Yeah yeah, but how do I kill it? Stormwall

[PG_Longshot13]

So my friend picked up a Stormwall and I am already tired of it, after 2 games. It seems to slow down his play a lot as he takes time to figure out how to use it best, and fire all its guns, etc. He's even thinking about getting a second- to play at 35 points. So clearly he's crazy, but I want a way to reliably put that thing in the dirt. I haven't gotten a lot of play experience, but here is what I was thinking would be good answers to the problem:

Burrowers with a chronicler buff- could duck the guns long enough to unleash pow 16 shots into it, possibly 18 if I can stick Calamity with Grissel

Borka Brick with Champs screen - tough, survivable unit who can wreck with 2 weapon master attacks

Earth born bullet- with an elemental buff it could quickly get up there to do a lot of damage

Storm trolls - when they release, use them to keep storm pod's efficacy down.

Any other ideas? I'm fine with the concept of collosals, but the idea of 2 in a 35 point game puts a bad taste in my mouth.

[HellecticMojo]

Trolls probably struggle with it the least. Also 2 in a 35pt list is ridiculously small of a force. Any of the things you've mentioned would put it to dirt.

I really woudn't worry too much about the storm trolls though. pow 10 auto hitting electricity's kinda meaningless against us with our high armor and low defense. Also dang expensive fury wise to protect the field.

[Mountain King]

Couple of things, the Stormwall isn't going to care about tales of mist if is can stand still or has any kind of hit buff. i.e. rangers.
How do your Dygmies have POW 16 and POW 18 with Grissel? Did you run a beast up to the Stormwall as well and used Charge of trolls? Thus putting a beast in extreme danger before it ever got there.

pHaley can stop the Champs pretty hard, matter of fact she pretty much stops everyone's way to deal with the Stormwall in a timely manner.

Storm Troll isn't going to have that much of an impact on the lightning pods use, he is too expensive to spam and you aren't going to be spamming his animus on all the troopers that will need it, you can just have your support pieces do something like attack them. i.e. When your KSB runs and pops it's aura all the scribes can actually charge them and kill them.

[The Happy Anarchist]

My best bet is going to be a beast brick, particularly pDoomy. Walk up at ARM 22/23 until you can walk into melee and proceed to apply Pow 23 Mulg and Pow 22 Earthborn with Rage and Stone Strength and Mulg buffing Earthborn's melee. With pDoomy you can cast purification first and strip Arcane Shield, at which point you might be able to get both of them, but the other one won't be able to kill both heavies and you have a Mauler waiting in the wings!

[hmk17]

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about the storm pods too much. While they can deliver a good jolt, its more against stealth and concealment models/units. Blocking charge lanes is their main use against us.

The real issue with the Stormwall is not the machine itself, its what else is on the table with it. This thing is literally and figuratively a centerpiece for the army. I keep seeing people trying to shoe horn these into eCaine assassination lists or Connie troop walls, so if the Stormwall is unsupported you can tear it down easily.

With 2 Colossals at 35 points, the most you are getting beyond that is maybe 1-2 models depending on whether the Waracaster has 5 or 6 WJ points. So depending on the caster, 2 Stormwalls and Stormsmith or maybe 2 Stormwalls and Squire. Stormwall is great, but sometimes there is too much of a good thing.

[bakaryu]

eMadrak can bring one down in very little time at all with surprisingly little effort.

eDoomshaper can similarly do a lot of damage to it very quickly and can slingshot beasts from outside of Temporal Barrier unless pHaley is practically in front of the Stormwall.

pDoomshaper can help shut down that vital turn when you want to close on it as casting Temporal Barrier while within his control area on his feat turn is asking to get 1 shot. Just make sure you keep his *** protected because otherwise the Stormwall can easily gun him down even without focus.

[jdripley]

Honestly, the idea of 2 Stormwalls in a 35 point list against Trolls is making me salivate. The only caster that scares me with this combo off the top of my head is Stryker because his feat tends to shut you down for a turn. But here we go. 35 points, two stormwalls, you've got their caster, the two colossals, and something else that won't end up mattering. With your 35 points you're taking whatever in the world you want under Borka. Borka's going to put up Wind Wall, his beasts huddle up near him, and then he's going to win. Your Chronicler is going to put up Tale of Mists on your light infantry, and they'll range way out to one side. Your Bushwhackers/Nyss/whatever flankers you like will range way out to the OTHER side. Whatever else you have forms up and will move up as well. The idea is to have two wide-ranging flanking forces, and the balance of your force advancing in two separate groups so that the two Stormwalls must focus on 4 different groups. "But they have 4 arcs of fire, so they're ok with that! Oh noes!" That's fine. Borka and his friends aren't even getting hit because of Wind Wall. Your flankers are in terrain, right? And Tale of Mists will make the Stormwalls have to really try to hit.

If the opportunity presents itself, go ahead and charge one or both of the stormwalls and mess them up. Lightening pods are funny, just trample over them if they're in the way. The threat of Borka + Battlegroup plus whatever else is nearby him will force the enemy to pay attention to them. Either of your flanking groups will be capable of taking down a warcaster once they swing around the back.


1 Stormwall plus a Caster plus a unit of infantry that can screen and tie my advance up is FAR scarier to me than two Stormwalls.

