Ravyn vs Stormwall

[NEoJoe]

Wow. This thread. I was enjoying the community here 'till now.

[Murkhadh]

Wow. This thread. I was enjoying the community here 'till now.

I sort of felt the same way, There is a group of regular posters that I love to hear input from, and then there are a very small number that set me off.

Back on topic, As I read ed say somewhere else, Ret has generally not really ever had a problem killing jacks. Gargantuans will take the MHSF out of the equation, but the usuals like sents and stormfalls and are own jacks and the above with Ossyans feat will still wreck those too.

Though I'm not referencing legions yet because who knows yet what kind of OP broken **** the Archangel will turn out to be.

[joelker41]

Look I try to be as abrasive as possible!

[NEoJoe]

I sort of felt the same way, There is a group of regular posters that I love to hear input from, and then there are a very small number that set me off.

Well, I like DS. And you, and Ed, and plenty of others. But I agree with DS here to an extent. And YOU to an extent. I just got up and read your post and thought "cool" and continued on and read DSs and thought "he's right" and read on to the HUGE FLAME WAR that followed and got upset. I mean, I don't care how mad he made you, some of the stuff he said is right. I think that applies to everyone on this thread.

I think everyone who participated is guilty of phrasing stuff in a negative manner. But I know you're all good players, and stand to benefit from forgetting the negativity.

I'm even guilty of it previously, so please don't take this as "holier than thou"

This place has been doing well guys. Come on

[Murkhadh]

Well, I like DS. And you, and Ed, and plenty of others. But I agree with DS here to an extent. And YOU to an extent. I just got up and read your post and thought "cool" and continued on and read DSs and thought "he's right" and read on to the HUGE FLAME WAR that followed and got upset. I mean, I don't care how mad he made you, some of the stuff he said is right. I think that applies to everyone on this thread.

I think everyone who participated is guilty of phrasing stuff in a negative manner. But I know you're all good players, and stand to benefit from forgetting the negativity.

I'm even guilty of it previously, so please don't take this as "holier than thou"

This place has been doing well guys. Come on

I don't dislike DS either, but threat range is a widely used term and to say its something other than what everyone else has accepted it to be causes confusion that isn't helping anyone.

[Murkhadh]

Look I try to be as abrasive as possible!

<high 5> :-P

10 chars

[rwould]

This happens turn 2, I rarely ever feat later than turn 2 with ravyn, I don't' know why a few of you have so much of an issue picturing this.
also
The base of the thing is huge. You have tons of room to work with.

I'm just not convinced it is quite as easy or automatic as you seem to suggest (I forgot the two MHA's who also need to be within 14" of it). Whilst we can take a Stormwall down to do it one go requires quite a few resources, good placement, and at least average dice.

I'm inclined to think that caster kill is more of a threat (certainly if they've gone Haley1) with Ravyn.

[Mastershake]

Well, I like DS. And you, and Ed, and plenty of others. But I agree with DS here to an extent. And YOU to an extent. I just got up and read your post and thought "cool" and continued on and read DSs and thought "he's right" and read on to the HUGE FLAME WAR that followed and got upset. I mean, I don't care how mad he made you, some of the stuff he said is right. I think that applies to everyone on this thread.

I think everyone who participated is guilty of phrasing stuff in a negative manner. But I know you're all good players, and stand to benefit from forgetting the negativity.

I'm even guilty of it previously, so please don't take this as "holier than thou"

This place has been doing well guys. Come on

Upon seeing Stormwalls stats I actually got to wondering how Ravyn would handle it and the numbers were pretty good. Stormwall has no good answer to stealthed infantry units with a good threat range and it's shot output is rather low at range to deal with units. The math and my experience against Cygnar said one Stormwall was likely to be more of a liability than a benefit against my Ravyn list since a simple Kiss from Aiyana would see it off with no real effort.

Reading Murk's post there wasn't anything off about it, but DS's post seemed like he was missing some information (the RNG of Stormwall's covering fire as it turns out). It seemed like things got a little out of hand with Murk being somewhat insulted (I would be too) and DS stuck trying to defend an error and just going deeper (also been there). So let's look at it objectively:

-Stormwall's stats aren't insurmountable especially for the points. Unbuffed Ret can easily bring it down inside of 20pts and if it's buffed a few more to remove (eEiryss) or apply our own (Ossyan or Aiyana) puts the numbers back on track.

