My first game with the Mountain King

[SgtPepper]

I finally got to play my first game with the mountain king last night. It was against a friend that plays another game mainly but plays Hordes every now and then. Not doing a full battle report, just some highlights with my experience with him.

My opponent ran a T4 Baranabus list

Barnabus
2x Wrastler
Ironback Spitter
Mangler (Not sure on the name, the small gator with the spiny growth animus?)

2x min unit gator posse
Full unit gator posse
2x croak hunters
min bog trogs

I ran Borka

Borka
Keg Carrier
Mountain King
Mauler

Full Fenns w/ UA
Fell Caller
Full KSB w/ UA
Sons of Bragg
Whelps

I went first and ran into position with the fenns, KSB, fell caller and Borka fairly central with the king slightly to the right flank and the Mauler and SoB slightly to the left flank. Fenns ran up to do their thing and screened the mountain king from attacks. On the turn I engaged the Fenns charged in, killed the 2 croak hunters and a couple of posse and wounded a couple more.

His next turn he wiped out pretty much all of my fennblades with his posse and a wrastler and regrouped his battlegroup just trying to avoid the mountain king. My next turn I actually did some pretty cool stuff. I activated Borka and cast Mosh pit. I had the fennblade that was close to a wrastler hit it just to knock it down. I then walked up the Mauler, threw up his animus and proceeded to chain attack the knocked down wrastler and threw him at Barnabas, hitting him and knocking down a couple of other models along the way. Next I activated the mountain king, threw up his animus and slammed my remaining fennblade that was engaged by the posse. I killed a few models and aimed my killshot at Barnabus hitting a pile of stuff that was knocked down from the throw including Barnabus. I then proceeded to sweep through the remaining posse and kill them all.

We called the game at this point because it was getting late and I had wiped out all of his posse, all of his beasts were dead or only had a couple of boxes left. It probably wasn't the best test for the king's true potential as he was a fairly new player to the game but I can see some of his merits. Kill shot can be nasty, I know his MAT and RAT are really low, but knocking stuff down with power attacks and mosh pit from Borka can really off set that.

I'm going to have to try to bring him out against a more seasoned player and see how he holds up. I'm pretty happy with the list. Sons of Bragg didn't get to do a whole lot this game, but they did pretty much trash a wrastler in one turn. I find that Borka synergizes fairly well with the king due to his feat and mosh pit being able to knock stuff down so the king can hit easier. Even if the mountain king isn't getting the best response from the community, it is still a great feeling seeing that big painted guy on the field of battle.

[MagnifaSnail]

Just fyi, I don't believe you would have been able to trigger killshot by slamming your own Fennblade. You have to destroy or RFP a living ENEMY model with your melee attack to get killshot. I don't believe collateral damage would cause it to trigger either. Also, Sweep is a power attack. You couldn't have performed a power attack Sweep after already performing a power attack Slam what with having already sacrificed your initial attacks and all. Buying extra attacks with your fury points is fair game, though!

[SgtPepper]

I triggered the kill shot after the sweep, not from the slam. I should have clarified that. Thanks for clarifying that, I'm still pretty new to doing power attacks. I didn't know you could only do 1 power attack a turn. So can he not sweep both fields in one turn?

[SgtPepper]

Ok yea so I screwed up. My bad. I honestly didn't know any better. I have pretty much never used power attacks before. Can he not do two sweep power attacks in one turn? If he can only do 1 sweep a turn that really kinda sucks

[Cannibalbob]

Other than a few rules mistakes it sounds like a good game. However, you had a pretty good match-up there due to the Gators not really having good access to heavy-hitters. They kill infantry and light/medium models like there is no tomorrow, but they begin to struggle against armored targets like heavies. Gargantuans & Colossals in general are just going to be bad news for Gators as they don't have very good ways to kill them. They will most likely have to try and battle around them.

[PG_petegrrrr]

Yeah, the gator lists are pretty pillowfisted, which greatly enhances the mountain kings survivability. Especially with barnabus. Maelok can at least lower armor. Unless their new warlock has fury or a damage buffing spell or feat, I think Bob is right in saying they will always hate playing against colossals.

