Sea of Units Problem

[Maddtrippin]

So last night I played my first two games as Cryx! I played an eGaspy 35 point list against a pStryker list. My first game I learned that medium based casters do no belong in the middle of your banes (pew pew = dead!).

I won the second game but I ran into some spacing issue. Here is my list:

eGaspy
Deathripper
Defilier
10 Bane Knights
10 Bane Thralls + UA
BLT
WWS
WSC

The problem I ran into was I has SO MANY units that I could hardly move them. He started by taking out BLT and tried to widdle away at my thralls, but they kept making tough checks. On a 4x4 table, how do you manage 30 models without having them all stand right of top of each other?

[Lamoron]

You play Terminus with 60 models a couple of times and then 30 models seems easy

[Gamingdevil]

Bane Knights don't care about terrain, meaning you can put them wherever you want. You should have plenty of space to put everything.

That said, it is a really bad idea to immediately start off by playing 35 points, or anything but a caster + battlegroup for that matter. It's hard enough to start out without having to manage that much beyond allocating focus, casting spells, charging, feating, etc.

[eddie]

2 ways. do the classic wave tactic where you stack the waves behind one another and eventually one will reach. or two keep them on opposite sides and assign them objectives. Banes go to that heavy, knights tie up that unit, tart help this unit, etc. etc.

[Sanctjud]

Space them out, play your units using waves.

eGaspy has caustic mist to rolling cloud his advance...so... unless B13 get a fire beacon behind the clouds, few things should be killing eGaspy/Tart as they should be hiding behind the clouds.

[Maddtrippin]

I tried to space out my thralls about 2 inches apart coming up the left side (which had a trench half way down the field) and tried to space the knights the same amount on the mid field with caustic mists in front of them (where the control zone was). I kept Gaspy near a forest on the right and had a defiler hang out on the right side of the field and the deathripper with WWS between the thralls and knights. WSC stayed back with Gaspy and BLT stayed towards the rear of the knights. I went first and turn one i ran everything up. Turn two is when there seemed to be too many models. His stormblades were hanging back out of threat range of the knights and B13 and the gun mages stayed back in the deployment zone with Stryker, squire and Ironclad. His hunter and lancer were a little in front of the deployment zone but mostly hung back. Turn three was a total mess because of charge lanes being gummed up by my own guys and I was worried about clumping because of earthquake.

[Vermithrax]

'ninja'd by others - stupid commute

Well here's my response typed in a vacuum:

Solid list.

Don't feel like you have to bunch up tightly. When I move my units I leave enough room for a model to pass between the others.

Fan out on deployment, be mindful of terrain. Your Bane Knights can move through anything so lining them up across from nasty terrain is a good plan. Bane Thralls have stealth so they love open fields to advance along.

Something like this on setup:


Bt - Bt - Bt - Bt - Bt - Df - eG - Dr - Bk - Bk - Bk - Bk - Bk
- Bt - Bt - Bt - Bt - Ww - Ad - Mv - Tr - Bk - Bk - Bk - Bk
---- Bt - Bs - Bo ----------------------- Blt - Bk


Get a feel for which models need to be up front, which should always be in reserve as a second wave, and which ones might need a path to the front line (Bane Lord Tartarus) but should stay behind.

Keeping your caster safe is an art. Distance is the best way to do this. Not always practical but its why we have arc nodes.

How did he take out Blt? New players tend to run Blt up front, lured by the possibility of making more banes. That's a good way to get him killed. Keep him in back. Blt is best played as a deterrent. Let the opponent charge your front line of banes and take them out. Then your opponent is sitting there to take a countercharge which Blt can participate in. I sometimes keep a lone bane in back just in case my opponent manages to wipe my entire unit.

You played against Cygnar and a ranged faction likes to give us trouble. But you brought two units that do well against range. Bane Thralls with stealth for obvious reasons and Bane Knights with Vengeance for more subtle, out of activation movement reasons.

Practice. One thing that helps my game is to practice my initial deployment and first turn move. I always try to do this with a new list. You don't need an opponent for this exercise either. A placement mistake made in initial deployment or your first turn move can have a snowball effect in turns 2 and 3. Once you've mock-played your first turn movement - ask yourself - are all your pieces where you want them? Do you have support in the right places? Which models are in danger? Are the models in danger the ones that should be in danger? Do you have enough spacing to run an arc node through a unit so you can land a debuff?

[Maddtrippin]

He killed BLT with his Hunter with boosted snipe shots. I thought I had him solidly behind an obstacle but was off by about 1/2".

