Ranged Stealth

[baronvonchaos]

What is your ranged stealth counter?

Simply put.

I am looking at fighting some Ret and fighting the Legion and eLylyth. I need something that can wax heavy warbeasts quickly.

I have toyed around with the idea of running steelhead cav into eLylyth's warbeasts, but that's really sacrificing 6 pts early on. I really don't know how to get around a ranged stealth list. Especially if your ranged stealth list ignores my stealth. It's a little ridiculous.

Any list postings would be cool too. I am looking at 50pt lists and I can pare it down from there if needed. I just have problems with the I can shoot you but you can't shoot me lists.

[Eredhiel]

your obvious response to stealth are the ATGM, since they have true sight. if you field them with dougall they can get an extra 2 inches threat and normally be able to get to retri infantry before they get to you. I mostly play them with ashlynn and you can put quicken on them , giving them an effective 17 def against ranged (but I think mage hunters ignore the +2 from spell) and a 24 inch threat range (8 spd, 10 RNG, + 4 snipe, +2 dougall). against eLylith this won't work, because pow 10 will hardly do much damage, but I recently played and won a match against elylith. I had mages with def 17, he still killed most of them during his feat turn but at least had to aim, so he was very behind on scenario. what made my game there was, simply put, devil dogs. Use ashlynn and cast quicken on them, keep carvolo handy for some tough/+1 DEF (they can go to def 16 against ranged, which is tough even for elylith) to ensure survivability, then run them 16 inches (8 spd with quicken) to engage the opponent's warbeasts. a DD engaging a beast can use the net on the freestrike, meaning all beast trying to get away will get KD and lose their action. serpentines (angelius etc.) are immune, but not the ravagores e.g. which will still cripple your opponent signficantly. keep eyriss and gorman safe till you need them, move in with your freebooter/nomad and Ashlynn herself and finish the job

[MagnustheJust]

And for those who do not play Highborne...

As many 4 or 5 inch AoE's as you can cram in there without making yourself vulnerable to infantry spam. Not that Ret spams much at this point, mind you!!

[Tucker]

Ranged stealth is an enormous pain the rear, especially on heavy jacks and warbeasts. It will be an uphill struggle unless you play a scenario that forces your opponent into the center of the board. Counters for ranged stealth:

Get MacBain to slap Countermeasures on a unit and run it up into the enemy's face, using his feat to protect them if necessary. Boomhowler is a great unit for this, as his company is fast, hard to kill, and covers a ton of ground. Then, while they're busy dealing with Boomhowler (or not) the rest of your army can close the distance and murder them in melee.

Stack up a bunch of heavy warjacks and run at the enemy. A caster who makes the warjacks tougher (Damiano, Bartolo) or faster (MacBain) is a good pick. Hopefully you'll only lose one or two on the way in so you can clobber the enemy with what remains.

Use Gunmages to kill Stealthed infantry. They can't kill jacks or beasts, but if they get some help in the accuracy department (like Deadeye from Damiano or Roulette from Ashlynn) they can kill one wound models pretty well.

Use terrain to cover your approach and block LOS, then bust through using Pathfinder to tie the enemy up in melee. This normally doesn't work, though, since many ranged stealth things can shoot right through forests. (oh joy)

[Tavitin]

Pronto

Slam

Spray

Tuned Up Lobber

True Sight

25pts at that.

[lastspartacus]

This is for beast specifically, right? Because otherwise: Durgen. Durgen. Durgen.

ATGM are awesome for the annoying pushes. Otherwise you will simply need to protect your own self. Also known as taking things that the ranged beasts have trouble damaging/high melee threat range. I'd love to try Damiano tier vs an eLylyth list.

Edit: Actually Durgen would work nicely regardless, some primed nyss or kayazy gumming up the works. Countermeasure probably is golden here though.

[MagnustheJust]

Oooh... right!! Lotsa sprays too!!

Nothing says "Booger-coated middle finger in the face!!" to stealth units like sprays...

[Eredhiel]

just reminded myself, your answer against retri can also be counterstealth meaning kayazi and chroe. kayazi with countermeasure (mc bain) are virtually immune to retri shooting units since once engaged they go to def 16/17 and they cover 12/14 inches a turn (depends if you use assassins or eliminators). Legion with eyless sight and shooting beasts is a different matter altogether

[baronvonchaos]

Croe/Kayazy with countermeasure seems good. I want to create a list that is a little on the omni-threat side, but it's so hard. If I have an Ossyan list with his character jack an others lobbing crap at me, I will have to deal with heavy arm.

How do you deal with stealth with heavy armor? eLylyth (and/or eKaya iirc) drops shadow pack and now I can't even "see" the models to shoot them. AOE's work against troops, but not against ARM 17+. Ideas?

Oh and Magnus, what sprays? I would want at least 2-3... Blasters are good, but I need 1-2 more options.

[Eredhiel]

at the cost of repeating myself... kayazi. assassins have pow 12 on gang and eliminators can do pow 15 with combo strike. eMagnus can run a renegade and use calamity to help with high armors, but I normally run kayazi with damiano. detah march will give you death march and an effective MAT 11, on feat turn it's pow 15 + back strike and vengeance. you just have to be careful about enemy blasts, but eKaya does not have them, Ossian does, but then again if he kills one model you get 3 inches more movement and a free melee attack

[Themainmenoth]

The shield heavy that came out in Wrath, Can't remember it's name, has an armor of 21 baseline, and under Bart's Batten down the hatches spell, they're armor 24 with no knock down, you can run them with him and just "Eat" those shots, more guns can't break that much armor.

Or maybe it was 20 base line and 23 under the spell, I forget haha.

