MOW Kovnik + 2 Berserkers?

[@Kriegsspiele]

I'm just thinking about the MOW Kovnik + 2 Berserkers combo: I think Kovnik invites us to use 1-2 Berserkers especially with all focus selfish casters who probably even offer spells or feats affecting all friendly jacks, not just their battlegroup?

With pButcher's feat we're talking about 4x MAT 5+10.5 at POW 16+14/10.5 here, +2 additional headbutts probably, +2x MAT 5+7 at POW 16+10.5 (or both initals with POW +14), +Kovnik shooting or in melee as well (1x MAT 8+7 at POW 15+17.5/14!) for "just" 15p in total ... but without spending 1 single focus on them during the whole game! - The 3 Serkers (+1 with Butcher) could be a pretty nice screen to hide Kovnik and the Butcher while they advance quickly. Adding a unit of Ternions we're talking about a 9'' screen here and have enough magical weapons on board already. Should be nice with p/e/lVlad or Strakhov as well?

All in all, MOW Kovnik + 2 Berserkers seem to be very interesting as a slow but very durable center of the army. What's your experience with this combo?

EDIT: Correction of the assumption that Kovnik's Drive boosts "all attacks" - it's the inital attacks "only".

[The Buoyancy of Water]

I want to try this (not sure if 1 or 2 berserkers) with eVlad when I increase to 50pts. Kovnik is a viable feat target once he's close to the enemy and eVlad wants to be hogging focus anyway. If he runs turn 1-2, he'll easily be around for the feat turn, and can be a good backup if the more obvious eliminators/doom reavers are taken out.

Given the colossals coming our way, having something that can do a fair amount of damage to one is nothing to sniff at, particularly when there's no drain on your caster. Definitely worth trying! Like every other tactic that gets put on these forums that doesn't contain Khador infantry + Iron Flesh expect a fair bit of "this-will-never-work" syndrome, but I think you should ignore that and give it a go

Cheers,
Dave

[KhaosSpectyr]

@Buoysncy, Ive done it with pvlad. The Kovnik making the initials boosted, and S&P helping attack and damage (and the headbutt) is amazing, tho a lil costly point wise

[The Buoyancy of Water]

Never thought about it with pVlad, don't play him, but that sounds nice! Does the boosts particularly help when you already have S&P around? I can see it helping them hit the higher DEF beasts at least.

Cheers,
Dave

[scout's honor]

Never thought about it with pVlad, don't play him, but that sounds nice! Does the boosts particularly help when you already have S&P around? I can see it helping them hit the higher DEF beasts at least.

S&P is only +1.7something - for a MAT 5 jack that's certainly nice, but not-quite-7 just isn't good enough against DEF 12 or higher for me given that we're talking about relatively expensive models with few attacks.

[@Kriegsspiele]

I want to try this (not sure if 1 or 2 berserkers) with eVlad... If he runs turn 1-2, he'll easily be around for the feat turn, and can be a good backup if the more obvious eliminators/doom reavers are taken out.

Very good point! Haven't seen Kovnik as an assassinator yet.

Like every other tactic that gets put on these forums that doesn't contain Khador infantry + Iron Flesh expect a fair bit of "this-will-never-work" syndrome, but I think you should ignore that and give it a go

I'm playing with Uhlans very often so I'm ignoring the syndrome anyway. And I'm almost always looking for a balanced list. Although I'm pretty melee oriented, I'm adding some magical attacks and shooting as well (becoming a fan of the Ternions lately where you get both for 4 points). And I'm definitely always balancing DEF and ARM, so I'd pretty surely add Kayazys to the combo.

@Buoysncy, Ive done it with pvlad. The Kovnik making the initials boosted, and S&P helping attack and damage (and the headbutt) is amazing, tho a lil costly point wise

Wait, am I not getting Drive + Marshal for another attack (per Berserker) and aren't they all (2 initials, +headbutt, +1 via Marshal) boosted to hit? With pVlad (S&P on) I'd have: 4D6(-1) to hit and 4D6(-1) on charge or 3D6(-1) in melee to damage, right?

How did you use the combo? Where to be serious: in the center or on the flank?

[KhaosSpectyr]

Wait, am I not getting Drive + Marshal for another attack (per Berserker) and aren't they all (2 initials, +headbutt, +1 via Marshal) boosted to hit? With pVlad (S&P on) I'd have: 4D6(-1) to hit and 4D6(-1) on charge or 3D6(-1) in melee to damage, right?

How did you use the combo? Where to be serious: in the center or on the flank?