-Offensively Stormwall isn't weak per-se, but doesn't want to pick a fight with infantry especially of the stealthed, ranged, Sniped, jack hunter variety. The lightning pod that I keep seeing come up has been getting blown way out of proportion. In order to get a single damage roll on an enemy model, the Stormwall has to be able to toss it behind the target meaning getting within 9", not 10" and even then it's one model, not exactly a game breaker. In order to put a dent in a stealthed unit it practically has to be standing on them and they have to get in a congo line since it's center point to center point only, so the damage for the lightning pod outside of solos is pretty minimal and even solos are generally safe unless they really blunder on the threat range. even then you need another model to get useful triangulations since the only model in that triangle right now has already taken a POW 10. Really this guy can only get it's good damage against a unit if its not using covering fire and if it isn't Ret can punish it pretty badly with Halberdiers and Sents.

-Covering Fire also hits other factions more than us. Sentinels using their CMD and Reach like they really should be doing anyway should still be able to charges through covering fire given their Reach and its base size. It's actually impossible for one covering fire template to stop an MHA from attacking a Stormwall mostly because of her 4" Reach and its base, so a minimum of two templates per assassin is needed and if my opponent is doing that, its game. To top it off, literally every Ret ranged unit has a RNG greater than 12" base or can mini-feat for RNG, so it doesn't affect our shooting as much either.

-Ossyan's feat, Garryth's feat, Kaelyssa's Backlash, Hypnos' Void Lock and eEiryss' Arcane Interference are just the match on the fire to make the match-up that much mroe painful.

-eEiryss has a pretty good threat range and to top it off, Cygnar doesn't ignore cover. Sit her back a few paces and behind a wall and even deadeyed gun mages are going to be struggling to hit if they can get shots at all.

-Murk also used only a little over 20pts to kill a buffed 19pt model in a 50pt game, that's not exactly an excessive investment of the army and the math is pretty clear that it didn't have to be blind luck, but rather is pretty repeatable.

-As far as threat range, if an opponent wants to play threat range shuffle with Ravyn and isn't eLylyth or eKaya, then be my guest. It's has never ended well for opponents to just shuffle around Ravyn waiting for an opening mostly because it's very easy for everything relevant to shoot 16" in a given turn. If your opponent wants to barrel their colossal forwards and dare you to kill it, you've got the Vortex (I've killed two Centurions and Thunderhead in a turn using Vortex and then I had to feat to hit them in melee, Stormwall and his buddies are even easier and lower DEF) and after you're done Ravyn has a 5" area of cover and rough terrain.

My thoughts: Stormwall may not be a push over, but I legitimately think Ret has much less to be concerned about than other factions since severl of the better casters will just have answers to one just lying around.

[NEoJoe]

I don't dislike DS either, but threat range is a widely used term and to say its something other than what everyone else has accepted it to be causes confusion that isn't helping anyone.

I guess. But I knew what he was saying. Plain as day, they only shoot 12", meaning if anything is around that area to engage them, they can't. I know this pretty intimately from trying to shoot 'casters with Phoenix all the time a while ago and actually regretting its Reach.

I totally understand how things can boil to confusion, since he was trying to use terms maybe everyone isn't used to as if they were used to them, but maybe that's a UK thing? Besides, on a shooting unit, maybe the term "threat range" could use an overhaul? I do remember a thread on the main boards where there were like two pages of people flaming over what Threat Range means. I'm not even sure I like the term myself nowadays. I'll probably just stick to my own terms, as long as I know what everyone else is talking about

[Barakiel]

I sort of felt the same way, There is a group of regular posters that I love to hear input from, and then there are a very small number that set me off.

There are a certain number of people in this thread who seem to think their word is law, and the second anyone even makes a post to the contrary, the gloves come off and it becomes personal. Forums exist so that debates and discussion can exist. Any time someone seems to disagree with what's being discussed in the Ret forum, ugly things happen. I think that's a shame.

