Best Warlocks for 25 pt learner list

[montejello]

Fellow Blueskins,

I am new to hordes and the game in general. I dove in heavy spending buying most models after saving for a year. I have an opportunity to learn and play in a fun tourney that starts at 25 points. I have several warlocks and would like some pointers in the right direction. I get to build two lists and truly look forward to. My current warlocks are eMad, pMad, Borka, pGrissel, and Grim. Again I am not much to dominate as more to learn trollbloods and playstyle/synergy. Look forward to the community's input.

Thank you,
Monte

[rham7649]

I would start out with pMaddy he is a fun caster to play and he can get some killing done. My list at 25 would be
Madrak Ironhide, Thornwood Chieftain +6
Dire Troll Mauler -9
Troll Axer -6
Runebearer -2
Max Kriel Warriors + 2 Cabers + UA - 10
min Krielstone bearer + Elder -4
The kriel warriors with fervor and carnage are not struggling to hit and with the UA don't get knocked down if you tough out, sot he Fell caller would only be used for Pathfinder, so you could always drop the Stone and add him in there but I think the stone will serve you better. pMaddy really helped me learnt he basic ins and outs of our faction and I think he is a solid place to start as well as fun. His feat turn gets dirty if positioned right

[Old Man]

I agree with Rham, start with pMad. He will teach you our basic Trollness of Axe to the Face. Not only that, he is a fairly forgiving caster for just starting the game. He will allow you to survive if you make a mistake or two.
I am still fairly new, but I will suggest, after you get pMad down, then move to another caster. I try to play a caster for a couple dozen games before I move to a different one (some games don't go long enough to learn something new).
Take your time, enjoy learning the game, and keep your chin up. I've been playing over a year now, and still take a beating most of the time, but we do have some awesome players at our LGS.

[montejello]

Do you guys think making two lists with pMad then is the best idea? Or should I have a second caster to use for the second list? They want each player to have 2 different lists to play in the tourney. I see you added the Axer in instead of impaler. Is that to help deliver the DTM?

25 pts
pMadrak +6
DT Mauler -9
Imapler -5
Runebearer -2
Full Kriel +UA +Caber x3 -11
Min Stone Bearers + SSE -4

25 pts
pMadrak +6
DT Mauler -9
Imapler -5
Stone Bearers + SSE -4
Max Champs +10
Fell Caller +3

Thanks,
Monte

[FoolishSpriggan]

The Axer is there for Rush - arguably one of the best and most universally useful animii out there. Rush gives a model pathfinder and +2 speed for 2 fury; given that the only pathfinder-granting abilities in either list is the Fell Caller in the 2nd, the Axer is a must-have to be able to deal with pesky terrain and for the boost to speed. Beyond that, the Axer is a great melee light that can absolutely destroy most low-DEF infantry and enemy light beasts/jacks, and this becomes just disgusting with the Mauler's +3 STR animus thrown in.

I've seen pathfinder (or the lack of it) make or break games, and the +2 speed along with it gives either the axer, Madrak, or the mauler a very good threat range. I would drop the 3rd caber on the Kriels in the 1st/SSE on the Krielstones in the 2nd list to up the Impalers to Axers.

Bear in mind, I'm a Troll newbie too, but I have a lot of experience playing Khador & Circle, playing against Trolls, and with Rush in general thanks to being on the receiving end of numerous Skorne beat-downs (the Titan Gladiator has it, and it's considered one of the best beasts in the game partly because of it).

[nosrek]

Hey Monte,

pMadrak is a good place to start, but in your tournament its a good idea to take a different second caster. This serves two purposes, 1) gives you more options for taking on different opponents 2) Gives you a chance to see how much a caster can change the way an army plays.

Because you are new, it is good to get a handle on the basics of the army. A good player knows his stats and abilities from memory and is familiar with what each model is capable of. Now since you will have limited experience with the army, the best thing you can do is become familiar with certain models that will be used in the same list. Here is what I propose.

25 points Prime Madrak

pMadrak +6
Bomber -10
Impaler -5

Full Fennblades -8
*Fennblade UA -2
Full Burrowers -6

Now this is a slightly advanced list, but I feel as a new player all of these models are important to learn out of the gate. If you have questions about how to use or any of the rules associated with them, let us know. Another key thing with this list is it leaves out all the usual support pieces. One thing I feel is important about learning trolls is to not feel like you NEED all these support pieces. I think it is important to play with the built in rules of your models and see where they could use help, but always see if your warlock can fill that need before reaching for support models. Many times you can mitigate the need for support models simply by choosing the right targets for your units/models as soon as you see your opponents list.

pMadrak fills a basic role that both the burrowers and fennblades need help with. A mat buff, the key thing about his mat buff is it affects models in his control area. This is a double edged sword, because it can help both units at once, but its limited to enemy models in his 10" control area. This will help you learn when to move your caster forward and how to protect your caster.