Alternatively, just do a Borka beast brick. Take down one Stormwall on your feat turn. He probably wont' be able to kill enough of your beasts with just one Stormwall after that, so you eat his second Stormwall for lunch the next turn, then you put their caster on a spike and roast him at the victory celebration.

[Beckman]

Try this list at 35: If you CAN'T kill the Stormwall, I would be very surprised.

Madrak Ironhide, World Ender (*5pts)
* Dire Troll Mauler (9pts)
* Mulg the Ancient (12pts)
Pyg Burrowers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
Trollkin Fennblades (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer (2pts)
Fell Caller Hero (3pts)

[PG_petegrrrr]

Burrowers are terrible against the stormwall. As someone that owns a stormwall and plays him a good bit, I have zero fear of a unit I can keep out of melee with covering fire, since it auto kills them.

even fennblades or kriel warriors, our usual go to units, don't fair well against him. Single wounds just aren't gonna cut it.

What annoys me is a the aforementioned borka beast brick, where he has 3 heavies all huddled inside windwall range. or eMadrak with Champions and Longriders. Stuff that doesn't die without me even needing to boost my secondary guns are what really gives stormwall fits.

If you try and take down 2 stormwalls with single wound infantry, 4 covering fire templates are going to stifle your list until the stormwalls are in range to just aim and pepper you with 8-16 shots a turn.

[Beckman]

Burrowers are terrible against the stormwall. As someone that owns a stormwall and plays him a good bit, I have zero fear of a unit I can keep out of melee with covering fire, since it auto kills them.

even fennblades or kriel warriors, our usual go to units, don't fair well against him. Single wounds just aren't gonna cut it.

Forgot about the covering fire... My bad...

Edit: Thought that only the Khador one had that for some reason.

[PG_petegrrrr]

No worries.

eMadrak can still take down stormwalls, he just needs longriders and champs instead of singlewounds.

[Mountain King]

eDoomshaper can similarly do a lot of damage to it very quickly and can slingshot beasts from outside of Temporal Barrier unless pHaley is practically in front of the Stormwall.

This statement is pretty much false, even the EBDT with the Axer animus on it under feat turn only goes 15.5" and pHaley with Squire is a 16" control area. 16" >15.5" thus you are starting within temporal barrier every time, and the EBDT with Axer animus is the longest threat we have, with any kind of reliability.
Even Mulg with Relentless proc'd under feat turn with EBDT animus on him and reach goes exactly 16", so again he would start within temporal barrier.

While eDoomie has a great chance at killing Colossals in a turn, he is far from immune to temporal barrier.

[zor]

This statement is pretty much false, even the EBDT with the Axer animus on it under feat turn only goes 15.5" and pHaley with Squire is a 16" control area. 16" >15.5" thus you are starting within temporal barrier every time, and the EBDT with Axer animus is the longest threat we have, with any kind of reliability.
Even Mulg with Relentless proc'd under feat turn with EBDT animus on him and reach goes exactly 16", so again he would start within temporal barrier.

While eDoomie has a great chance at killing Colossals in a turn, he is far from immune to temporal barrier.

Haley while standing behind a Stormwall is only affecting 11" in front of the Stormwall, making eDoomy fully viable. Even if she's in an odd spot, the best she will get is maybe 13" or 14" ahead of stormwall...so yeah still fine from TB.

[Mountain King]

Haley while standing behind a Stormwall is only affecting 11" in front of the Stormwall, making eDoomy fully viable. Even if she's in an odd spot, the best she will get is maybe 13" or 14" ahead of stormwall...so yeah still fine from TB.

This is true and I did not account for that, but She also doesn't need to be on the complete other side of the Stormwall to get protection from Melee only beasts, she can pretty much stand right in front of them as your beast are only ever going to walk 4-7" a turn. And after pretty much the 1st turn both armies are close enough that everything is usually within 16" of each other.
1st turn pHaley allocates, casts temporal barrier and then charges 9". With youor 10" deployment added onto this, it means you are walking/running into temporal barrier effects on your very 1st turn. Now she can just cast it and move back every turn and let her stormwalls shoot eDoomie to death, or he can transfer and kill his beasts.
Also for eDoomie to be able to push his beasts that far he is also playing as far forward as possible, thus putting him in shooting range. Not too mention 4 covering fire templates he would need to walk through to maintain his beasts in his control area.

pHaley and Temporal barrier is just a bad match up for Trolls, hell for anyone that is running a melee centric army.

[Beckman]

This is true and I did not account for that, but She also doesn't need to be on the complete other side of the Stormwall to get protection from Melee only beasts, she can pretty much stand right in front of them as your beast are only ever going to walk 4-7" a turn. And after pretty much the 1st turn both armies are close enough that everything is usually within 16" of each other.
1st turn pHaley allocates, casts temporal barrier and then charges 9". With youor 10" deployment added onto this, it means you are walking/running into temporal barrier effects on your very 1st turn. Now she can just cast it and move back every turn and let her stormwalls shoot eDoomie to death, or he can transfer and kill his beasts.
Also for eDoomie to be able to push his beasts that far he is also playing as far forward as possible, thus putting him in shooting range. Not too mention 4 covering fire templates he would need to walk through to maintain his beasts in his control area.

pHaley and Temporal barrier is just a bad match up for Trolls, hell for anyone that is running a melee centric army.