I stand by the fact that it sounds like your opponent easily walked that Stormwall right into you. If you're able to get off a perfect feat Turn 2, with all of your units at full strength and easily positioned within range of both the Stormwall and Ravyn's feat area, then it sounds like your opponent did nothing to actually challenge you. True, I do think we're better equipped to handle Colossi than most WM armies, but I think it's similarly misleading to new players to look at this example and think it's something that can be easily replicated each time. If we're really talking about "serving the community" with a good example of reasonable expectation, I would treat Ravyn alph striking a colossal as being akin to a Snipe + Feat + Go. If your opponent hands you the situation, then go for it, but it's good to have a contingency plan just in case. Doing the math, average damage with the units you described is 60.5 boxes on an unbuffed Stormwall. The Stormwall has 56 boxes. If you had lost any models, rolled below average, had any of your units jammed, had your assassins blocked off by Covering Fire, or been affected by ARM buffs for those Brutal Shots, then your run at the Stormwall could have easily failed and it could have repaired enough next turn to cause you some big problems (I don't know if this would have happened in your game, I asked for more information and didn't receive it.)

I see nothing wrong with concluding that yes, a standard Ravyn list can kill a Stormwall in one go, but it takes very ideal circumstances to execute.

[Mastershake]

There are a certain number of people in this thread who seem to think their word is law, and the second anyone even makes a post to the contrary, the gloves come off and it becomes personal. Forums exist so that debates and discussion can exist. Any time someone seems to disagree with what's being discussed in the Ret forum, ugly things happen. I think that's a shame.

I stand by the fact that it sounds like your opponent easily walked that Stormwall right into you. If you're able to get off a perfect feat Turn 2, with all of your units at full strength and easily positioned within range of both the Stormwall and Ravyn's feat area, then it sounds like your opponent did nothing to actually challenge you. True, I do think we're better equipped to handle Colossi than most WM armies, but I think it's similarly misleading to new players to look at this example and think it's something that can be easily replicated each time. If we're really talking about "serving the community" with a good example of reasonable expectation, I would treat Ravyn alph striking a colossal as being akin to a Snipe + Feat + Go. If your opponent hands you the situation, then go for it, but it's good to have a contingency plan just in case. Doing the math, average damage with the units you described is 60.5 boxes on an unbuffed Stormwall. The Stormwall has 56 boxes. If you had lost any models, rolled below average, had any of your units jammed, had your assassins blocked off by Covering Fire, or been affected by ARM buffs for those Brutal Shots, then your run at the Stormwall could have easily failed and it could have repaired enough next turn to cause you some big problems (I don't know if this would have happened in your game, I asked for more information and didn't receive it.)

I see nothing wrong with concluding that yes, a standard Ravyn list can kill a Stormwall in one go, but it takes very ideal circumstances to execute.

If we were talking melee units I'd agree, but with ranged units, how many you get on a given target is much higher. The circumstances required aren't exactly "ideal" since there's really only so many good places to go on a table and scenarios narrow that down even more. I mean I guess you could sit half your army in your DZ and just lose to CPs, but a player doing that sounds much worse than one who is simply out-threated by an opponent who knows where to position to get his units to make their money on the same turn.

[Murkhadh]

I'm just not convinced it is quite as easy or automatic as you seem to suggest (I forgot the two MHA's who also need to be within 14" of it). Whilst we can take a Stormwall down to do it one go requires quite a few resources, good placement, and at least average dice.

I'm inclined to think that caster kill is more of a threat (certainly if they've gone Haley1) with Ravyn.

I could have killed Haley instead of killing the stormwall. I went first and If I get to go first, Haley has to like run backwards or sideways away from me to be safe and she didn't.

This was the first time I had gotten to face a stormwall though so I wanted to see if I could bring it down. I ended up killing every model in his army.

I'm not going to say killing the stormwall is automatic, but its definitely repeatable, my dice rolled a little high at times but they rolled a little low at times too, I didn't roll crazy or anything. Off the top of my head it was like "1 damage, 3 damage, 2 damage, 5 damage" etc. One of the mhas did 10 damage and the other 8, the one that did was one higher than average.

