eGrissel hate on??

[Dannyswag]

So i haven't used her yet because i have only played 4 games (won 3 of them) so far with pMadrick. Can someone explain why everyone seems to hate eGrissel because i am interested in trying her out.

[Cleavelander]

Who hates eGrissel?

[PG_thegreatblah]

Well I wouldn't say 'hate' so much as disappointed that eGrissel isn't at least as good a pGrissel.

[Apollo]

I am just giving eGrissel a try. I run her with a lot of beasts, with whelps support.

With this arrangement, she rarely casts a spell, and uses her fury for mainly far strike + ROF3.

Take a peek at this recent Battle Report I did with her to see just the sort of ranged output that eGrissel can put out:

[PG_thegreatblah]

There is no doubt at all that by herself she can put down some serious ranged pain, she isn't bad per say I think many of us were just expecting something else.

[Dannyswag]

i cant find the forum post anymore but i had read that some people were griping on eGrissel. im thinking of doing the following list:

15pts
eGrissel (+6)
impaler 5pts
EBDT 10pts
troll whelps 2pts
Janissa 3pts

EDIT: im trying to incorporate stuff i already have as i have purchased the warpack, trolls and janissa already

[PG_Viper114]

In comparison to pGrissel, she's not as good. But, she's decent. She has a lot of good stuff going for her, and I enjoy playing with her.

[Crate123]

Its just like thegreatblah says, pGrissel was a fantastic infantry caster and we all expected more of the same and we did not get it at all.
She actually became a worse caster by going epic, that doesnt happen too often.

[wargrim]

I like her and think she's decent. But I won't deny that I thought she's 'meh' before playing her some time and still understand if people don't like her.
She's worse than pGrissel, but pGrissel is a great caster, so it's not like that makes her bad. She's no where near to Gunny.
Her biggest "fault" is that she isn't flashy in any way. She does exactly what on the card and nothing more. If you think there is a sneaky power combo of DOOM! with her and anything in this faction, your probably wrong.
But then she's really hard to deny. If your enemy can't be shot or is stealthed, she has a a spray and covering fire. If your opponent has high def, she has blasts and knocked down. Your opponent is faster? Try inhospitale ground. He tries to tie you up or threats with free strikes? Dash!

That aren't great things, and pale to the tricks of Jarl, Grim and such. But in all er simplicity she's just solid. At least in my little world.

Oh and never leave without the krielstone and impaler. She needs snipe and most of the time has to much fury.

[Syas]

I have run her once myself (which isn't saying much, I have played Trolls less than 20 times and have 7 Warcasters), I ran a little more infantry heavy than what is shown above, I actually ended up running her with a full Tuffalo Unit, and a full unit of Champs + the Hero, Min KSB, an Impaler and a Mauler.

She performed pretty well, but feat turn put some hurt on my opponent. Not only was I running multi-wound models, but by the time my Champs got into the fray with my opponent, there were Armor 22 (16 + Stone + Defensive Line + Unyielding). That made things... difficult for him, if he ran he would get WM Free Strikes, if he stayed he was Dice -11 to for damaging the Champs if I recall correctly. She ended up pulling off the Assassination solo.

Are there better lists out there for her? Absolutely; but I ran this one, and I felt she performed well.

[Mountain King]

I don't think people hate her, she is just so meh and people were really excited for her to be going epic.

The biggest thing she has going for her is also the biggest thing working against her. That thing is her gun, it is non-magical which can be a problem, the biggest drawback is that if you are going to take more than 1 shot with it you are forced to use a different shot type. Clearly the KD shot is money, the others are descent at best.

Her feat is also very weak, and this is really compounded by Gunn, Jarl, and her all having very lackluster feats. To the point of basically not having a feat at all.
She also lost her signature spell Calamity, which I think if she still had it would make her an amazing choice.
Gaining Inhospitable Ground really doesn't help since PP went on a huge bender of handing Pathfinder out like candy on halloween.

As many others have said, I think people are just more disappointed with her than they generally dislike her. That is due to the direction or lack there of that she took.

[PG_somnicide]

Check the sticky, there is an awesome eGrissel write up there written by a very handsome and witty gentleman.

