Rant cause I do not know where else to put it

[DeathInFrance]

What other products does this store sell? Is 40K the only miniature game they sell?

Hahaha, I was just thinking this. Are we sure it isn't a Games Workshop store? (For the record I'm sure the OP is smart enough to know)

[RidetheLightning]

@ OP: I wish you, your brother and son the best of luck getting a community built. I work for my LGS and I've been in a similar predicament in the past. The advice given so far to just play whenever possible, show others YOUR interest in the game (it sounds contagious) and be polite about other gamers' choices is the best advice you can take from your post. WM/H is an excellent game and given a chance, will support itself! Have fun!

[PG_Kaptajn Congoboy]

So that's the reason Sweden steals all our thunder when people are talking about the growth of WM/H sales in Scandinavia, even with the growth of the norwegian WM/H community

[Mastervalrik]

Hahaha, I was just thinking this. Are we sure it isn't a Games Workshop store? (For the record I'm sure the OP is smart enough to know)

lol, no the store is not a GW store nor a bunker store, closes GW store is 2 hours away.

[CrypticApathy]

One of the LGS which i no longer go to but i started playing Warmahordes there, we had a smaller player base maybe 6 of us total. We asked the store owner to get more PP products so we could buy from him instead. He told me that the reason he doesnt really pack PP products there is he got burned on thousands of dollars a while ago from it. When warmahordes came out he had tons of people looking to buy in to it, and he would place pre orders and stuff for people and they would pay up front for the product. But since everything was so back logged that 90% of them asked for there money back after waiting months for it. So he sees it as a financial risk to buy in to PP product.

I now frequent another LGS that has really good support for PP products, but i cant blame some store owners for not wanting to jump in to PP due to alot of them probably having a similar experiences to what that store owner had.

[Lich_Lord_X]

Speaking of stores that only support one game or another I've been looking for stores near me at school and I found one and their website only makes mention of 40k weekly and monthly events. It would be incredibly frustrating to find out they only cater to 40k.

[Hoyled]

My lgs owner still isnt exactly thrilled when people order PP stuff. When I was starting out and trying to get a khador army started Id have him order a decent sized list. Id come in a few days later and he would tell me that 90% was out of stock with no resupply date. This was of course during the great PP drought and isnt really a problem anymore. Still it left a bad impression on the owner.

[Dan from Chicago]

Remember that all the stock in a store is an investment by the owner, and then you may understand why someone might be reluctant to branch his business out into a "new" game (that is to say, one that's not played there already).

You need to find people in the area who already play, and go play there. Ask him if he'll special order the product you need - that way, he's not taking a risk on stock that might not sell. Look at this from a business perspective and you just might find it mutually beneficial.

+1!

I'd say give the business owner the benefit of the doubt. He certainly knows his situation better than you do

I've seen poor stocking decisions seriously hobble a game store before.

[BryanC]

Its a great time for people to come to PP from 40K. I suggest you go to this store and play games, run demos. Be extremely outgoing and always explain the game to anyone interested. Over time you will find new players.

This is a great opportunity for you to create your own peer base.

[Mastervalrik]

+1!

I'd say give the business owner the benefit of the doubt. He certainly knows his situation better than you do

I've seen poor stocking decisions seriously hobble a game store before.

Have no problem with what he carries in his store, it is his store, and for most part better deals can be found on line, I am just floored that he is closed to a demo game for another game, I know alot of people who play 40 something and Warhordes together, my son has a Bloodtrolls army he is working on and a Tau, my borther has Protect and Space Marines, friend at work Circle and Cryx as well as Space Marines and Guard, short is both can be played no problem with it, if he doesnt want to carry no biggie.

[HeadHunter]

My lgs owner still isnt exactly thrilled when people order PP stuff.

Can't see why any business owner would NOT be thrilled when people want to BUY something from him. Yes, it might once have been hard to obtain, but what does he lose by trying to fill a special order?

[scout's honor]

Can't see why any business owner would NOT be thrilled when people want to BUY something from him. Yes, it might once have been hard to obtain, but what does he lose by trying to fill a special order?