The bomber gives you a ranged game and helps deal with high defense infantry and stealth infantry via his aoe's. The bomber will also help you learn how to gamble with fury because there will be many times you will want to max him out.

The Impaler gives you a situationally brilliant ranged slam, support in the form of a ranged buff (his animus), and a reach model to help protect your caster.

The fennblades have some built in buffs with their UA's minifeat and tarpit extremely well thanks to reach. Kriel warriors are a very good unit, however they are a bit more of a finesse unit. Fennblades have two basic rules to remember, vengeance and mini feat (No Quarter).

The burrowers are a great threat unit. Make sure you under stand how the burrow order works, we can help with that. Picking the right target for these guys is super important. If you see a jack with defense 13 and armor 18 that's a great target, when all else fails use these guys to tie up your enemies expensive jack or unit. Thanks to the burrow order you can get them into really annoying spots.



For your next list we will do something really fun...Just change the caster...

Grim Angus +6
Bomber -10
Impaler -5

Full Fennblades -8
*Fennblade UA -2
Full Burrowers -6

If you look at these two casters on a basic level you will see they play quite similar. Both will want to use their feat to help turn the attrition battle in their favor. Grim's feat will consistently be better (but pMadrak's feat tends to spike and be amazing some games) mainly because it has a defensive aspect to it.

When you see what your facing across the table, keep this general rule of thumb in mind.

If you see a caster with purification (the spell that removes upkeeps), play grim angus. If your playing against Cryx, play grim angus.

Beyond that go with your gut. You will find extreme armor difficult to deal with, but grim angus can slow them down and allow your to get more attacks against the higher armor targets. Assassination casters that cannot remove up keep spells will have a difficult time taking pMadrak down.

I hope you give it a try, and would love to hear how it goes.

[montejello]

That seems like a good idea and a great suggestion. The burrowers though. I read the write up on it and I am still a bit confused. What in the list helps against high defense targets when using them? It seems that anything with def 15 or more will pretty much be immune as I think I am missing the +rat +mat buff necessary to hit. Also the basics of deploying them and which are target rich environments for them (how to use).

Thanks,
Monte

[Cleavelander]

pMadrak uses carnage to give +2 mat to all friendly faction models in his control range. With point blank, the burrowers make melee attacks with their guns.

Grim, on the other hand, can give -3 def with his feat. Also, marked for death gives -2 def. So he effectively makes the burrowers +2,+3,or +5 mat.

[Sardonic Artery]

I learned with Borka and Grim. The former is more forgiving. I'd say Earthborn over Mauler then Fenns + UA over KWs/Champs to start first, too (though with Borka, the Mauler is better and easier to keep in control range).

[montejello]

I had fun playing using Nosrek's recommendations. I lost my games. One was due to time. Had it gone the next turn I would have had the caster kill since my opponents assassination run failed. In the end they totaled points by models killed. Lost by 1 pt with pMad. Second game was grim vs emorghol and I lost turn 4 assassination because of model unfamiliarity. Did not know he could prevent damage transfers so saving the fury and positioning would have been much different. I learned a lot. Mainly unlike cygnar my warlocks need to be much closer to the front lines and in the thick of it. Didnt get to feat or use carnage with pmad because i was always too far away. Also learned more on how not to use burrowers hahaha. Only change to list was ebdt instead of bomber because my bomber had not arrived on order yet. Overall had a great time losing! Looking forward to figuring out two 35pt lists next for pmad and grim for practice since 35pt is what most play at my LGS. Thank you to everyone who replied to my initial post. You are all tops!

Cheers,
Monte

[nosrek]

Glad to hear you had fun. Its good you got to play both warlocks, sounds like you got some good experience out of the games.

Determining how close your caster should be is a serious balancing act. As you learn the game more you will learn what your opponents threat ranges are and with some quick math you can determine how likely it is that your opponent can kill you, which will help you determine how many transfers you need on you and how far back you should be.

Its all about experience. Trolls have a steep learning curve, try to keep playing the basic models I listed above until your familiar with them (that includes the bomber once you get it in). When you get bored make a small change to the list, keep the change to 1 model/unit if you can. This will help you be successful in your future games.