[omerplata]

I have played her only 3 times myself, and each time was a win. Even with winning though, each game felt like having her really did nothing for me. My army did all the work, with eGrissel merely handing out animus and collecting fury. I never needed to, or felt like casting any of her spells would actually have an effect on the game situation. And her feat really did nothing for me at all.

I don't hate her or think she is bad, but every time I used her I got the overwhelming feeling that anyone of our other casters could support and do more for the army. I felt like she was just there watching it all rather than actually contributing.

[FranzGrenstein]

I think the best way to play eGrissel from the times I have played her is: ignore the feat.

Don't build around the feat, build around her spell list. I played her with the opposite thing I would take for the feat, Fenns and the like...I have to say I was suprised (in a good way.) Locking down the heavies with inhospitable ground, jamming with the fenns and then walking through freestrikes.

She is the bait and switch caster to me, you have a "pow 14 ROF 3" gun; in actuality you have a 2 pow 12 shots and a pow 14 shot. Here is a feat that does not work with your spell card.

1)Her feat is not awful it's like Vyros' feat it relies on the opposing force to work, if it granted steady as well... then again if wishes were horses, beggers would ride. It is a feat better suited on a beast caster imagine Doomy popping it. eGrissel wants to run infantry, my opinion.

2) She has a "bait and switch gun," what I mean by that is you see this gun all nice and shiny: ok range, good pow, aoe, and ROF 3 (what?) with special ammo. You think in your head I can spam this pow 14 three times...wow.
Only you can't you can take one pow 14 shot, then the next one will be a pow 12, or has to be a spray pow 12. Since PP seems to be forcing trolls into the shooting roll, why not give her the option of not using the ammo at all.

She is an ok caster, and has impressed me what little I have played her. She has some glaring flaws.

Ten Characters

[HellecticMojo]

She's my favorite caster, but she functions best at higher point games where you can really include the support elements needed to make up for her lacking abilities.

She plays very finesse though.

[TimBuckToo]

Where or where do you get those ring templates?

[Gdead909]

So do u guys think she works better beast heavy or with heavy infantry?

[jdripley]

Her feat indicates that you want heavy infantry. Her spells favor lots of infantry (which means taking light infantry). As far as beasts, well you ought to take the Impaler for extra range on her, and you need something in the army to crack high ARM, especially now with Colossals and Gargantuans out there. So you kindof want a bit of everything. My use of the feat is to just forget Hyper Aggressive and take the +2 ARM for models that are engaged. Generally Trolls want to be in melee anyways, with practically any other warlock I'd be jamming anyways, so why not also jam with her?

While jamming, Dash and her ability to give freedom from free strikes is absolutely amazing. For some reason this never gets any press time. Once you're jammed, the jam itself becomes a catch 22. Yes you've mucked up their lines with your Kriel Warriors. But... your Kriels are also in YOUR way too! Not so with eGrissel. With one simple spell you can re-position your army, freely slip through holes in their lines to get at squishy support models, and then bring in your second wave, often on the charge, at whatever is left of their front line.

Solid Ground. "Useless because all of the important models have Pathfinder." Yes, but no also. Many armies must invest somehow to get Pathfinder. So simply making their caster cast a spell to negate your spell works in your favor, for example. Against some armies you're just not going to bother casting Solid Ground. No, that doesn't mean it's a waste, that means you've got some extra free focus for animi or boosting her ranged attacks. Against some armies you're going to cast Solid Ground and crush their ability to engage you on their terms, and that will be worth solid gold.

Ranged Attacks: Especially with the Impaler, eGrissel has incredible range for a Troll. She's also got 3 attacks, so when you really need to lay out some damage, you can invest her fury in that. I think it's safe to say that she's got an option for most situations, and that's worth quite a bit. She can lay down a template, knock stuff down, hit hard, or lay out a huge spray. Don't feel like you've got to use all 3 attacks in a turn to be getting your value out of her. One attack is fine (pick which is best for your plans - the template to discourage a charge from light infantry, the knock down attack to set up a kill for your beast or something). On the other hand, if an enemy caster is foolish enough to wander too close, don't be afraid to dump all 3 of her attacks onto them for a sonic win!