[DocMerc]

A mangler with failsafe running hellbent at their army would be pretty good i think

[baronvonchaos]

When the MHSF takes out almost 2 heavy jacks in 1 turn, I'm not 100% sure that'd work. A Fail Safe'd Rover may have a better time... ARM 20 is better if only by 1.

[StJason]

Thor + 2 Blasters. That is three sprays (and Thor can tune-up the sprays). Put Rockbottom in the group and you have four sprays; two flamethrowers (one Sp8, one Sp 6), one POW 10+3d6 damage (to everything under the spray). Not a bad little squad for 10 points.

[wazatdingder]

An axe to the face works every time.

[mikethefish]

I'm sorry StJason but you honestly cannot count Thor as actually having a spray attack. Sure he TECHNICALLY does have one...with a 6 inch range. Combine that with Thor's extreme squishiness and his necessity to hang back behind the scenes and you have an attack that you will almost never use.

And anyways, even if you DID get to fire at stuff, he would only be ignoring Stealth at ranges between 5 and 6 inches anyways (since Stealth doesn't work up close). Umm..woohoo?

[MagnustheJust]

Oh and Magnus, what sprays? I would want at least 2-3... Blasters are good, but I need 1-2 more options.

Durgen, 4x Blasters, a Rockram, Herne & Jonne, max Kayazy Assassins with Underpants Boss... There's a 25 point list off the top of me melon that should work for you. If going to 35+, add to suite tastes/personal preferences...

Hilarity ensues.

[Centa]

The biggest problem to deal with should be a eLylyth list. Ranged heavy's with stealth are pure pain.

In a 50pts game against eLylyth i expect 3x Ravagore and a Bolt Thrower, maybe a Scythean or Carnivean and some support models. Or he drops one heavy for Raptors+Annyssa.
With a list like this, he is able to do more then 50% damage to a heavy with ARM20 per turn, and can push one of them back with the Bolt Thrower.
This makes playing against it very annoying, you cant shot em, and he push you back out of charge range.

I would suggest a FourStar list against eLylyth. Just because you become access to WrongEye and Snapjaw. They are awesome against ranged list and get even better vs Hordes.

Thats what i would try.

Gorten
-2x Driller
Wyshnalyrr

Kayazy + UA
pAlexia

Rhupert
WrongEye
-Snapjaw
-BullSnapper
Lord Rockbottom
Thor
-Basher
-Blaster

Tactic:
Keeping SolidGround up and throwing Gorten with a SoG Driller at the Ravagores, with his STR 16 he can throw Gorten 9" (incl. the +1 for small model). Even without focus on Gorten he wont suffer much dmg (~4dmg. 9 in the worst case). After landing check if the Ravagores are in range, if you dont have to move further, you can sac your movment for an double barrel shot after your feat. Or use the movment to get back a few inches. Without counting deviation this is a thread range of 23" (9" throw, 4" move, 10" ctrl).
With these 8" more thread range you should be able to charge them with most of your models. Also its very likely to pull the beasts out of eLylyth ctrl, so they cant do much next turn. If you can catch eLylyth with Gortens feat its even better, with -3Def a boosted attack roll form a Driller should be able to hit her and then shes almost dead, thanks to sustained attacks.

With the BullSnapper, WrongEye can cast spiny growth on your frontline Driller to minimize the incoming dmg. And the BullSnapper is also nice for Solo hunting. With free charges and +2" movement against living and Torpid they are very furry efficient. WrongEye will not get in fury trouble.
SnapJaw keeps his animus up and walks each turn closer to his beasts, or you can use W&S + BullSnapper, to deal with the Raptors.

Rhupert gives tough or +1 DEF for the Kayazy. Gortens Solid Ground makes em immun against blast and KD. With that support they become a real pain to remove. Once you got them in melee they sit on DEF 16/17 (tough or not). Even with boosted hits his beast will struggle to hit them.

Alexia is a great and cheap tarpit unit, with the option to create a Thrall Warrior to run in melee with on of his beast each turn to annoy him. Or you can send them out to engage a Spell Martyr/solo (18,5" thread from any risen in her unit).

Rockbottom, Thor and his Jacks do what ever they do. Basher bashed, Blaster blasts.

[HeadHunter]

An axe to the face works every time.

Spoken like a true patriot of the Motherland

[baronvonchaos]

Centa, thanks for the detailed answer!

Is there a non-Rhulic caster that has an answer for this? I have Thor and an Avalancher... That's it for rhulic folks. I do need to expand my model base, but for now I think that I want to complete the 4* I'm working on. Expand and complete the Highborne, and move on to Rhul from there.

What do people think of pAlexia and steelheads/Croe/Kayazy? I can put pAlexia with the group and collect bodies as I go, turn them into thralls and charge the stealth heavies with a weaponmaster. Who cares if it dies next turn. 1 free weaponmaster charge is always nice. The threat range deal of the crafted thrall is what I'm looking for.

[MagnustheJust]

Centa, thanks for the detailed answer!

Is there a non-Rhulic caster that has an answer for this? I have Thor and an Avalancher... That's it for rhulic folks. I do need to expand my model base, but for now I think that I want to complete the 4* I'm working on. Expand and complete the Highborne, and move on to Rhul from there.

What do people think of pAlexia and steelheads/Croe/Kayazy? I can put pAlexia with the group and collect bodies as I go, turn them into thralls and charge the stealth heavies with a weaponmaster. Who cares if it dies next turn. 1 free weaponmaster charge is always nice. The threat range deal of the crafted thrall is what I'm looking for.

That could work well BVC... Just have some trial & error sessions to see what works best for you.