pKruger at 35?

[Obeisance]

Hey guys,

Taking pKruger/eKaya to a tourney next month and just need some pointers on a pKruger list.

I was thinking:

pKruger
- Feral
- Stalker
- Megalith
- Gorax
Stones
Stones
- Keeper
Grove
=35

3 Wolfriders
Feralgeist
=7

The idea is that Kruger deals so well with infantry, that I just need answers to heavies. Or I could go with Druids and fish for heavies. Does he really need a geomancer at 35? Could trade Mega for a Warden and Wilder?

Could run Gators or Wolfriders over a heavy. Or add Ghetto as he isn't in my eKaya list.

Thanks!

[mercury]

I subscribe to the theory that Krueger shouldn't be brought just to counter infantry-spam. Since Krueger himself is so good at clearing infantry, you can build a list around a number of more heavy-hitting options. You can manage perfectly well without a Geomancer, though I feel that your list is too Beast-heavy for the points level. My two favourite pKrueger lists at 35 points are:

Krueger
- Megalith
- Feral Warpwolf
- Gorax
Druids Of Orboros
Tharn Bloodweavers
Shifting Stones
Blackclad Wayfarer

Krueger
-Warpwolf Stalker
- Feral Warpwolf
- Gorax
Druids Of Orboros
Tharn Bloodweavers
Shifting Stones
Blackclad Wayfarer
Gallows Grove

The Bloodweavers and Feral are your Lightning Tendrils targets. A Primal'd Feral will wreck enemy heavies and the Bloodweavers can take on medium to heavy (living) infantry with their pseudo Weapon Master attacks and Gang bonus. You can bounce Chain Lightning off of the Stones or Blackclad Wayfarer. The Druids provide a screen for your army and can use Force Bolt to pull juicy targets out of position or Counter Magic to provide a little denial. Gatormen could be another option in place of the Druids if you don't mind playing with more of a tarpit up front. They can hit harder, but the Druids bring more utility to the table. Obviously the second list is better against opposing heavies as it includes a Warpwolf Stalker. You will lose one Chain Lightning per turn, but that list is probably closer to what you are looking for.

[Obeisance]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Mercury.

Krueger
-Warpwolf Stalker
- Feral Warpwolf
- Gorax
Druids Of Orboros
Tharn Bloodweavers
Shifting Stones
Blackclad Wayfarer
Gallows Grove

Druids I understand, but how useful are they without the U/A giving them Advance Deploy? I'm just thinking of the fact they'd need to run first turn to keep up with your heavies, instead of deploy 6" up, walk and drop a cloud to screen. I've played against Druids, I know their value.

As for the Bloodweavers, interesting call. Stealth, Pathfinder, Gang, Poison and buff stripping, magic weapons... and holy crap, the Deathburst is AOE 5.

Are the Weavers in there, for the utility they bring to the table?

Oh, and only one Stone set?

[mercury]

At 35-points things are a little tight! I think of everything I want in a Krueger army, and then prioritise.

The Bloodweavers are the best unit to field with him. They would be a truly great unit in general if they had Reach (to make Gang easier to pull off) or weren't just a bit poo against Cryx. Krueger at least mitigates one of these issues. I know that I want at least 1 unit of Stones (but can manage without the UA, since I may need to target them with Chain Lightning during the game). The Blackclad is the best possible target for Chain Lightning because he cannot be damaged by the spell and is incredibly mobile. The synergy with the Feral is well-documented, and I'm bringing a Gorax to ensure that the Feral can finish enemy heavies. I want a screening/tarpit unit too.

So far my list of 'must-haves' consists of:

Feral
Gorax
One additional Beast
Blood Weavers
Screening unit
Shifting Stones
Blackclad

That's a lot of points already taken up. Yes, I would like a Druid Overseer, but have come to manage without. I tried reducing Megalith to a Woldwarden in my first list, so as to include the Druid UA, but found that I wasn't getting on as well. Whilst not the heaviest-hitter out there, Megalith isn't awful as a back-up melee heavy (4 Fury, MAT7, P+S16) . A Woldwarden is awful in this regard though, so is pretty much just a 9-point Skarlock. In short, I was losing too much to warrant the inclusion of the Overseer. If you really don't like the idea of Druids without their UA, try Gatormen or Skinwalkers as a screening unit instead. You could fit a full-sized Skinwalker tarpit into my second list if you drop the Druids and Gallows Grove (or replace the Druids with min Gators and a second evil tree). The loss of the Grove would not be ideal though.

With regard to the Stones, sometimes 5 points is too much to be spending on support units in a 35-point list. I bring one unit because it serves a very definite purpose (Chain Lightning target, providing mobility for the Blackclad via Phase Jump). A second unit would be nice, but is far from essential when points are already tight. I don't know if I just need more practice with the Stones, but - as good a unit as they are - I can never seem to pull off anything spectacular with 2 units. As a result I tend to disagree with Skillt's 'always bring 2 units' mantra. I bring Stones when I have a distinct plan for them in my list. In fact, I am currently playing with a 35-point Mohsar list which contains no Stones (heresy!) because there are things that I regard as being more necessary eating up my points. In fact, in my Mohsar list I would need 42-points to consider the inclusion of Stones.