Theme: Honestly this is where I think most people get a bad taste in their mouths. pGrissel is a fantastic infantry 'lock. In MkII she's a little more capable with beasts too, which is just icing on the cake. So we hear about eGrissel, the Marshal of the Kriels, and we all thought that she'd have even more awesome focused on leveraging the power of our units. And in the end, we just didn't get that. I know that myself, that put me in a bit of a tailspin. "But.. how am I going to make our infantry amazing with eGrissel???" eGrissel really isn't focused on abilities that buff up our infantry, but she basically takes personal responsibility for the welfare of her soldiers. Since Madrak is off and away, she must lead the charge herself in his stead. She is far more offensively oriented than pGrissel. She's taken her skills as a fellcaller and refocused them - no longer on inspiring her allies to great feats of martial strength, but now on shattering her enemies herself.

Final thoughts: She plays very different from pGrissel, and in fact very different from most Troll warlocks. She requires a different approach, and she's not what you expect out of a Grissel, so it's understandable that most players just don't get her at first. I know I didn't. But put her on the table, and you'll see that she has some good tricks up her sleeve.

[jdripley]

Her feat indicates that you want heavy infantry. Her spells favor lots of infantry (which means taking light infantry). As far as beasts, well you ought to take the Impaler for extra range on her, and you need something in the army to crack high ARM, especially now with Colossals and Gargantuans out there. So you kindof want a bit of everything. My use of the feat is to just forget Hyper Aggressive and take the +2 ARM for models that are engaged. Generally Trolls want to be in melee anyways, with practically any other warlock I'd be jamming anyways, so why not also jam with her?

While jamming, Dash and her ability to give freedom from free strikes is absolutely amazing. For some reason this never gets any press time. Once you're jammed, the jam itself becomes a catch 22. Yes you've mucked up their lines with your Kriel Warriors. But... your Kriels are also in YOUR way too! Not so with eGrissel. With one simple spell you can re-position your army, freely slip through holes in their lines to get at squishy support models, and then bring in your second wave, often on the charge, at whatever is left of their front line.

Solid Ground. "Useless because all of the important models have Pathfinder." Yes, but no also. Many armies must invest somehow to get Pathfinder. So simply making their caster cast a spell to negate your spell works in your favor, for example. Against some armies you're just not going to bother casting Solid Ground. No, that doesn't mean it's a waste, that means you've got some extra free focus for animi or boosting her ranged attacks. Against some armies you're going to cast Solid Ground and crush their ability to engage you on their terms, and that will be worth solid gold.

Ranged Attacks: Especially with the Impaler, eGrissel has incredible range for a Troll. She's also got 3 attacks, so when you really need to lay out some damage, you can invest her fury in that. I think it's safe to say that she's got an option for most situations, and that's worth quite a bit. She can lay down a template, knock stuff down, hit hard, or lay out a huge spray. Don't feel like you've got to use all 3 attacks in a turn to be getting your value out of her. One attack is fine (pick which is best for your plans - the template to discourage a charge from light infantry, the knock down attack to set up a kill for your beast or something). On the other hand, if an enemy caster is foolish enough to wander too close, don't be afraid to dump all 3 of her attacks onto them for a sonic win!

Theme: Honestly this is where I think most people get a bad taste in their mouths. pGrissel is a fantastic infantry 'lock. In MkII she's a little more capable with beasts too, which is just icing on the cake. So we hear about eGrissel, the Marshal of the Kriels, and we all thought that she'd have even more awesome focused on leveraging the power of our units. And in the end, we just didn't get that. I know that myself, that put me in a bit of a tailspin. "But.. how am I going to make our infantry amazing with eGrissel???" eGrissel really isn't focused on abilities that buff up our infantry, but she basically takes personal responsibility for the welfare of her soldiers. Since Madrak is off and away, she must lead the charge herself in his stead. She is far more offensively oriented than pGrissel. She's taken her skills as a fellcaller and refocused them - no longer on inspiring her allies to great feats of martial strength, but now on shattering her enemies herself.

Final thoughts: She plays very different from pGrissel, and in fact very different from most Troll warlocks. She requires a different approach, and she's not what you expect out of a Grissel, so it's understandable that most players just don't get her at first. I know I didn't. But put her on the table, and you'll see that she has some good tricks up her sleeve.

[PG_thegreatblah]

Where or where do you get those ring templates?