[wargrim]

Well, Calaban could do some ugly thing with his dispelling and parasite, but besides that they have a hard time.

To Power attacks: to do them you have to forfeit your initial attacks, and your able to forfeit something only once. It's one sweep to the right OR one sweep to the left OR slamm.

[SgtPepper]

The guy I played is not a bad player at all, he's been playing Fantasy and 40K for years, he's just not too familiar with Warmachine/Hordes. I haven't really done too many power attacks. I play protectorate mostly and haven't been playing trolls all that long. I feel kinda dumb now posting that up from some of the comments (I'm talking to you Mountain King. I didn't cheat because I honestly didn't know any better at the time. And I'm sorry you find it "odd" but with how I play my protectorate I don't encounter a need for the power attacks all that often. Also I never had a negative opinion of my friend, I just said he didn't know the game that well) , but hey whatever, I know now so not a big deal.

I understand the rules now about the power attacks. It just seems like the colossals/gargantuans should be able to make two sweeps in a turn. Oh well. I'll tell him that I misplayed that terribly. It's not a big deal it was just a chance for us to hang out and have some fun, not a serious game. I appreciate you guys clearing that up for me.

[Cannibalbob]

The guy I played is not a bad player at all, he's been playing Fantasy and 40K for years, he's just not too familiar with Warmachine/Hordes. I haven't really done too many power attacks. I play protectorate mostly and haven't been playing trolls all that long. I feel kinda dumb now posting that up from some of the comments (I'm talking to you Mountain King. I didn't cheat because I honestly didn't know any better at the time. And I'm sorry you find it "odd" but with how I play my protectorate I don't encounter a need for the power attacks all that often. Also I never had a negative opinion of my friend, I just said he didn't know the game that well) , but hey whatever, I know now so not a big deal.

I understand the rules now about the power attacks. It just seems like the colossals/gargantuans should be able to make two sweeps in a turn. Oh well. I'll tell him that I misplayed that terribly. It's not a big deal it was just a chance for us to hang out and have some fun, not a serious game. I appreciate you guys clearing that up for me.

Rules mistakes happen. People are fallible and don't always know all the rules or details of rules - especially when the rules are new. It is not, nor ever should be, a big deal. Just learn from mistakes and press on. Games like this are meant to be fun and as long as both players are enjoying playing with their toys everything is fine.

[Beckman]

Well, Calaban could do some ugly thing with his dispelling and parasite, but besides that they have a hard time.

To Power attacks: to do them you have to forfeit your initial attacks, and your able to forfeit something only once. It's one sweep to the right OR one sweep to the left OR slamm.

Wow. Since I haven't been proxying up the Mountain King, and the Colossals haven't come around my area yet.... I didn't even put it together than Sweep is way worse than Thresher... That.... Sucks.

[SgtPepper]

It was just for fun and we both had a great time regardless. It was a learning experience and now I know. But I do agree with what Beckman says.

[PG_petegrrrr]

There is a mistake here.

Sweep does not cover only 1 field of fire, because sweep is not an attack with a weapon. Sweep is a power attack, which uses no weapons. That means it gets the normal melee range of the model, not restricted by the fields of fire.

So if you sweep, you sweep in a 180, but forfeit all other intial attacks.

Fields of fire only affect WEAPONS on the model, not non weapon attacks.

[Goris]

There is a mistake here.

Sweep does not cover only 1 field of fire, because sweep is not an attack with a weapon. Sweep is a power attack, which uses no weapons. That means it gets the normal melee range of the model, not restricted by the fields of fire.

So if you sweep, you sweep in a 180, but forfeit all other intial attacks.

Fields of fire only affect WEAPONS on the model, not non weapon attacks.

Has this been clarified anywhere? This is the first time I have seen it stated that that is how it's played.

[wargrim]

There's no need for clarification because petegrrrr got probably something mixed up. It's right in the rules for sweep. "This models makes one melee attack with the weapon against each model in the weapons field of fire..."

