you remove him in your turn Which means, if you have either the book or Gravus hanging out nearby he'll be atanding up, handing out free strikes like a boss if someone wants to get away from those p+s 11 (13) weaponmaster free strikes

[Outbreak]

its possible you may not want him standing up. if he's KD'd B2B with the point he's stuck and not going anywhere, if he's standing the opponent can still slam/throw him

[MetaphoricDragon]

Excuse my ignorance, but I'm just not understanding what about the Knight Exemplar Seneshal makes him so outstanding for this over some other model for this scenario?

[Outbreak]

i think they're plans are to use most of the army to dominate one control point, while the seneschal goes and contends whichever point the opponent is after. Because he dies at the beginning of your turn, it is impossible for your opponent to kill him off, which they would want to do in order to score a control point at the end of their turn. After how many games of incursion I've played i can very safely say that contending that control point at the right instant is key

[Invaderzahn]

The seneshal doesn't die on your opponents turn when he takes enough damage. He hangs around until your maintenance phase. That means that he is still contesting when control points are checked at the end of your opponents turn.

Also chain attack slam is great for getting models out of a control zone.

[Wulfy]

The Seneschal has a special mechanic. If you take all his HP, he is not immediately boxed. He is disabled. If your opponent kills anything in his cmd he heals a point. The mechanic says you wait till the beginning of your turn, if he is still disabled, remove the model. So, he is still on the board during the end of your opponents turn. There are not any other models, to my knowledge, that do this so there are no rules that stop it.

This description is from my memory of using him, not out of the book, he or two of him, are in most of my armies.

[jandrese]

its possible you may not want him standing up. if he's KD'd B2B with the point he's stuck and not going anywhere, if he's standing the opponent can still slam/throw him

He can be thrown regardless, being knocked down only stops slams. It's pretty hard to get a good slam angle though if he's B2B with a flag or objective though.

[Lanz]

You generally want him on his feet because he can still engage and free-strike.

Being disabled doesn't innately cause anything to happen to the model, it's just one of the steps to destroying the model. A step that gets frozen by Restoration, so a 'disabled' Seneschal is no different than a normal knocked-down seneschal, and likewise one immune to knock-down is no different than a standing seneschal.

[Outbreak]

He can be thrown regardless, being knocked down only stops slams. It's pretty hard to get a good slam angle though if he's B2B with a flag or objective though.

\
Really? I dont have the book on me but the iBodger version of the rules says you cant throw a knocked down model. =\

Being disabled doesn't innately cause anything to happen to the model, it's just one of the steps to destroying the model. A step that gets frozen by Restoration, so a 'disabled' Seneschal is no different than a normal knocked-down seneschal, and likewise one immune to knock-down is no different than a standing seneschal.

except restoration also says he becomes knocked down and his activation immediately ends.
I think i get what you're saying, when you say 'disabled" you mean the entire affect of restoration, as in he's knocked down, but by book definition being purely disabled (as in part of the death sequence) doesn't actually do anything to the model.
I agree if you're trying to generate free strikes or engage a ranged target then you would want him standing, but if your opponent has other jacks available you might not want him slammable/throwable (although as jandese mentioned he might still be throwable, im not sure)

[jandrese]

\
Really? I dont have the book on me but the iBodger version of the rules says you cant throw a knocked down model. =\



except restoration also says he becomes knocked down and his activation immediately ends.
I think i get what you're saying, when you say 'disabled" you mean the entire affect of restoration, as in he's knocked down, but by book definition being purely disabled (as in part of the death sequence) doesn't actually do anything to the model.
I agree if you're trying to generate free strikes or engage a ranged target then you would want him standing, but if your opponent has other jacks available you might not want him slammable/throwable (although as jandese mentioned he might still be throwable, im not sure)

Slam has the following clause:

A knocked down model cannot be moved by a slam.

Throw has no such clause.

[Outbreak]

Slam has the following clause:
Throw has no such clause.

the book I'm assuming?
huh, i'll have to take a look for myself later, I'll take your word for it for now though. thanks for clearin that up

[Lanz]

except restoration also says he becomes knocked down and his activation immediately ends.
I think i get what you're saying, when you say 'disabled" you mean the entire affect of restoration, as in he's knocked down, but by book definition being purely disabled (as in part of the death sequence) doesn't actually do anything to the model.
I agree if you're trying to generate free strikes or engage a ranged target then you would want him standing, but if your opponent has other jacks available you might not want him slammable/throwable (although as jandese mentioned he might still be throwable, im not sure)

Yes, what I mean to say is that being in the condition of 'disabled' does not do anything. Restoration is what knocks him down, triggered by being disabled, but being disabled alone does nothing. If you have the book or gravus, he won't be knocked down, and can still engage, block LoS, and free-strike normally as if he were fine.

Also, you want him standing because if your opponent messes up and causes him to heal, you want to be able to activate normally next turn, and not have to forfeit something to stand up, since you'll have Battle Driven triggered at that point, and it'd be a big waste to not be able to charge with the PS13 weaponmaster.

And yes, being knocked down does nothing to prevent throws. That interaction is specifically slams.

[Outbreak]

Also, you want him standing because if your opponent messes up and causes him to heal, you want to be able to activate normally next turn, and not have to forfeit something to stand up, since you'll have Battle Driven triggered at that point, and it'd be a big waste to not be able to charge with the PS13 weaponmaster.

Good point, hadn't considered that. I'm convinced, getting an exemplar seneschal

[Marzuki]

Get two! They are wonderful solos.

Good point, hadn't considered that. I'm convinced, getting an exemplar seneschal

[Lanz]

Get two! They are wonderful solos.

I have 3, not including my Errant seneschal.