[Gremlingsp]

The game I played against stormwall those lightning pods didn't do anything major. What they did was threaten key solos. Problem is those key solos out threat the Stormwall. My opponent already had a few games with Stormwall and the new nemo. he was throwing out pods even before the could get anything to set up some triangulations. I went for turn 1 snipe feat go was 1/8" out of range for all but 3 guys. Then we both misjudged hyperions charge range so i as short and got bliped by stormwall. Next turn 2 units of stormfall , 2x MHA and those MHSF dropped him. I had amazing rolls on MHA but avg damage across the board will generally get him. I'm not scared of stormwall unless I need to charge him to kill him.

Do I think stormwall is cool? ooh hell yea. Is he unbeatable? not really. I'd rather see 2 stormwalls that eLylith anyday.

[Murkhadh]

There are a certain number of people in this thread who seem to think their word is law, and the second anyone even makes a post to the contrary, the gloves come off and it becomes personal. Forums exist so that debates and discussion can exist. Any time someone seems to disagree with what's being discussed in the Ret forum, ugly things happen. I think that's a shame.

You can "say otherwise" without being insulting, if you throw jabs, you should expect jabs in return.

I see nothing wrong with concluding that yes, a standard Ravyn list can kill a Stormwall in one go, but it takes very ideal circumstances to execute.

As Mastershake said, if this was with melee units it would take idea circumstances, with ranged units its actually kind of easy to get them all to be able to shoot at something with a 120mm base. Also knowing you can make anything in the list move at least 5 or 6 or 7 and shoot 12-16, its pretty easy to put them in a spot where you won't lose any models this turn and still be able to fire next turn. There are only a few models in the game that threat further than this.


The opponent HAS to advance something in a scenario or he will lose to the scenario. Cygnar infantry does NOT stand up well to ret shooting at all.

If he advanced the gun mages or the storm nouns I would have shot them to pieces, the stormwall was the thing that had the better chance to survive.

[NEoJoe]

I could have killed Haley instead of killing the stormwall.

This is probably true to the max. And to me, it's almost all that needs to be said. Killing the Stormwall is nice to know though, for sure.

[rwould]

This was the first time I had gotten to face a stormwall though so I wanted to see if I could bring it down. I ended up killing every model in his army.

Can't blame you, I am trying running two of them for the tournaments this weekend and can imagine there will be a few cries of timber! as mine go down (yes, deserting Ret for the weekend...).

[DesertsPower]

You paid 18 points for this big *** thing, you probably didn't expect it to die in one turn, but you also know that unless you get it into the battle, it's not going to earn it's points. So they moved it forward and you shot it all the way to the 40k discount bin.

This is so good I might just steal it for my signature :P


OT: I played a Stormwall at a Steamroller this weekend with a 35pt Hydra spam list (pVyros), shot it's right hand side off with 6 boosted POW 13s (over 2 turns) and punched apart the left with a Manticore that came on as second turn reinforcements. I took minimal damage in return, I think he broke through the field of one Hydra with one boosted big gun and missed with the second one - he didn't get a chance to fire it a second time.

Colossals are a pain to kill but not game changing by any means. Dedicate to them what you'd normally dedicate to two heavy jacks and you're golden.

[Murkhadh]

Can't blame you, I am trying running two of them for the tournaments this weekend and can imagine there will be a few cries of timber! as mine go down (yes, deserting Ret for the weekend...).

I play ret and legion often, I own menoth cygnar and my wife has cryx, I like playing different stuff, but I always come back to ret, I just like ret.

[Murkhadh]

I guess. But I knew what he was saying. Plain as day, they only shoot 12", meaning if anything is around that area to engage them, they can't. I know this pretty intimately from trying to shoot 'casters with Phoenix all the time a while ago and actually regretting its Reach.

I totally understand how things can boil to confusion, since he was trying to use terms maybe everyone isn't used to as if they were used to them, but maybe that's a UK thing? Besides, on a shooting unit, maybe the term "threat range" could use an overhaul? I do remember a thread on the main boards where there were like two pages of people flaming over what Threat Range means. I'm not even sure I like the term myself nowadays. I'll probably just stick to my own terms, as long as I know what everyone else is talking about

Everyone in that thread was quite clear on what the term threat range meant, they were fighting over should you tell your opponent your entire threat range or should you just hand him cards and tell him to figure it out. I don't want to dredge that one up here though. Its already being argued on two forums.