You use the weapon for a sweep and it is restricted to field of fire. What he's probably thinking of is that no effects of weapons carry over to power attacks. So no e-leap etc.

[SgtPepper]

I also want some clarification on what petegrrr said. To me it just feels like they should be able to sweep with both arcs. I'll have to double check the card but I'm pretty sure the sweep says something about the arc for the weapon stating the sweep is only for the 90 degree arc for left or right.

[Goris]

Eh, the statement is slightly ambiguous since it has 2 weapons, one in each field of fire. I don't see how it means both fields of fire and it refers to THE, not both or each or all. Considering the way fields of fire work it still doesn't seem to me like it is 180. Especially since it references the weapon, which is different then the power attack wording.

I really want it to be 180, but I have my doubts...

[Mountain King]

the only caveat I could see, is that when you make a sweep the left arc attacks left arc models, and right arc attacks right arc models all under one power attack.

I guess if this were true tho, it would just bring us back to what Pete was saying, and that wouldn't make any sense.

[Goris]

i guess if this were true tho, it would just bring us back to what pete was saying, and that wouldn't make any sense.

like i said, it's fuzzy.

[PG_petegrrrr]

Just double checked sweep, and sure enough, it does reference a weapon. I could have sworn it did not, but I was 100% wrong on that. It's clearly in there, and the wording is pretty specific.

Sweep is only 90 degrees. But don't worry, it still takes up all your initial attacks too....

Someone notify the zoo and inform them that my pandas may need serious consoling.

[Goris]

Yeah, thought so. Oye, you raised my hopes and and dashed them rather expertly there... Oh well...

[SgtPepper]

Sad day indeed

[Cleavelander]

Thanks for writing up your experiences Sgt Pepper. FWIW I learned a few things in this thread.

[longgoose]

"what?" I pause as I am dragging sgtpepper out to the street. "we don't shoot cheaters here?"

Lol sorry I had to write that.....

[SgtPepper]

Lol ha ha. Yes i'm in the process of trying to change my handle from SgtPepper to SgtCheater, it's not as easy as I thought it would be :P Outside of the occasional slam I really never use throws in protectorate because I rarely run 'jacks with an open fist. But after all this today and playing last night I see that is one of the strengths with trolls between a lot of open fists, long riders, and certain feats they just seem to want to use those power attacks a lot more. I'm glad I have learned what I did today so I can stop "cheating" now.

[Mod_Donaldbain]

let's focus on the topic at hand, shall we?

[jdripley]

Power attacks are what the Trolls are all about. Can't tell you how many games I've won by reaching into the Power Attack Bag-o-Tricks. Many many games I wind up in a tight spot, and often the direct approach simply won't work (hm if I kill this guy with a ranged attack... this other guy with a melee attack... might be able to charge with that model there... no, that won't work...) I pull out a Slam or a Throw or even a Weapon Lock and boy oh boy, the fun that ensues! Not only because the win is sweet, but because it's just fun to be doing those things. Most wargames don't allow you to arm wrestle the models, you know? Or pick them up and toss them. So it's great fun when you get to do that.

Won a game the other day by having my Mauler pick up Skarath and beat Ravynn to death with a pair of Throw attacks (over two turns, you rule people you). Nothing like getting whipped in the face by a 30 foot long poisonous snake of doom!

[tallted]

I thought sweeps used onky the str of the model. Does this mean he gets a sweep in one field with ps 19? I was thinking it was both fiekds, as long as the arm wasn't crippled using base str.

[SgtPepper]

It is just the STR of the model.

[DrFish]

There is a phenomenal difference between misplaying and cheating. Cheating implies dishonesty for personal gain. No cheating occurred. Your speeding example is flawed because the cop would give you a ticket regardless of intent, however if he/she thought you were genuinely unaware what the speed limit was you might not get a ticket. If you said, "yeah I knew what the speed limit was, but I was speeding anyway," you most assuredly would get a ticket. I googled the definition of cheating and every definition I saw mentioned intent. If you had to skip down to #5 definition just to find one ambiguous enough to suite your needs and skip 4 that mentioned malicious intent, then, well...