I think that that matchup sucks, but there ARE a few bright spots:

1. If pHaley is standing that close to the front and have screening infantry, you can Trample over the intervening troops with Wild Aggression, force to goad, and quite likely kill pHaley.
2. If they have stuff in the way, you can pop feat, wreck their junk first, and goad all around their control area, then Refuge 7-8".
3. Haley allocating 3 to the Stormwall and casting TB doesn't have a lot of focus. Primal Shock.
4. If you have a Bomber, and they are being cute by not having screening infantry to deny Goad, Haley is sitting out there with nothing inbetween your bombs and her face.
5. Anything that is in front of pHaley by a few inches (and therefore chargeable) is pretty dead, including most Warjacks.
6. Unless the pHaley player stands directly in front of their Colossal, one side of the Colossal will be better protected than the other. If they do stand directly in front of the Colossal, I think they're making it easier for you if you have any sort of ranged game at all in your list.


I do agree that it's a bad matchup for the eDoomy player. And with certain lists, it's a TERRIBLE matchup. But I think it's quite possible for the other guy to lose to a refuged Bomber and some combination of Goads, and Primal Shocks.

[PG_petegrrrr]

Affects that prevent charging prevent you from trampling, so if pHaley has TB up, you can't even trample to her.

[Mountain King]

I think that that matchup sucks, but there ARE a few bright spots:

1. If pHaley is standing that close to the front and have screening infantry, you can Trample over the intervening troops with Wild Aggression, force to goad, and quite likely kill pHaley.
2. If they have stuff in the way, you can pop feat, wreck their junk first, and goad all around their control area, then Refuge 7-8".
3. Haley allocating 3 to the Stormwall and casting TB doesn't have a lot of focus. Primal Shock.
4. If you have a Bomber, and they are being cute by not having screening infantry to deny Goad, Haley is sitting out there with nothing inbetween your bombs and her face.
5. Anything that is in front of pHaley by a few inches (and therefore chargeable) is pretty dead, including most Warjacks.
6. Unless the pHaley player stands directly in front of their Colossal, one side of the Colossal will be better protected than the other. If they do stand directly in front of the Colossal, I think they're making it easier for you if you have any sort of ranged game at all in your list.


I do agree that it's a bad matchup for the eDoomy player. And with certain lists, it's a TERRIBLE matchup. But I think it's quite possible for the other guy to lose to a refuged Bomber and some combination of Goads, and Primal Shocks.

As pete said you can't trample as you can not charge under TB.
The Bomber walks 5 and hurls a bomb 8 that is 13" pHaley is still 3" farther back than that.
As I said after the 1st turn of the game you are never going to run/charge anything as you will be completely blanketed by TB.

All in all you are better off just bringing a different list. Grim or Jarl are much better options, there is a point where people need to realize it's time to not even deal with the Stormwalls and just go for Assassination. Jarl with Magic Bullet is better suited for doing this and eDoomie is. Might take a few turns as POW 12's unboosted aren't exactly one round killers but the add up.

At 35 points a pHaley list bringing 2 Stormwalls only has enough points for a Squire. So her list is 4 models.

I would almost be inclined to try something this outrageous.

Jarl Skuld, Devil Of Thornwood
Slag Troll
Slag Troll
Troll Impaler
Earthborn Dire Troll
Trollkin Runebearer
Krielstone Bearer and 3 Stone Scribes
Janissa Stonetide
Troll Whelps
Troll Whelps
Troll Whelps

Just snipe Jarl and the Slags to shoot into the Stormwalls if needed and Magic bullet onto Squire/Haley. Sit under the protection of EBDT/Wall/KSB and just transfer dmg to beasts as needed and then just eat whelps to stay healed and manage fury.
If she drops TB to camp more focus to stop Magic Bullet then you should have enough dmg output from the Slags/EBDT to kill one or both of the Stormwalls that turn.

[Beckman]

[QUOTE=Mountain King;1512546]As pete said you can't trample as you can not charge under TB.
The Bomber walks 5 and hurls a bomb 8 that is 13" pHaley is still 3" farther back than that.
As I said after the 1st turn of the game you are never going to run/charge anything as you will be completely blanketed by TB.
[quote]

I'm assuming that you are trampling from outside the aura, over and through the enemy models.

All in all you are better off just bringing a different list. Grim or Jarl are much better options, there is a point where people need to realize it's time to not even deal with the Stormwalls and just go for Assassination. Jarl with Magic Bullet is better suited for doing this and eDoomie is. Might take a few turns as POW 12's unboosted aren't exactly one round killers but the add up.

I agree - but I do want to point out that Primal Shock is two boosted POW12s.

At 35 points a pHaley list bringing 2 Stormwalls only has enough points for a Squire. So her list is 4 models.

I would almost be inclined to try something this outrageous.

Yeah, that is a problematic list. But it you did bring a Bomber/Impaler with eHoarluk, that list is screwed hard. If pHaley is hittable by the Bomber, she is in a predicament, if she backs up unbetween/behind the Stormwall, the Stormwalls can be charged.

Jarl Skuld, Devil Of Thornwood
Slag Troll
Slag Troll
Troll Impaler
Earthborn Dire Troll
Trollkin Runebearer
Krielstone Bearer and 3 Stone Scribes
Janissa Stonetide
Troll Whelps
Troll Whelps
Troll Whelps

Just snipe Jarl and the Slags to shoot into the Stormwalls if needed and Magic bullet onto Squire/Haley. Sit under the protection of EBDT/Wall/KSB and just transfer dmg to beasts as needed and then just eat whelps to stay healed and manage fury.
If she drops TB to camp more focus to stop Magic Bullet then you should have enough dmg output from the Slags/EBDT to kill one or both of the Stormwalls that turn.