[DesertSpiral]

Hello everyone,

Sorry for stirring the pot and confusing you all with non cannon terms.

Cheers and peace out

[Oniwasabi]

The stormwall can definitely be shot to pieces by effective weaponmaster shooting that ignores things like Deceleration. It sounds like pretty much a perfect clockwork deployment and execution on your end and a couple of mistakes from your opponent (mainly putting the covering fires directly in front of the stormwall instead of further out to block MHAs) though that might not have been enough to save the poor guy. What else was eHaley running?

[Mastershake]

The stormwall can definitely be shot to pieces by effective weaponmaster shooting that ignores things like Deceleration. It sounds like pretty much a perfect clockwork deployment and execution on your end and a couple of mistakes from your opponent (mainly putting the covering fires directly in front of the stormwall instead of further out to block MHAs) though that might not have been enough to save the poor guy. What else was eHaley running?

Unless both of the MHAs are in the same place it's actually really hard (impossible depending on distance) to block an MHA with only one covering fire. Try taking a 120mm base and placing a single 3" AoE to block a charge from a model with 4" Reach and you'll see what I mean. It's possible with two covering fires to a single MHA or both if they're hugging, but I'd wager Murk doesn't put them standing side by side and with AD and SPD 7 they can be dramatically different places very easily.

[Oniwasabi]

Unless both of the MHAs are in the same place it's actually really hard (impossible depending on distance) to block an MHA with only one covering fire. Try taking a 120mm base and placing a single 3" AoE to block a charge from a model with 4" Reach and you'll see what I mean. It's possible with two covering fires to a single MHA or both if they're hugging, but I'd wager Murk doesn't put them standing side by side and with AD and SPD 7 they can be dramatically different places very easily.

This is true, but not blocking EITHER of them is an error, particularly since it read like his opponent was trying to stop the MHA's by dropping the templates right at the stormwall's feet, and if they are very close to their max threat range then a single template does stop them because they lose too much distance trying to charge around it. It's a small error in play but against a decapitating weapon master it can be a pretty significant error. Opponent probably should have gone super aggressive with eHaley for a turn 1 feat since it's about the only way I see epic Haley having a decent chance against Ravyn anyways. Feat turn 1 if you go second, turn 2 if you go first!

[Murkhadh]

This is true, but not blocking EITHER of them is an error, particularly since it read like his opponent was trying to stop the MHA's by dropping the templates right at the stormwall's feet, and if they are very close to their max threat range then a single template does stop them because they lose too much distance trying to charge around it. It's a small error in play but against a decapitating weapon master it can be a pretty significant error. Opponent probably should have gone super aggressive with eHaley for a turn 1 feat since it's about the only way I see epic Haley having a decent chance against Ravyn anyways. Feat turn 1 if you go second, turn 2 if you go first!

Going super aggressive with either haley vs ravyn and the mhsf means you lost the game, every time.

If she advances 3 inches out of the deployment zone, she's dead.

If Ravyn gets to go first, she may have to back up closer to the table edge to not die or shift sideways.

[Mastershake]

This is true, but not blocking EITHER of them is an error, particularly since it read like his opponent was trying to stop the MHA's by dropping the templates right at the stormwall's feet, and if they are very close to their max threat range then a single template does stop them because they lose too much distance trying to charge around it. It's a small error in play but against a decapitating weapon master it can be a pretty significant error. Opponent probably should have gone super aggressive with eHaley for a turn 1 feat since it's about the only way I see epic Haley having a decent chance against Ravyn anyways. Feat turn 1 if you go second, turn 2 if you go first!

But even at about the 13" mark they don't quite lose enough distance going around the template to stop the charge and the Stormwall confronted with the possibility of the MHSF doesn't have the luxury of a threat range shuffle. Sure it could dance with the MHAs for a few turns trying to get the right placement to not get charged while it's getting shot down, but it seems like a worse idea. Merely pointing out here that the opponent in question doesn't have to be scrub to get into this position especially when he's effectively out-threated and outgunned.

[Oniwasabi]

Going super aggressive with either haley vs ravyn and the mhsf means you lost the game, every time.

If she advances 3 inches out of the deployment zone, she's dead.