Things still aren't up to snuff, at least around here. My FLGS pools what they can get their hands on with another handful stores and it's still quite hard to get anything that's not recently released (Stormwalls out the wazoo, but other than that only between 10 and 15 pips in stock for Cygnar for instance). And when special orders take forever, it reflects badly on them and on the hobby, not just on PP. That's not exactly fair, but it's a fact. I'm in Central Europe and although I know some stores across the continent seem to have very few problems, Cerberus is just not stepping up as far as we can tell. And if customers go from playing at your store with products they bought at the store to playing at your store with products they bought online it can hit your bottom line quite hard. If a store owner doesn't want a product line he can earn serious money from getting popular among his customers I can't say I blame him.

[MediumYellow]

They may have never heard of Warmachine or Hordes, and didn't like the idea of spending cash on an obscure game.

There is the other possibility that they don't want to admit that their favorite game company doesn't care about making a good game, so after spending thousands of dollars they don't want anyone coming and showing them that they could play an effective hordes list for like 150-200$ in a game system that makes sense.


I hope one day in the far future PP will buy GW and make 40k playable.

[PG_relasine]

I hope one day in the far future PP will buy GW and make 40k playable.

I don't know if that's really fair. I'm not the biggest fan of what Games Workshop has done with 40k, but I think that it's because the game isn't for me. I'm looking for a finely-tuned, competitive rule set with cutthroat action and dynamism. I think Warmachine/Hordes are that game. On the other hand, 40k 6th (by my reckoning) is a beer-and-pretzels game that is more about spectacle than it is about being a great tournament-style game. These qualities don't make 40k a bad game, they're just not the qualities that many of us want.

[King-of-Storms]

I hope one day in the far future PP will buy GW and make 40k playable.

I'm going to pretend I didn't see that. Honestly let GW implode in on itself, taking 40k with it. (Fantasy and LOTR can stay)

You can bet this place won't stay in business for too much longer if they're going to be so close minded as to stick their nose up to a game like Warmachine in typical 40k snobbery. It's among a plethora of reasons why I've quit 40k altogether...the friggin community sucks. I say this from experience.

The only problem I have with the Warmachine community is they're a little bit thin skinned but don't berate and "look down" on other games like most 40kers. I'm at home here, if I can keep my big mouth shut...

If you're near NC there is a wonderful store here who welcome all games, even the most obscene...

[Rukus]

Just depends on where you are from. The GW community we had here only went down hill when GW got rid of all their staff and moved the store hours, and fired the people who really had a good passion for the game. Now they have one guy run the entire operation here, maybe two now hopefully they figured something out with that as they were store hours suck, and the play space isn't very good either. But I didn't mind the people that were there. What sold me on WM/H is the fact that I had a buddy come over during one of our 40k nights at my place and just show me his skorne army and give me a run down. I then researched the hell out of it bought my battle box of Cryx and rule book and was sold from then on. I was amazed how much fun the game was, and how good the gaming was. It was hard to make the adjustment at first, but after that I couldn't go back to 40k it just didn't have the same appeal. I then passed this on to a good friend of mine and we converted his Tau into a WM faction lol. We play tested them, made cards, as he wasn't big on spending money on a new hobby since he only ever really placed once in a while. But we enjoyed playing it was hilarious and now he is a fan of WM/H too, if he eventually makes his own army will be up to him.

[HeadHunter]

Out of curiosity... how many of you here have a local game store that's staffed by former GW employees that opened a shop after their local GW store closed and pulled out of the area? I've personally seen it in Buffalo and Pittsburgh.

[Havock]

I don't know if that's really fair. I'm not the biggest fan of what Games Workshop has done with 40k, but I think that it's because the game isn't for me. I'm looking for a finely-tuned, competitive rule set with cutthroat action and dynamism. I think Warmachine/Hordes are that game. On the other hand, 40k 6th (by my reckoning) is a beer-and-pretzels game that is more about spectacle than it is about being a great tournament-style game. These qualities don't make 40k a bad game, they're just not the qualities that many of us want.

If they want to make 40k good and playable, they should just tell the guys at Forge World who wrote Aeronautica Imperialis to do it. One of the best rulesets I have ever read. Game is simple yet deceptively tactical. 40k could really use a complete rehash instead of modifying the 'legacy'ruleset.