No way dude, one of the Stormwalls is at ARM22 from Arcane Shield. Although, if he brings two of them he still has ARM19 on one of them because he can't bring Junior. Slags do an average boosted damage roll of 26-ARM against the Stormwall. I don't think the EBDT + STR buff + 2 Slag's shooting is enough to to one round two stormwalls. Unless you have a penchant for rolling quadrouple sixes..

What I think that list DOES do is get rid of the Squire, which is nice... But I don't think you have the charge ranges to charge outside of pHaley's now 14" area.

[Beckman]

[QUOTE=Mountain King;1512546]As pete said you can't trample as you can not charge under TB.
The Bomber walks 5 and hurls a bomb 8 that is 13" pHaley is still 3" farther back than that.
As I said after the 1st turn of the game you are never going to run/charge anything as you will be completely blanketed by TB.
[quote]

I'm assuming that you are trampling from outside the aura, over and through the enemy models.

All in all you are better off just bringing a different list. Grim or Jarl are much better options, there is a point where people need to realize it's time to not even deal with the Stormwalls and just go for Assassination. Jarl with Magic Bullet is better suited for doing this and eDoomie is. Might take a few turns as POW 12's unboosted aren't exactly one round killers but the add up.

I agree - but I do want to point out that Primal Shock is two boosted POW12s.

At 35 points a pHaley list bringing 2 Stormwalls only has enough points for a Squire. So her list is 4 models.

I would almost be inclined to try something this outrageous.

Yeah, that is a problematic list. But it you did bring a Bomber/Impaler with eHoarluk, that list is screwed hard. If pHaley is hittable by the Bomber, she is in a predicament, if she backs up unbetween/behind the Stormwall, the Stormwalls can be charged.

Jarl Skuld, Devil Of Thornwood
Slag Troll
Slag Troll
Troll Impaler
Earthborn Dire Troll
Trollkin Runebearer
Krielstone Bearer and 3 Stone Scribes
Janissa Stonetide
Troll Whelps
Troll Whelps
Troll Whelps

Just snipe Jarl and the Slags to shoot into the Stormwalls if needed and Magic bullet onto Squire/Haley. Sit under the protection of EBDT/Wall/KSB and just transfer dmg to beasts as needed and then just eat whelps to stay healed and manage fury.
If she drops TB to camp more focus to stop Magic Bullet then you should have enough dmg output from the Slags/EBDT to kill one or both of the Stormwalls that turn.

No way dude, one of the Stormwalls is at ARM22 from Arcane Shield. Although, if he brings two of them he still has ARM19 on one of them because he can't bring Junior. Slags do an average boosted damage roll of 26-ARM against the Stormwall. I don't think the EBDT + STR buff + 2 Slag's shooting is enough to to one round two stormwalls. Unless you have a penchant for rolling quadrouple sixes.. And you wouldn't be able to charge the Stormwall anyways - your threat is ~10.5, to the Stormwall's 10" threat.... But you can't charge, so you're looking at a more realistic 7.5" walk threat, which is not particularly awesome.

What I think that list DOES do is get rid of the Squire, which is nice... But I don't think you have the charge ranges to charge outside of pHaley's now 14" area.

[Mountain King]

So you are assuming you are Trampling from 16" away, what on earth are you going to kill of worth or even get to after that that is worth anything to attack. You have now just forfieted your other attacks, have force once if not twice, then need to start buying attacks on basically nothing of value.

Also where are you starting this trample from and on the 1st turn of the game pHaley can cover all but 6" of the 48" table you play on. By the very nature of the game play you walk right into TB on the 1st turn unless you either a) don't deploy all the way forward, thus giving up scenario, b) don't move all the way forward on your first turn, thus giving up scenario.

As I stated earlier you also will need to have moved eDoomie forward and probably thru 1-4 covering fire templates, which is free dmg on your beasts. Just to pull off this trample you are so fond of.

The Bomber and Impaler threat just isnt there, as she can just sit behind her Stormwalls and not be hit by the attacks. 2 Stormwalls, shooting 1 bomber will mess it up pretty bad in a turn of shooting. Also if the bomber has to go into melee it is severly lacking any punch.

As for the list, Since one of the Stormwalls is ARM 22, you just shoot the other 1, Slag troll should be doing 7 dmg per shot to it on avg boosted dice, that is 14 dmg per Slag troll per turn. So 28 boxes of dmg to it in one turn, more than half of it's total boxes. Add to this is you want 2 shots from Jarl and any dmg he does to it is bonus dmg. You also don't need to kill them both in one turn, if you kill one the list is 19 points down and has a huge hole in its ability to do what it's supposed to do. So 2 rounds of shooting and the Slag trolls have already killed one of the Stormwalls on avg. At the very least they have rendered half of one weapon systems useless.
Even on a Stormwall with AS on it each Slag troll is doing 8 dmg on avg per turn. That is 16 dmg a turn on an ARM 22 jack. That isn't bad, considering you can not charge them thanks to TB.
Jarl with Quicken, A Wall and EBDT animus on him isn't that easy for the Stormwalls to hit either. DEF 21 or 23 if there happens to be water near by and sitting at ARM 19. If pHaley casts Deadeye to combat that then that is 2 less she is camping which is good. If she allocates for boosting that is less focus she is camping which again is a good thing.

