Amon ad Raza 35 pt

[Blackyujiro]

So, I've come full circle back to PoM(my 1st faction). And, now that I understand the game much better than when I started, I'm taking up my favorite caster in the game again(I failed MISERABLY attempting to learn the game with him). So I've put this list together to be my second coming as a Menite.

High Allegiant Amon Ad-Raza
Dervish
Dervish
Vigilant
Templar
Templar
min Choir of Menoth
min Holy Zealots
Allegiant of the Order of the Fist
Reclaimer
The Covenant of Menoth

Ideally, I'll use the Templars as "Offensive Linemen" to take some heat off the Dervishes, as well as being viable threats, themselves. The Vigilant is there to guard the Reclaimer, or Amon(as needed). The Reclaimer waits for the Zealots to die, and grabs up some souls to alleviate the stress on Amon's focus. The Choir...well, they do what they do best. the Allegiant(who I have named "Black Dynamite", and modeled with an afro), runs around annoying peeps and tying up units with his stance. And finally, the Covenant make sure everyone stays on their feet.

So what do you guys think?

[Gaston]

I think you're going to be hurting for a Hierophant and Wracks. I ran a similar 5 jack list with him (x3 Templar, x2 Dervish). Basically on turn 1 you're going to want to cast Mobility (2) and run (5) on a 6 Focus caster...see the issue? Covenant is obviously good in every list, but this list can easily survive without it. Ad Raza doesn't suffer from KD and his feat will just stand up all the jacks.

[paradox]

Once Crutch-Free has passed, I think my personal challenge in 2013 will be playing Amon competatively. I'l be collecting ideas til then. I DO play him Crutch-free too, but it's just not the same.

I agree with Gaston, the hierophant/wracks do alot to help Amon. His lisst are balancing acts.

[Gaston]

I'm kinda tossing around the idea of taking Blood of Martyrs with him. Figure Pow 16 + 2 Choir + 2 Vengence + ~2 Synergy (realistic expectation) gives you a Mat 12 Pow 22, 10.5" with 2 initials and pathfinder. Seems decent in my head at least, pity you lose out on side step.

So I plan to toy with 2 Dervishes, BoM, and a similarly sized heavy, maybe FoS or SoH, etc. The way I'm attempting to approach it is with Synergy, you're trying to push your focus efficiency to the jacks; therefore since I'm casting this spell, I only need to allocate 2 focus to get the job done. Assuming that the Dervishes start off the chain, BoM gets up to the above mentioned stat line. That means that on the charge vs Arm 19, you'll be at dice +3, so 13 damage on the charge, 10 damage on the second initial, and 10 damage on a bought attack, for a grand total of 2 focus. In theory this means that on an average roll you'll scrap an average Arm jack by a margin of 1, a very tight benefit, which kinda highlights the problem and trap of Synergy in the first place. Then the next heavy will be +5 to hit and damage, putting our vanilla guys at Pow 22 again, and FoS/SoH at Pow 23 IIRC. Now you're somewhat compensating for the weaker off hand weapon, swinging at Pow 23 on the mace, pow 19 on the fist (IIRC on a Crusader/FoS stats). So on a charge with 2 focus, you're looking at 14 + 7 + 11 = 32 points of damage to an Arm 19 heavy, killing it on the dot with 2 focus. SoH does better since it's off-hand weapon is higher power. Obviously there is a very very slim margin again here, but you're tossing out 4 focus for the two heavies, 2 for Mobility, 1 for upkeeping Synergy = 7, and hoping that only 1 Dervish needs to charge to get range, since Ad Raza caps out at 8 focus before Feat or Reclaimer support.

The counter math: If you saved yourself the trouble and just gave the 2 focus to the jacks sans synergy (which you were upkeeping for 1!) you're now looking at BoM at Pow 20, dice +1: 11 + 8 +8 +8 = 35; 2 pts more damage on exact average rolls. FoS loses out more, going for Pow 20 then Pow 16, 11 + 4 + 8 + 8 = 31; missing the exact kill by 1 point on average rolls. So what is saved? Essentially 1 point of focus.

Given the super tight margin of error, I'd say Vassals are a must, but who wouldn't take them just solely for Enliven in this list? Also softening up a target at range would go a long way, i.e. Idrians and CRA, etc.

Apologies for the semi-circular, rambling post, sorta a stream of thought as I theory dojo on Synergy.

[Blackyujiro]

Thanks for the input guys. I do own the Hierophant, and it was a toss up between him and the "book". I definitely swap the Covenant out for him. I need a bit more practice with Wracks, optimal deployment and all.

@paradox: Hey, I just noticed you were from Detroit. I just moved from there(born&raised) to Austin. You one of the Pandemonuim crew?

[paradox]

I usually play at RIW, but my schedule right now has me playing hardly at all.

[Craaag]

For some reason I always thought Paradox was in Australia? What up with that!

Anyways, what do you guys think of a Castigator with Amon? I do like it myself. Synergy really alleviates it's biggest complaint (next to the charge combustion thing) in that it's POW 16 "pillow fists" actually become quite fearsome when you factor in choir and a few battlegroup Synergy bonuses. Instead of 1 POW 17 and 1 weaker off hand downy filled shield bash you get 2 equally smashy fists to put down some hurt. Plus you have that option to 2 handed throw which can be so huge when you start playing scenarios all the time.

That said I love the composition of the list. I think it's how Amon should be used with a Zealot battery of souls to fuel jacks. I would alter the following though.

1 Templar to castigator
Try to squeeze in max zealots and MB = 4 pts and I'm not really sure what to remove
Wracks = 1 more pt would need to go.

Remove Vigilant and Allegiant. Leaving a point to max choir I guess.

[paradox]

For some reason I always thought Paradox was in Australia? What up with that!

I'm worldwide, baby!