If Ravyn gets to go first, she may have to back up closer to the table edge to not die or shift sideways.

If she feats your army before you can shoot her she buys herself a turn to try and get things engaged and or killed. eHaley vs Ravyn is a terrible matchup for Cygnar, pretty much the only option is to go for broke with the feat and hope you can cripple the army. Any of the ARM 14 casters playing against Ravyn that don't have access to stealth already lose the game 90% of the time. It's Ravyn's specialty.

[Murkhadh]

If she feats your army before you can shoot her she buys herself a turn to try and get things engaged and or killed. eHaley vs Ravyn is a terrible matchup for Cygnar, pretty much the only option is to go for broke with the feat and hope you can cripple the army. Any of the ARM 14 casters playing against Ravyn that don't have access to stealth already lose the game 90% of the time. It's Ravyn's specialty.

If the MHSF are in range of the feat, they are in range to shoot haley, since they will have to activate first they wont' get the benefit of the feat, but you only need 3 or 4 to hit to bring her down and you get 11 tries to do it, its not great odds for haley.

[Tirrith]

My Ravyn list is built generally for Warmachine while Ossyan takes care of Hordes. So eEryss goes with Ossyan.

My first 2 experiences:

I have killed a Stormwall. Aiyana kisses and Ravyn charges with Vortex. MHSF then finished off with 4 dice dmg ignoring buffs. Still had Discrodia ready to come in if required. I actually did a bit of damage before hand with sniped MHSF, we don't have to kill it in one turn!

I played Ossyan against Kraken to see how he would fare... Easy dead Kraken on Ossyan feat turn with plenty to spare. Also have the option of just Void Lock with Hypnos until your models are in position to smash it!

As has been said, Ret have nothing to fear!

[Murkhadh]

My Ravyn list is built generally for Warmachine while Ossyan takes care of Hordes. So eEryss goes with Ossyan.

My first 2 experiences:

I have killed a Stormwall. Aiyana kisses and Ravyn charges with Vortex. MHSF then finished off with 4 dice dmg ignoring buffs. Still had Discrodia ready to come in if required. I actually did a bit of damage before hand with sniped MHSF, we don't have to kill it in one turn!

I played Ossyan against Kraken to see how he would fare... Easy dead Kraken on Ossyan feat turn with plenty to spare. Also have the option of just Void Lock with Hypnos until your models are in position to smash it!

As has been said, Ret have nothing to fear!

You will have to kill it in one turn some games. The stormwall just made Darius a very good caster.

[FearLord]

If the MHSF are in range of the feat, they are in range to shoot haley, since they will have to activate first they wont' get the benefit of the feat, but you only need 3 or 4 to hit to bring her down and you get 11 tries to do it, its not great odds for haley.

eHaley is a bad match up against Ravyn, but:

1) She only needs one in her Control area to effect the whole unit.
2) She can do it from outside of their range if she has a Squire (and she will have a Squire...)

But she's really relying on that feat turn to have any chance at all...

[Oniwasabi]

If the MHSF are in range of the feat, they are in range to shoot haley, since they will have to activate first they wont' get the benefit of the feat, but you only need 3 or 4 to hit to bring her down and you get 11 tries to do it, its not great odds for haley.

11 chances to roll a 10 on two dice assuming every single one of them is within 12" (16" if you had snipe on them to begin with I guess). With the squire you don't necessarily get any shots, and if snipe was somewhere else (on the Stormfalls that are farther back for example) you probably don't get any shots. Realistically when trying this it's already A: a desperation tactic because you decided to take an ARM 14 with no stealth caster against Ret for some reason and B: you have to know exactly where you want everything to land within the giant 16 or 18 inch bubble. When you do it all you're doing is buying one turn to try and neutralize enough threats to not instantly lose the game next turn, which the Stormwall can really help with, but still really only increases your chances from "auto loss barring atrocious dice rolls!" to "only mostly screwed."

Also since it was mentioned a few times and I forgot to point it out in an earlier post, the maximum distance a Stormwall with eHaley can deploy a Storm Pod is not 17" it is 22" Since Stormsmiths can surge and Triangulate of the pod from 20" out and Storm Striders can bounce lightning generators off it this is important to remember as it's probably the best way for Cygnar to try and remove the lynchpin from this really horrific match up.

