When to measure things

[arkol]

Hello there again. I've been playing a lot on Vassal, and I feel that in many situations people tend to facilitate measurements. However on an actual tabletop things aren't so simple so here's a couple situations:

a) I have a reach model with a ranged weapon they may or may not be in melee with an enemy. I wanna use my ranged weapon to shoot something else. Do I declare the ranged attack and then measure to see if I'm in melee or not? If so and I do find that I am in melee did I just forfeit my action or can I still attack in melee?

b) My opponent warcaster just put up Inhospitable Ground. My non-pathfinder model is clearly outside his control area but wants to move inside of it. When do you check if you're inside or not?

c) Same as the above but with an Earthborn Dire Troll. He only gets the SPD bonus if he starts his activation within 2" of rough terrain. Can you check immediately when his activation starts?

[PG_dbsmash]

a) You can measure your models melee anytime during its activation, so activate, measure, and then decide what kind of attack you want to do.
b) Your opponent checks anytime he is going to attempt to enforce the penalty of a distance based effect of his.
c) Yes, since the trigger is 'starts his activation', you are permitted to measure for terrain when his activation starts.

[PG_dungeongod]

Technically, you can measure melee ranges of your models at any time - but not of your opponent's models.

[Gamingdevil]

Technically, you can measure melee ranges of your models at any time - but not of your opponent's models.

That is what dbsmash said.
If neither you nor your opponent have Reach, measuring your own melee range is sufficient to know. Same situation if you both have Reach.
If your opponent has Reach and you don't, you can't take the shots, but unless you were at the .5" mark, you can't make melee attacks anyway and if you were, you'd know you were in melee range to begin with.

Now, the rulebook says a model in melee cannot make ranged attacks, while, at the start of your combat action, you may choose to make ranged attacks. I'm not entirely sure whether not being able to make your ranged attacks would give you back your choice, but I don't think it will. So no, if you want to make ranged attacks, but find out you are in melee you can not opt to make your melee attacks instead.

[PG_dbsmash]

That is what dbsmash said..

To be fair, I said 'during their activation'. It is true you can measure your own models melee ranges at any time, during activation or not.

Oops.

[vintersbastard]

Now, the rulebook says a model in melee cannot make ranged attacks, while, at the start of your combat action, you may choose to make ranged attacks. I'm not entirely sure whether not being able to make your ranged attacks would give you back your choice, but I don't think it will. So no, if you want to make ranged attacks, but find out you are in melee you can not opt to make your melee attacks instead.

The choice of making ranged attacks is not available. It's not so much a case of "getting back" your melee attacks but more of "never having lost them in the first place", so you can make them just fine.

[arkol]

Ok so for situation 2 how does this goes exactly? I'm moving my miniature, and whenever my opponent thinks I'm inside he measures it? What if I was already inside before he measured? What if I'm still not inside?

[Del Fuego]

Just announce your intention before moving. Most opponents will know to measure then to see when you enter rough terrain. If he doesn't despite your announcement, there's not much you can do but chalk it up to an "Oh well" as it is difficult to determine where you started exactly and when exactly you entered the spell effect range.

[solkan]

b) My opponent warcaster just put up Inhospitable Ground. My non-pathfinder model is clearly outside his control area but wants to move inside of it. When do you check if you're inside or not?

See page 75 of Prime Mk II. The example for Measuring Control Area is this exact situation--a control area effect that causes difficult terrain.

You declare your intent the move to a position or move a distance, then you and your opponent are forced to measure to see if the effect applies, and adjust your model's position if the move required is too much because of the effect.

[Crate123]

See page 75 of Prime Mk II. The example for Measuring Control Area is this exact situation--a control area effect that causes difficult terrain.

You declare your intent the move to a position or move a distance, then you and your opponent are forced to measure to see if the effect applies, and adjust your model's position if the move required is too much because of the effect.

So you can somewhat check where the edge is, move your model by 0.5 inch increments and your opponent will have to check often.

[Sinsation]

Something that I'm curious about, because I haven't seen it in play, people usually show control area and work with that:
Okay, so, if my model was trying to get through inhospitable ground, but turned and changed direction inside of it, in a sort of L, but then finds out he's in control area. Do I rewind until movement was all used up, or do I get to adjust and try to just go directly towards target area? I'm guessing the former but curious.

Also, it seems like you're forced to do the whole move before you check Crate, since you're committing to the movement? Not sure.

[xJEDIx]

Read the example on page 75 and interpret it literally, please!

From the book:
The opposing player will have to adjust his model's position after completing its movement if it entered the warcaster's control area and had its movement reduced by the spell's effect.

So, that's plain and simple:
-announce movement/charge/run/whatever
-move the " total distance
-opponent check Control Area
-ajust the model to new position with Movement reduced

[Houston]

There's a good writeup here: http://handcannononline.com/blog/201...hordes-part-1/ and here: http://handcannononline.com/blog/201...hordes-part-2/ regarding when to measure and how to do so.

[Crate123]

Why do I suddenly have to announce my full movement just because you have a CTRL are effect spell ?
I never have to do that otherwise, so I very much doubt that just because a model in your army casts a CTRL area spell then I suddenly have say exactly where my movement will end up.
Normally you're allowed to move 2 inches, check your own CTRL area, measure your melee range, move another 2 inches and do it again, this doesnt change just because you cast a spell.

Im not saying its definately so, I just question whether commit to a move is my full move or any fraction of my move I want it to be.

[poeticruse]

It's the full move. You cannot exploit small movements to force your opponent to show you where their control area begins.

You can still move in segments, but only after the movement is entirely completed does your opponent determine for you where/when you entered the area, and reduce your move accordingly.

That said, the game requires sportsmanship and co-operation. That applies to both the moving player, and the measuring player. Arguing over this in order to derive measurement benefits, or to stifle your opponent excessively (forcing them to place dozens of bases to manage a movement) would be the kind of thing you have to decide for yourselves, in a friendly game, or should be adjudicated by a TO/EO, in a formal setting.

[arkol]

On a related note, do you pre-measure to models inside clouds/forest to know if you can actually seem them and THEN declare charges/ranged attacks or how does that work?

[Valander]

On a related note, do you pre-measure to models inside clouds/forest to know if you can actually seem them and THEN declare charges/ranged attacks or how does that work?

Yes, you can measure from the edge of a forest to a model inside it up to three inches to know if it is possible to draw LOS.