The more I think about it the more I like the list vs. a 2 Stormwall pHaley list at 35 points. Get real crazy and dump all the whelps for another slag and watch them melt. That would be 42 dmg to ARM 19 in one turn or 24 dmg to ARM 22 in one turn. Granted you leave a lot of fury on the table.

As I said the point of the list isn't to kill the stormwalls its to bounce Magic bullet of the jack wall and into the low ARM pHaley. Pumping 2 magic bullets into her a turn is going to force her to stop casting TB, which then opens up the charge for the EBDT.

[hmk17]

Just remember, pHaley and eHaley are some worst case scenarios and by no means the ONLY casters you will see with a Stormwall.

[PG_petegrrrr]

I love Stormwall with eNemo.

12 pow triangulation madness is awesome. And his can polarity shield, lightning shroud, or failsafe him. Plus 3 focus for free on feat turn is boss sauce.

But with 3 storm callers, it was out of control. I was killing 7-9 infantry a turn with 3 points worth of models.

[Largi]

Here in the UK its ETC next weekend. With Stormwall being the only Colossal we've all had to prep for facing them as we predict there will be 50+ in attendance (240 players, some teams coming all Cygnar).
I've been given the Job of having to take on the Stormwalls when possible, so i've had to try and twist my list to cater for that.

This is what i'm having the most success with

Doomy2
- Mulg
- Mauler
- Earthborn
- Bomber
- Axer
Whelps
6 Krielstone
Janissa

Feat Turn, I can either propell a Mulg with Rush ridiculous range and average dice (8 attacks) Kill it or make it Limp and worry about a Mulg in its face. Alternatively send it in without rush with Rage and Wreck the Stormwall more reliably.

[goesgoch]

Have faced the Stormwall twice in a tournament (last weekend). I knew that in all probability that I would, and so took lists to try out against them.
1st game was Vs eHaley and a Stormwall and so I put down Jarl. By turn 3 Haley was dead through a combination of Jarl's shooting and then magic bullets. The Stormwall had taken a massive 0 amount of damage. Killbox was in effect so that was nice for me.
4th game was Vs Kraye and a Stormwall and so I put down eDoomie. Stormwall was dead by turn 2...ultimately it took much more than I thought it would take to take down. Rok and Mulg went in and it was only on Mulg's affinity attack did it drop.

[Beckman]

So you are assuming you are Trampling from 16" away, what on earth are you going to kill of worth or even get to after that that is worth anything to attack. You have now just forfieted your other attacks, have force once if not twice, then need to start buying attacks on basically nothing of value.

His caster??? With Wild Aggression, he's hit rather easily... and probably dead. That's pretty much the ONLY reason you would trample instead of charge and goad.

Also where are you starting this trample from and on the 1st turn of the game pHaley can cover all but 6" of the 48" table you play on. By the very nature of the game play you walk right into TB on the 1st turn unless you either a) don't deploy all the way forward, thus giving up scenario, b) don't move all the way forward on your first turn, thus giving up scenario.

Doing the math, you're right about that... you have to walk first turn if you go first, or else they cast TB, push their caster and charge. BUT in this scenario, they are bomber bait if you can draw LOS to them.

As I stated earlier you also will need to have moved eDoomie forward and probably thru 1-4 covering fire templates, which is free dmg on your beasts. Just to pull off this trample you are so fond of.

Don't knock the trample... It's how you get wins with eDoomy. Someone's like, "I'm safe behind my infantry and behind a forest" and you're like, "Wild Aggression! Trample your d00ds. I don't care about LOS! Goad! You're dead " Unfortunately, his feat is rather neutered when the opponent can force TB on you all game. I'm not worried about coverin fire templates except against infantry... I'm more worried about their guns with everything in my list having -3 DEF.

The Bomber and Impaler threat just isnt there, as she can just sit behind her Stormwalls and not be hit by the attacks. 2 Stormwalls, shooting 1 bomber will mess it up pretty bad in a turn of shooting. Also if the bomber has to go into melee it is severly lacking any punch.

If she sits behind the Stormwall all game, you can charge it pretty easily, and that's a fail move. If she stands in front of it, she's hopefully open to being shot in the face.

As for the list, Since one of the Stormwalls is ARM 22, you just shoot the other 1, Slag troll should be doing 7 dmg per shot to it on avg boosted dice, that is 14 dmg per Slag troll per turn. So 28 boxes of dmg to it in one turn, more than half of it's total boxes. Add to this is you want 2 shots from Jarl and any dmg he does to it is bonus dmg. You also don't need to kill them both in one turn, if you kill one the list is 19 points down and has a huge hole in its ability to do what it's supposed to do. So 2 rounds of shooting and the Slag trolls have already killed one of the Stormwalls on avg.

I think getting two turns of shooting in on the Stormwall is unrealistic. The list has no tie-up units at all, so any time an infantry list comes a calling, you'll be in big trouble.. Jarl is good against infantry, but he can only do so much. I don't want to play this list against an infantrymachine horde of reach guys. It just doesn't seem as balanced of a list as the eHoarluk one.