At a craft store, my sister makes dream catchers out of them.

[PG_DocEther]

I've had some mixed results with eGrissel, but definitely like her. I'll echo what jdripley said. She needs a good mix of everything and really needs to be played aggressively. Champs under her feat are just awesome. With a hero that can charge through them ignoring free-strikes? Yes please.

[EvilFuzzyDoom]

So do u guys think she works better beast heavy or with heavy infantry?

I'm of the opinion that she should be used with some combination of light beasts and heavy infantry.

I think she's a capable board control caster who is a couple of synergies away from being good - at present she's just okay. She hits like a truck in melee and doesn't require buffing to stay alive (which is neat), and she can pick and choose where the opponent can engage her to get the most out of her feat (using Crescendo and Inhospitable Ground).

But I do think she's missing that serious "IT" which makes her a good competitive caster. She's okay, but I think she lacks the real impact on the game that her Prime iteration has. I'll be keeping an eye on Colossals to see if we get anything gold to help her out - maybe a denial solo or another multi-wound melee unit.

[The Happy Anarchist]

I do agree that she is very survivable, in fact my two test games were won by failed assassination runs - but how does she hit like a truck in melee? Pow 14 isn't really that impressive to me...

She was just so boring when I played her that it may have influenced my opinion a great deal. I still don't feel she brings much to the table, and I was one of the people that was loudest to give her a chance. She just didn't live up to my hopes, completely aside of hoping she was an infantry caster or anything.

[PG_DocEther]

I do agree that she is very survivable, in fact my two test games were won by failed assassination runs - but how does she hit like a truck in melee? Pow 14 isn't really that impressive to me...

I hate saying it, but it's all in the buffs. Plus Rage and KS UA buffs she's sitting pretty at Mat 7 P+S 18 with Crit Smite. Plus a Fellcaller and she's suddenly MAT 9. Plus Dash and She's speed 7. You might now have all those buffs available in every army list but you're sure to have at least something to get her up there.

With a lot of our melee casters people see the hurt coming. eGrissel could surprise people with how quick and hard hitting she can be. Even if you opponent plays conservatively you can punish them with her ranged attacks. I like having those options.

[JArrow]

Final thoughts: She plays very different from pGrissel, and in fact very different from most Troll warlocks.

I think that is the key line from all this conversation. She is not what people expect from her. But more I play with her, the more I love her.

[James_Rayner]

I, among others, thought she was extremely meh and was dissapoint when she was released. However, the artwork and the fluff gave me the incentive to go ahead and try her out.

The games that I did have I really enjoyed. ranged assassination is potent, plus the extra oomph she gives to infantry with dash is pro. The feat is extremely lackluster as you can see, but an extra 2 armour from engaging is semi decent. Hyper aggressive will never happen so meh.

All in all I find her extremely fun to play with and she brings a few nice tricks to the table. Having a pseudo mage storm is nothing to complain about.

[ToughRolls00]

I almost won a 15-point Mangled Metal tournament in my local meta running EGrissel. At such low points, it was hard for a lot of armies to deal with Inhospitable Ground, so that was fun! **evil laugh** The last game was against Retribution, and I made some mistakes in that game and lost.

That being said, I haven't played EGrissel in a long time not because she's bad but because I like other casters better.

[Dannyswag]

So i finally had a chance to play eGrissel and i think i see what everyone is talking about. I trounced my buddy 3 games in a row. At times looking back i think that with the list i had almost any caster could have done just as well. However there were a couple small things that really helped me out.

Inhospitable Ground was interesting as he only had pathfinder on half his models. So stopping pSkarre from rolling in popping her feat and getting +5 str charge on me was totally invaluable. I know a lot of armies have pathfinder and thats fine. I never relied on it but always used it if i thought it would help. Dash was handy to get my runeshapers up in the front along with Janissa.

Having four light warbeasts worked out better than i thought and after i killed his Harrower in one turn he learned to fear my slag troll. (granted it took more than just the slag troll to kill it but it certainly was a contributing factor.)

I started to realize what parts of my army were really important based on which units he would go out of his way to kill and go out of his way to deploy away from.

That being said i think im going to keep playing eGrissel for a bit longer. I have a tourney at the end of the month and that will be a good true test.