And cheap too.
Yes, Forgeworld, cheap. Think about that for a moment

40k isn't bad, but as you said people look for different things in different games. If people enjoy one thing, why take that away from them?
I am all for poking fun at the systems though. All the money you save on infinity miniatures can go directly to the terrain you need to play a proper game for example.
As for Warmachine/Hordes: the focus on player skill leads to a much wider disparity between players. In the GW systems you can come a decent way if you just build a list.

Mind you, these are not flaws and pros, these qualities cut both ways. Warmachine is a game with a lot of fine lines on tactics and the like, and they are all written on the edge of an axe.
And boy are you going to read them well. It's not for everyone.

In a way it is slightly paradoxical that Warmahordes and Warhammer are both more and less accessible than the other

[PG_relasine]

All the money you save on infinity miniatures can go directly to the terrain you need to play a proper game for example.

The problem there is that very few players will actually make that investment. Most see terrain as the responsibility of LGS to provide. Or they think it shows up magically. I know; I've built a lot of it.

[Dan from Chicago]

Can't see why any business owner would NOT be thrilled when people want to BUY something from him. Yes, it might once have been hard to obtain, but what does he lose by trying to fill a special order?

It's actually not as straightforward as you might think. Special Orders entail risk. If you take money from people, you're carrying a liability on the books until you provide the product. How do you handle people who want to cancel the order? If you don't take money from people you risk the person not buying what they ordered. You can make money at it, but it's more complicated than carrying product on the shelf.

[HeadHunter]

Placing a special order entails a lot less risk than simply stocking an entire product line. There are plenty of businesses that do it all the time, for a variety of things. A sensible policy requires a deposit of some percentage, refundable in full if the product cannot be delivered and subject to a "Restocking fee" or similar if the order is cancelled by the customer. Customers that routinely abuse the special order process will find that avenue closed to them.

At worst, the retailer ends up with a product on the shelf that may or may not sell - no different in any way than the rest of their stock on hand. But at least you know there's someone who is probably interested in buying it when you order it.

[Mastervalrik]

All i know if this LGS would been open minded, told me hey we really arent into that but yea if you want to throw a demo, or hey let us think about it, anything but down right close minded, I would ordered the 65 dollars worth of product from them today and not online. I am not losing total faith, I am going to take my son there and do a battle box game, his Bloodtrolls vs my Cygnar (I hope next week) and put on smiles, laugh, etc. Ill post results here when we get back.

[scout's honor]

... I would ordered the 65 dollars worth of product from them today and not online.

And maybe in the owner's experience you'd likely be waiting a couple of months for your order to arrive, which usually doesn't help turn you into a happy and often-returning customer. The owner may well feel that there's a lot more profit to be made for him if you'd start playing something else instead, and especially if you wouldn't be getting existing customers to switch from a more profitable line for him to PP.

Don't get me wrong: I only play Warmachine/Hordes and I'm very happy with that. At the same time though, I can tell you with 100% certainty that if I was playing GW stuff or even something from the smaller games like Malifaux or Flames of War my local store would have made a lot more money from me by now, since I pretty much have to scour the internet to get 60-70% of what I buy in 3-4 weeks or less. Anything not very recent I try to get from the local store either arrives in a matter of days or a matter of months - nothing in between.

[HeadHunter]

Honestly, if I'm looking to spend x dollars on Warmachine, I'm not going to spend that money on 40K just because the store doesn't carry what I want. If they are willing to order, they'll get the sale - if not, I'll buy what I wanted elsewhere. So it's a bad business strategy to think that discouraging me from what I want will be "profitable" in any way.

[PG_ThatRickGuy]

What other products does this store sell? Is 40K the only miniature game they sell?

Is it possible that the owner does not consider his store to be a gaming store, but considers it to be something else? (Comic Book/Collectible card game store?)

This was an issue I dealt with at my previous store. It was a collectables store, that had a corner for gaming products. They had gaming space in the basement, the staff was friendly, but the owner had no interest in a community of gamers. It made it a bit challenging to get a lot of traction there. We still managed to grow the scene though. Consistent weekly players, and getting them involved in the local tournament scene. But it's unlikely that the owner will ever see value in increasing his stock of WM merchandice beyond a prime book and a couple of battle boxes.

-Rick