At the very least they have rendered half of one weapon systems useless.
Even on a Stormwall with AS on it each Slag troll is doing 8 dmg on avg per turn. That is 16 dmg a turn on an ARM 22 jack. That isn't bad, considering you can not charge them thanks to TB.
Jarl with Quicken, A Wall and EBDT animus on him isn't that easy for the Stormwalls to hit either. DEF 21 or 23 if there happens to be water near by and sitting at ARM 19. If pHaley casts Deadeye to combat that then that is 2 less she is camping which is good. If she allocates for boosting that is less focus she is camping which again is a good thing.

The more I think about it the more I like the list vs. a 2 Stormwall pHaley list at 35 points. Get real crazy and dump all the whelps for another slag and watch them melt. That would be 42 dmg to ARM 19 in one turn or 24 dmg to ARM 22 in one turn. Granted you leave a lot of fury on the table.

As I said the point of the list isn't to kill the stormwalls its to bounce Magic bullet of the jack wall and into the low ARM pHaley. Pumping 2 magic bullets into her a turn is going to force her to stop casting TB, which then opens up the charge for the EBDT.

Honestly, I would rather fight 2 Stormwalls at 35 than 1 stormwall and other junk.

Your list has inspired me, though... I think I want to take a look at a Gunny list again...

Captain Gunnbjorn (*5pts)
* Slag Troll (6pts)
* Slag Troll (6pts)
* Troll Impaler (5pts)
* Dire Troll Blitzer (9pts)
* Dire Troll Blitzer (9pts)
* Dire Troll Bomber (10pts)
* Trollkin Runebearer (2pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 3 Stone Scribes (3pts)
Janissa Stonetide (3pts)
Troll Whelps (2pts)

What about this gem? It's based on the list by Flanzer. Except I took out the SSE and Winter Troll and put in another Slag.

It's got double Slags like the Jarl list, it's got Guided Fire, so the Slags do not completely suck outside of the matchup... And it bones MOST shooting lists with DEF16 ARM20 multi-box dudes.

Double Walls make engaging with the Stormwall really hard with its large gigantic base. You can put the walls 3" away from you in a V, and it becomes really hard to engage you. And the Slags should just be melting the Stormwall, like you said...

And the list won't get tied up by melee lists because of Blitzers with Guided fire...

It will also take some serious.... riskiness to try to TB you. "Yes, Get within 16" of my entire list... with Guided Fire... I like this plan."

[PG_somnicide]

Min champions under ksb ua aura and with an impaler helping out wrecked one side of stormwall last night in a game. Champions are pretty great against most of cygnar. And yes, it was phaley so it was slow getting there but he had a mauler and mulg to deal with at the same time.

[Beckman]

Min champions under ksb ua aura and with an impaler helping out wrecked one side of stormwall last night in a game.

Did they get charge somehow? Did the Stormwall have buffs or not?

[PG_somnicide]

No charge thanks to TB which also knocked down my def, stormwall had arcane shield. It took 2 turns and at the end there was a single champion on that side with 1 wound (he made a tough check).

edit: Both Mulg and the Mauler were killed en route.

[Beckman]

No charge thanks to TB which also knocked down my def, stormwall had arcane shield. It took 2 turns and at the end there was a single champion on that side with 1 wound (he made a tough check).

edit: Both Mulg and the Mauler were killed en route.

Am I missing something? Aren't min Champs 6 P+S12 (SSE) weaponmasters, so an average damage roll of 22.5 ish, right? Did you roll well?

[Trollknight]

kill the caster. it one model. yes it a pain but it can not work if the caster is dead.

[PG_somnicide]

I rolled okay, some rolls did nothing, others did well - there were no 18s but there were a couple of 15s and maybe a 16. The problem with a slavish adherence to mathing things out is that you come up with an absolute number (22.5) that is utterly irrelevant to the game other than making an educated guess about something. My opponent did the same thing you did, looked said 22.5 and basically ignored them at his peril (though in his defense, either mulg or the mauler would have probably done more so it was probably the right call). Weaponmasters are always good because of the potential for spiky rolls especially when you are only missing on a 2 or 3.

That is 5 games I have in against the stormwall now and I think the only one I lost was an edoomie list. That's not to say it isn't good, but I tend to be an assassination player by nature and the stormwall is ultimately only one model so there are bound to be more angles than a list with more models. It is an absolute nightmare to face in some scenarios. Don't get me wrong, it's good, but you can win games without killing it.

[PG_Mr. Mayhem]

I've used Cav to good effect against the Storm Wall. They don't worry much about Covering Fire and they have the potential to clear units screening it with impact attacks. They can also remove the pods relatively effectively with impact or ride by attacks. Obviously it's easier if your opponent inexplicably doesn't have AS up (or you have PDoomy), but with a light beast damage buff they each hit with 2 POW 16's, one boosted, one not. Also Blood Fury on them should be stellar against it.

[Mountain King]

His caster??? With Wild Aggression, he's hit rather easily... and probably dead. That's pretty much the ONLY reason you would trample instead of charge and goad.

As I did the math earlier, Mulg with Relentless Proc'd under feat with EBDT is the only beast we have that has 16" of threat, Which means you are still starting within TB and thus can not trample. So chances are even with goad you are not getting to his caster. Since in this case there is no infantry the arguement is pointless.