No, this has almost nothing to do with anything, but to label someone as a cheater who is not purposfully deceitful is disingenuous. And yes, just because you think that's what a word means doesn't make it so.

[SgtPepper]

I appreciate your support DrFish. Like Mod Donald said, let's just keep this on topic so we don't get locked.

[tallted]

So it specifies the weapon, but doesn't get the pow of that weapon and its limited to one field? Lament.

[Goris]

This is kind of crazy.... To make a sweep worth it, you need to make sure that you can hit and kill at least 3 models to make up for the cost of the fury. Not only that but they would have to be in the right field of fire. Oye....so limited...

[Gdead909]

Wow mk just went from meh to worse. Time to become a panda party planner cause there are gonna be a lot of pandas to cheat up lol

[Goris]

I wouldn't say that. I would merely say that knowing when it's worth using it is more important. Obviously his positioning matters and whether or not you can actually kill what you are engaging. Amuck helps and then the fury cost starts to normalize for what you can accomplish but it's still a situational ability. It's just not crazy like we were lead to believe by Petegrrr the weaver of lies...

[Mountain King]

This is where the MK's MAT 5 really starts to rear it's ugly head. Basically if the model isn't DEF 9 or less, Knocked Down, MK has Primal/Wild Agression, or can use a Power attack with Amuck he just really suffers to be an actual threat to anything. Having to boost all of your attacks with Fury is pretty much the suck and really limits the actual amount of dmg he can actually put out in a turn.

I don't remember where, but someone posted up the results of a straight up fight between Mulg and the MK. This mean no buffs of any kind, the numbers ended up being something like Mulg deals 45-46 dmg to MK and MK deals 35-36 to Mulg. I do not know if these number are actually accurate, but that is pretty bad that MK can barely kill a 34 box model when that same model does almost 1.5 times as much dmg to him.
Also note that one of the 7 attacks Mulg has is 2 less POW. If Mulgs fist was POW 19 he would also kill the MK. So if Mulg had Doomy there he would kill him with the affinity attack.

[Philipm]

Mulg outshines MK due mainly to MAT. On average with 7 attacks against Stormwall MK should miss 1-2 times which is ridiculus.

[Scottagain]

Seriously, only a single arc for sweep? I could only barely justify wanting this model as it was. I just can't afford to buy a model because it looks good if it can't even perform a single thing on the table well.

[Mountain King]

Seriously, only a single arc for sweep? I could only barely justify wanting this model as it was. I just can't afford to buy a model because it looks good if it can't even perform a single thing on the table well.

Now you know why he is SO bad for 20 points. He has the least amount of ranged ability, costs the most, has or is tied for worst MAT/RAT in combination, takes entirily way too much support to make him work properly. The MK is neat and his model is ok, it is not good enough to justify spending $130 on it.

[PG_Goldstep]

Sweep works like Trample and Slam in that, a person who wants to make sure they aren't slaughtered wholesale by it can make steps to avoid it, but now you are dictating where your opponent can comfortably stand.
See deterrent: http://losthemisphere.com/blog/22361

That said, the game I watched people spent a lot of time and effort looking at when he would sweep or power strike and the opportunity cost of doing so meant that although it was discussed in length at the start of the activation he could have, it never happened.

And I expect that to be the usual.
Any target he would want to slam away would be better served as a two handed throw unless there are just gobs of people behind the target, you'll more distance -- 7.5 inches (or more depending on buffs, up to 9.5) which is better than the all by the best powerstrike -- more control because it isn't directly away and you can boost both hits for one fury, so it gives you the same damage potential but on different targets.
I mean, if the target you really want is 3 or 4 inched directly behind the heavy you want to slam, go for it, but I don't expect to see someone open up for that.

[Funkylovebear]

have played wth the mnt king a few times and i have no issues with sweep being a single arc. with the 120mm and 2" reach it covers a big area. you just have to twist you facing