The idea about practicing deployment and the first move is brilliant! I will definitely do that before my next match! Thank you for the suggestion!

[Iixil]

i would recomend taking your unit speeds into account for instance trade up one of your banes for blood witches or sat raiders even blackbanes could work out great while not blocking your own charge lanes. the speed differances will allow for both units to make full advances without landing on top of each other provided you dont walk into any bottle necks, but with raiders and knights even that should be a very rare problem.

and personally id toss the thralls

[AshenFang]

He killed BLT with his Hunter with boosted snipe shots. I thought I had him solidly behind an obstacle but was off by about 1/2".

The idea about practicing deployment and the first move is brilliant! I will definitely do that before my next match! Thank you for the suggestion!

Was something else occurring here, as BLT has Stealth.

As far as mixing up the speed a bit, I'm at times a fan of McThralls with Gaspy2, as then you can take a few Brutes, as long as they hit, they come out swinging hard from his feat.

[West996]

Are you playing objectives or straight up caster kill?

I know that as a new player you are tempted to forget about objectives and just play straight up caster kill but it really doesn't help things, especially when you are playing a ranged faction like cygnar. Playing against Cygnar with no objectives greatly skews things.

[Maddtrippin]

Was something else occurring here, as BLT has Stealth.

Completely missed that! He should have still been alive...oh well

Are you playing objectives or straight up caster kill?

We were playing #14 Restoration (two mortar locations and a control zone in the middle. destroy your opponents mortar and control the zone.) I had the zone controlled and had charge lanes to his objective when he forfeited.

[Rumor]

Were you playing a scenario? if you wernt then a Cygnar gunline can just hang back and blow you away, if you are then they have to get up close and personal or lose via scenario which is the great balancer in the game.

Download the SR2012 rules pack and play one of the more basic sounding scenarios.

You said this was your first two games with Cryx, have you played much in general or just new to our glorious faction?

[various]

i strongly advocate the idea of practising your deployment: you probably want a couple of different 'deployment patterns' for use against different types of opponent and depending on who sets up first (ie one for a ranged opponent where you are going first, one for a melee opponent when you are going second, etc). Deployment is often an overlooked factor in many systems but it really is one of the most inportant things that you can do: a bad deployment can turn a hard match-up into an impossible one. You may want to do this on your own, in a room with drawn blinds, and in secret to prevent other people making fun of you (it does look a little odd)! Always play for the scenario, if a Caster/Lock kill comes up then take it but it's usually easier to go for the scenario win, or failing that at least go after the scenario conditions to prevent your opponent winning (but doing that will usually get you a scenario win anyway). Between practising your deployment and playing for the scenario this should alleviate your unit congestion problems: by the time you allocate units to take the objective(s), to harass the enemy, to protect your Caster, and to cover contingencies you should have your forces fairly well dispersed. Your first two moves are pretty vital to getting things properly dispersed and putting your plan into action.

[Maddtrippin]

Were you playing a scenario? if you wernt then a Cygnar gunline can just hang back and blow you away, if you are then they have to get up close and personal or lose via scenario which is the great balancer in the game.

Download the SR2012 rules pack and play one of the more basic sounding scenarios.

You said this was your first two games with Cryx, have you played much in general or just new to our glorious faction?

Before those games, I had only played 3 prior games (Khador and Menoth played both sides). I couldn't stand Khador and Menoth seemed a little too focused on buffing a few things and relying on them to do all the work.

After my two games of Cryx, I am in. I love the way the faction plays. I now have 90 points of Cryx with pDenny, eDenny, eGaspy and eSkarre!

[Maddtrippin]

Were you playing a scenario? if you wernt then a Cygnar gunline can just hang back and blow you away, if you are then they have to get up close and personal or lose via scenario which is the great balancer in the game.

Download the SR2012 rules pack and play one of the more basic sounding scenarios.

You said this was your first two games with Cryx, have you played much in general or just new to our glorious faction?

Before those games, I had only played 3 prior games (Khador and Menoth played both sides). I couldn't stand Khador and Menoth seemed a little too focused on buffing a few things and relying on them to do all the work.

After my two games of Cryx, I am in. I love the way the faction plays. I now have 90 points of Cryx with pDenny, eDenny, eGaspy and eSkarre!

[Rumor]

Ok step down the game size then mate, play 15ish points for awhile and get bigger as you get more comfortable with the game, jumping in at 35 is never a good idea, too much going on, too much to track and you actually miss out on lots of lessons that smaller games teach you.