Doing the math, you're right about that... you have to walk first turn if you go first, or else they cast TB, push their caster and charge. BUT in this scenario, they are bomber bait if you can draw LOS to them.

I'm not sure how you are coming to this conclusion, so will not argue the point.

Don't knock the trample... It's how you get wins with eDoomy. Someone's like, "I'm safe behind my infantry and behind a forest" and you're like, "Wild Aggression! Trample your d00ds. I don't care about LOS! Goad! You're dead " Unfortunately, his feat is rather neutered when the opponent can force TB on you all game. I'm not worried about coverin fire templates except against infantry... I'm more worried about their guns with everything in my list having -3 DEF.

I 100% agree when that is actually the case. This however is not the case in a 35 point list with 2 Colossals.

If she sits behind the Stormwall all game, you can charge it pretty easily, and that's a fail move. If she stands in front of it, she's hopefully open to being shot in the face.

Again no you can not as you are in TB on the very first turn of the game. She covers all but the last 6" of the board on the 1st turn. A Stormwalls base is actually less than 5" Once you are stuck in TB you are pretty much there until she decides to drop it.

I think getting two turns of shooting in on the Stormwall is unrealistic. The list has no tie-up units at all, so any time an infantry list comes a calling, you'll be in big trouble.. Jarl is good against infantry, but he can only do so much. I don't want to play this list against an infantrymachine horde of reach guys. It just doesn't seem as balanced of a list as the eHoarluk one.

The list doesn't need tie up units, pHaley isn't going to be charging her superior fire power across the table to melee you to death. So yes I completely find it reasonable to get 2 rounds of shooting in.

Honestly, I would rather fight 2 Stormwalls at 35 than 1 stormwall and other junk.

I agree.

Your list has inspired me, though... I think I want to take a look at a Gunny list again...

Captain Gunnbjorn (*5pts)
* Slag Troll (6pts)
* Slag Troll (6pts)
* Troll Impaler (5pts)
* Dire Troll Blitzer (9pts)
* Dire Troll Blitzer (9pts)
* Dire Troll Bomber (10pts)
* Trollkin Runebearer (2pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 3 Stone Scribes (3pts)
Janissa Stonetide (3pts)
Troll Whelps (2pts)

What about this gem? It's based on the list by Flanzer. Except I took out the SSE and Winter Troll and put in another Slag.

It's got double Slags like the Jarl list, it's got Guided Fire, so the Slags do not completely suck outside of the matchup... And it bones MOST shooting lists with DEF16 ARM20 multi-box dudes.

Double Walls make engaging with the Stormwall really hard with its large gigantic base. You can put the walls 3" away from you in a V, and it becomes really hard to engage you. And the Slags should just be melting the Stormwall, like you said...

And the list won't get tied up by melee lists because of Blitzers with Guided fire...

It will also take some serious.... riskiness to try to TB you. "Yes, Get within 16" of my entire list... with Guided Fire... I like this plan."

The only thing I don't like about the list is that Gunny really doesn't pose a threat to Haley until the one the Stormwalls is dead. Whereas Jarl can put some magic bullets into her when she is not camping very much focus. Which really helps to put her on the clock and forces her to play a game she doesn't necessarily want to play.

[hatchet]

you'll need pHoarluk or Thrullg to get rid of Arcane Shield, but Thrullg is so easy to kill from a distance he'd never make it. If you can get rid of AS slag trolls can do a real number on jacks, with two shots of pow 12 and 4 dice per slag troll they can put some hurt on a jack, no matter how big it is.

[goesgoch]

As I did the math earlier, Mulg with Relentless Proc'd under feat with EBDT is the only beast we have that has 16" of threat.

Then go re-do your Math - biggest threat range Troll beasts can get is 18"!

[hmk17]

Again no you can not as you are in TB on the very first turn of the game. She covers all but the last 6" of the board on the 1st turn. A Stormwalls base is actually less than 5" Once you are stuck in TB you are pretty much there until she decides to drop it.

IF starting on the 10" line and assuming no scenario deployment and a clear field, with a Squire in range (CNTRL 16") and she is able to run her full 12"... that puts her 22" in and it puts the far edge of TB 38" deep from the Cygnar starting edge on a 48" board. The highest point of the spherical CNTRL touches your starting zone, that's 10" of freedom... not 6". A very big difference depending on who goes 1st and who goes 2nd.

The better question is would a pHaley player do that? No, not unless they set up the terrain in their favor; are supremely overconfident, or have possible issues with mental fortitude. A simple advance serves better and is more realistic than assuming the opponent is going to go juggernaut across the field. Thus odds are you will not be under TB on turn 1.

Besides, if ANY jacks under her are made to run... she may only have at most 1-2 Focus giving her armor OR to use for Arcane Vortex. As Beckman pointed out earlier, 3 focus to the Stormwall and 4 for Temporal Barrier usually leaves pHaley tapped unless she got 1 of the Squire's 3. But AV does nothing for her if hit by Gunny's bazooka or two shots from Jarl. Heaven forbid we actually use a War Wagon. Hell, I would laugh for a week if Haley did the above sprint and got dropped by a CRA of Bushwhackers.