*edit*
Also only 3 or 4 to hit? God I wish I could consistently roll my damage at 1-2 above average. That would make a lot of my games SO much easier

[bakaryu]

I have yet to face a Stormwall, but twice at Lock and Load I came up against a Conquest.

I one rounded it in my first game with Ossyan's feat shooting it with 4 mage hunters, a unit of Stormfall Archers, Ossyan and Hypnos (still had Disco in reserve if I needed more damage output).
The second time I faced it with my Vyros tier list and killed it over two rounds with two waves of weapon master Sentinel charges.

Gargantuans may be a different story to kill properly, but based on first hand experience so far using the Mountain King I am not seeing it. Kaelyssa will still be my first choice caster to kill colossals (well more specifically the caster controlling them) however, though I feel comfortable in the knowledge that all of our casters have the tools to help us make them dead.

[Murkhadh]

I have yet to face a Stormwall, but twice at Lock and Load I came up against a Conquest.

I one rounded it in my first game with Ossyan's feat shooting it with 4 mage hunters, a unit of Stormfall Archers, Ossyan and Hypnos (still had Disco in reserve if I needed more damage output).
The second time I faced it with my Vyros tier list and killed it over two rounds with two waves of weapon master Sentinel charges.

Gargantuans may be a different story to kill properly, but based on first hand experience so far using the Mountain King I am not seeing it. Kaelyssa will still be my first choice caster to kill colossals (well more specifically the caster controlling them) however, though I feel comfortable in the knowledge that all of our casters have the tools to help us make them dead.

Darius and Abby are both going to be much stronger now with Colossals and stormwall existing now.

[darkenn]

2 stormwalls down in a turn, this weekend at ETC Mansfield, Englad. With Ossyan.

To be honest, stormwalls arent that good in a pair vs RoS right now, yeh they can put out pods and whatnot, but the high amount of dmg you can dish out in 1 turn will at least kill one, and then his/her caster will die next turn. I just killed 2 stormwalls before I killed pHaly to make a point! On the other hand, killing Terminus was a effing feat out this world! bouth me and my opponent was stunned for 2 min after the game when I won!

[joelker41]

Lets be honest, if your opponent is running colossals vs us they aren't to bright period LOL.

Ossyan, Kaelyssa, Ravyn...just no real reason to risk getting annihilated vs us.

[Murkhadh]

2 stormwalls down in a turn, this weekend at ETC Mansfield, Englad. With Ossyan.

To be honest, stormwalls arent that good in a pair vs RoS right now, yeh they can put out pods and whatnot, but the high amount of dmg you can dish out in 1 turn will at least kill one, and then his/her caster will die next turn. I just killed 2 stormwalls before I killed pHaly to make a point! On the other hand, killing Terminus was a effing feat out this world! bouth me and my opponent was stunned for 2 min after the game when I won!

I killed the equivalent of 3 of them this weekend. I rolled terrible and left one with 5 boxes, next turn Darius feats and heals it to full, the turn after I killed it again and the other one too.

[FearLord]

Lets be honest, if your opponent is running colossals vs us they aren't to bright period LOL.

Ossyan, Kaelyssa, Ravyn...just no real reason to risk getting annihilated vs us.

I agree with this - We are probably the Strongest faction vs Colossals right now...

[Murkhadh]

I agree with this - We are probably the Strongest faction vs Colossals right now...

I would agree that we are the strongest vs them, although eSorscha has the tools to tear them up as well.

[joelker41]

I would agree that we are the strongest vs them, although eSorscha has the tools to tear them up as well.

Well at least we annihilate eSorscha to LOL.

[Mastershake]

I killed the equivalent of 3 of them this weekend. I rolled terrible and left one with 5 boxes, next turn Darius feats and heals it to full, the turn after I killed it again and the other one too.

We had a scenario in a Halloween tournament last year involving a monster with 70 health and ARM 20 and healed D6 each maintnenance phase, it wasn't a warjack. The scenario was supposed to see who could do the most before it moved off of the table. I killed it with Ossyan on turn 2 without activating the MHSF or finishing melee attacks with a Phoenix.