I'm not a Stone-hater though, I just don't see them as a default selection. My pBaldur Theme Force has 2 units because a Stone Skin'd Wold Guardian is so bloody slow without them, and my Morvahna list has 2 units too because I like to keep one unit near Morv as Sac Pawn targets and another unit behind my Skinwalkers to heal them. Maybe you could try that in your Krueger list? Choose one of my lists above, and replace Druids with a second unit of Stones and min Skinwalkers. A rapid-healing, Reach tarpit unit can be a big challenge for your opponent.

[Obeisance]

Tried out pKruger for the first time last night. Used that list, Mercury. Sadly, I didn't get to finish the game as the club was closing.

Opponent was running eVlad with a heap of infantry. Kayazi, Reavers, two units of Eliminators and Behemoth.

Bounced a Chain off a Stone, 6 leaps, killed 2-3 Reavers and 2 Eliminators.
Next turn, feated, killed 2 more Eliminators and 4-6 Kayazi.
4 model chain killed another couple of Kayazi and 1-2 Reavers.
Gorax tries to push Stalker, as I'm slightly out of range. Primals him.
I then remember what Druids do and I drag Big B over and the Stalker rolls crap.
As I'm about to try to send in the Feral, we call it there because the club is closing.

Man. Kruger feels unfair against Khadoran infantry. I cast Chain twice, for a 6 and a 4. I'm sure if I rolled poorly it would've sucked though. That's the nature of Chain.

The Bloodweavers didn't get to do anything, cause the electricity was frying everything.

[Bakemono]

Hrm. I'm of the old school mindset where Stormwrath "should" be brought primarily for killing infantrymachine armies. More often than not my two lists are either Epic Kaya/Stormwrath or Kromac/Stormwrath. The regularity of Warmachine Infantrymachine lists is still a given, and when someone dedicates themselves to a serious infantrymachine attack the best defense is a dedicated infantry killing list. Stormwrath is one of the best at this. These are our other good anti-infantry models that "I" like:

Warpwolf Stalker (warping for Berserk, Reach, he can literally mow infantry down)
Pureblood Warpwolf (his Rat may not be good but his spray tends to catch great numbers)
Feral and/or Ghetorix (Trample is your best friend with these brutes)
Megalith/Woldwarden (w/Stormwrath the Chain Lightning just keeps on going and the Megalith can debuff DEF to let your other guys hit high DEF infantry)
LOTF is great at hitting and slowing them down although he rarely makes my lists in low points games.
Gallows Grove for range extension
Shifting Stones for targets for Chain Lightning (*Stonekeeper isn't a good choice here since you don't want to Stealth a possible target)
Woldwyrd is often a good bet, but can miss. Most infantrymachine armies like to use upkeeps and when they do, you can kill three per activation of this boyo. Good magic suppression in low point games.

Druids who can actually tie up nasty units by engaging them and hitting Vortex. It is amazing how long your "effective" DEF-16 infantry can lock up some annoying Weaponmasters for your other stuff to take them out. Better to tie up or lose 7pt Druids than expensive Warbeasts busy killing said infantry. More to the point, with the attachment (although another +2) you can have them immune to the Chain Lighting you are hurling about. Countermagic can still be going while you tie people up with the others. And/of course you can choose to fight or push/pull. Options are everything. 35pts is pretty tight though. I always take them in an anti-magic list at 50pts, but I don't usually in 35pts.

My point is that when I take Stormwrath to a SR Tournament, he is there to do what he does BEST. He still has the tools to fight all sorts of things in the right mix. I'm not saying take nothing but Woldwardens and the Megalith. I'm saying don't take ANYTHING that isn't key at killing infantry. At 35pts I often take the following:

K. Stormwrath
Gorax
Megalith
Pureblood Warpwolf
Warpwolf Stalker
Shifting Stones
Gallows Grove
Thrullg

*The Thrullg is in there for the minor anti-magic use in low points games, and because many infantrymachine lists (Cryx in particular) like to bum rush you with a potent caster who is damn hard to kill. This deals with the Focus camping. He is also quite capable of killing infantry. My point is that the list above is a dedicated, albeit low point, anti-infantry army which ALSO happens to be good at fighting the other kind too. When I go to 50pts, it changes slightly. I add (because I like lighting spam) a Woldwarden, I drop the Thrullg, add the Druids w/Overseer.

[Obeisance]

After playing the infantry version, I think I'd probably prefer running mostly beasts at 35. Druids were pretty sweet, though. I hated Druids and Mittens as an opponent. lol.

I'm not sold on Thrulg, but that's more of a meta choice. There aren't a whole lot of Cryxians in my meta, probably like 3 players per 25 man event. One runs Terminus, one runs Venethrax, the other I suspect, will be bringing pSkarre/Scaverous. In retrospect, pButcher is pretty common and he tends to camp and run a lot. I see the value in Thrulg, but I'm not sure he's the best choice in 35.

I think I'd prefer to run something like:

pKruger
- Gorax
- Stalker
- Feral
- Megalith
Stones
Blackclad
Grove
Last point on either another Grove, Gobbers or upgrade Stalker to Ghetto. Probably stick to Stalker due to Pathfinder.

[deadnate]

I run this list for now.
Kreuger1 +5. (MAIN)
-feral warp wolf 9
-megalith 11
-Gorax 4
Skin walkers(3) 5
Gater men(3) 6
Shifting Stones
-UA 3
Gallows grove 1
Gallows grove 1
I like having the mega for geo and rough turrane. And the fearal to rib jacks apart and also the gater men and skin to just walk up and be meat shields while kruger just tears every one else apart.