[Beckman]

IF starting on the 10" line and assuming no scenario deployment and a clear field, with a Squire in range (CNTRL 16") and she is able to run her full 12"... that puts her 22" in and it puts the far edge of TB 38" deep from the Cygnar starting edge on a 48" board. The highest point of the spherical CNTRL touches your starting zone, that's 10" of freedom... not 6". A very big difference depending on who goes 1st and who goes 2nd.

No, he's pretty much right...

You go first, starting at the 7" line.

Heley is going second, and is on the 10" line. She gets pushed by a Jack, Casts TB, and Charges forward, moving a total of 10", covering 16" with TB. That's 36" of coverage. With your starting line included, it's 43", which leaves you a 5" walk.

He still covers 33" of board going second, but now if you walk up, you're in easy walk+TB range. If you don't walk up, you lose objectives.

The basic problem is that if you move up to 18" away, to try some shinnanigans next turn, he walks up and pops TB.

He only has to keep you in TB, since you have no out of activation movement besides pushes and throws which are largely unhelpful.

The better question is would a pHaley player do that? No, not unless they set up the terrain in their favor; are supremely overconfident, or have possible issues with mental fortitude. A simple advance serves better and is more realistic than assuming the opponent is going to go juggernaut across the field. Thus odds are you will not be under TB on turn 1.

I would do that. Unless the opponent had a Bomber and an Impaler. I would probably use a littlemore caution then...

But once you are under TB, which is pretty inevitable, he can park a Stormwall in front of his caster... and you lose LOS and are pretty screwed. The more I think about it the worse it is :-/

Besides, if ANY jacks under her are made to run... she may only have at most 1-2 Focus giving her armor OR to use for Arcane Vortex. As Beckman pointed out earlier, 3 focus to the Stormwall and 4 for Temporal Barrier usually leaves pHaley tapped unless she got 1 of the Squire's 3. But AV does nothing for her if hit by Gunny's bazooka or two shots from Jarl. Heaven forbid we actually use a War Wagon. Hell, I would laugh for a week if Haley did the above sprint and got dropped by a CRA of Bushwhackers.

Right, Jarl has a good game against her...

I think the Gunny list has a good game against her, and a better game than the Jarl beast heavy list against most other lists. Walls, heavy shooting, and multibox armorspam can be effective against a lot of stuff. Gunny can even let his list shoot Protectorate Jacks with Explosivo :P I think the Jarl list has a lot of unfavorable matchups.


Stupid question: Do they have a way to give the Stormwall Pathfinder with pHaley? Can you just put up a wall and laugh at them? I mean, geometry wise having two walls is really nice to keep them from being able to stop anywhere with that large base... But if Gunny could aggressively put a wall up within 3" of both Stormclads... so they couldn't charge OR walk forward beyond a few inches, that would be hilarious. (I know that Kraye can give Easy Rider)

[Urathave]

I think colossals have pathfinder.

[Beckman]

I think colossals have pathfinder.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Ahem.

This is acceptable.

[Mountain King]

Then go re-do your Math - biggest threat range Troll beasts can get is 18"!

Lets see. Mulg SPD 4 + 2 Relentless +2 Transmute +2 Reach +3 eDoomies feat +3 Charge. Looks like those numbers add up to 16" to me.
You can't count goad as you need to be in range of something 1st and kill it to get those 2". So you can't charge something you can't reach and count it as threat range.

IF starting on the 10" line and assuming no scenario deployment and a clear field, with a Squire in range (CNTRL 16") and she is able to run her full 12"... that puts her 22" in and it puts the far edge of TB 38" deep from the Cygnar starting edge on a 48" board. The highest point of the spherical CNTRL touches your starting zone, that's 10" of freedom... not 6". A very big difference depending on who goes 1st and who goes 2nd.

The better question is would a pHaley player do that? No, not unless they set up the terrain in their favor; are supremely overconfident, or have possible issues with mental fortitude. A simple advance serves better and is more realistic than assuming the opponent is going to go juggernaut across the field. Thus odds are you will not be under TB on turn 1.

Ok lets do the math here.
pHaley sets up on the 7" line +16" CTRL +9" charge. You can not cast a spell and run, I don't know how you can in your example. So 16"+ 16"= 32" Now since You set up and go second you are on the 10" line 32"+10" is 42", 48" - 42"= 6"

To answer your question about would pHaley do that, hell ya she would. I would do it and I have seen many players do it to me as well. Harbinger of Menoth can do this type of stupid stuff to with her 20" control area.

I think the Gunny list has a good game against her, and a better game than the Jarl beast heavy list against most other lists. Walls, heavy shooting, and multibox armorspam can be effective against a lot of stuff. Gunny can even let his list shoot Protectorate Jacks with Explosivo :P I think the Jarl list has a lot of unfavorable matchups.


Stupid question: Do they have a way to give the Stormwall Pathfinder with pHaley? Can you just put up a wall and laugh at them? I mean, geometry wise having two walls is really nice to keep them from being able to stop anywhere with that large base... But if Gunny could aggressively put a wall up within 3" of both Stormclads... so they couldn't charge OR walk forward beyond a few inches, that would be hilarious. (I know that Kraye can give Easy Rider)

The Jarl list was built specifically to go against this 35 points pHaley list with 2 Stormwalls in it, it is not something I would bring to a tournament and hope to do well with.
Since the OP clearly knows his opponent and his list it is a safe bet to built a specific list to counter it.

There is no need to give BE or Cols/Gargs pathfiner they all have it built in.