No it says Initial Attacks only, so just the two axes, so i use the marshal for boosted damage on the non charge.
And i run it up the middle, so both zerkers are (hopefully) in range on something to attack (thats worth attacking). The two heavys make a great screen for the Kovnik, as all 3 can run with no problem.
And, if you have the points, a unit of mechaniks with the new ua will keep yur marshal as well as the jacks alive to make it into battle

[KhaosSpectyr]

double post
and yeah it would be 4d6(-lowest die), to hit and damage (if you marsh-boost 2nd attack), on the initials

[@Kriegsspiele]

No it says Initial Attacks only, so just the two axes, so i use the marshal for boosted damage on the non charge.

Thanks, good to know. Thought it's all attacks. But I still get Drive + Marshal if you're boosting the attack? So I could test the 3rd attack (4th after headbutt) with pVlad who'd add 1.45 via S&P?

And i run it up the middle, so both zerkers are (hopefully) in range on something to attack (thats worth attacking). The two heavys make a great screen for the Kovnik, as all 3 can run with no problem. And, if you have the points, a unit of mechaniks with the new ua will keep yur marshal as well as the jacks alive to make it into battle

I'm planning a bigger screen: 2 Serkers with Kovnik, 1 with the caster + Ternions who'll throw Blizzards at them = 9'' - At least if it's not against Legion...

[Aylw]

I think Kovnik + 2 Berserkers is too many points - That's 12 extra points that gets significantly weakened if you kill one 16arm 8 box solo. At that cost, it becomes worth it for the enemy to suicide that Kovnik with an entire squad - if enemy succeeds, the 2 'zerkers have a high chance of just fluffing the suiciders.

I think 9 points is a pretty decent tac - Effectively like an in-faction lesser caster.

I also think Strakov is a strong combo with them. His feat gets around the question of how to actually get the Kovnik and 'zerker into combat.

[@Kriegsspiele]

I think Kovnik + 2 Berserkers is too many points - That's 12 extra points that gets significantly weakened if you kill one 16arm 8 box solo. At that cost, it becomes worth it for the enemy to suicide that Kovnik with an entire squad - if enemy succeeds, the 2 'zerkers have a high chance of just fluffing the suiciders.

Even when screening him with 3 serkers wizh Ternions and some IFPs and Kayazy around. Feels pretty safe to me - in theory?

I think 9 points is a pretty decent tac - Effectively like an in-faction lesser caster. I also think Strakov is a strong combo with them. His feat gets around the question of how to actually get the Kovnik and 'zerker into combat.

With one Serker only Kovnik feels a lot more expensive? Strakhov could indeed be very nice with them.

[Saekyn]

I think Kovnik + 2 Berserkers is too many points - That's 12 extra points that gets significantly weakened if you kill one 16arm 8 box solo. At that cost, it becomes worth it for the enemy to suicide that Kovnik with an entire squad - if enemy succeeds, the 2 'zerkers have a high chance of just fluffing the suiciders.

I think 9 points is a pretty decent tac - Effectively like an in-faction lesser caster.

I also think Strakov is a strong combo with them. His feat gets around the question of how to actually get the Kovnik and 'zerker into combat.

It's expensive, but I think that removing one Berserker would only work against you in this case. You go down from that 3-point model supporting two jacks to one, so the Drive isn't hitting as many models. Survivability of the Kovnik isn't something I'd really worry about...you can easily keep him back behind his pets, where it would be hard to get a shot off on him. Even so, his high arm should protect him against most casual volleys loosed in his direction.

I think that if your opponent wants to kill a jack marshal and is willing to dedicate enough resources to do so, then let them. Zerkers work great off no focus anyway, and once your opponent has "tower-dived", so to speak, punish them for their crimes.

I ordered a duo of Berserkers myself for this very purpose, and I'd have them by now if not for a processing error. I can't wait to put them on the table.

[PG_Kovaas]

I love Berserkers, I own 3 of them. I play them with Karchev and Vlad1 . Never tried 2 marshalled with a Kovnik, but I like the idea!
Besides Strakhov, another good yet more situational combo to get your jacks at reach with what they want to beat could be Gallows from the Old Witch.

[Trihnicus]

That's 12 extra points that gets significantly weakened if you kill one 16arm 8 box solo.

I'd like to point out that you are shorting the man 2 whole armor points. I happen to find this very important as he does not die from P+S 14 Infantry charging him on average dice because of it. And he takes no damage at all from your typical pow 10 +2d6 damage roll. And I have to disagree with only giving him 1 Jack if you give him any the model becomes MORE cost effective the more you stack on him. Sure it also makes the whole thing a riskier bet but if you are wanting to justify his points you need to throw more machines at him.

The argument that none of this makes him cost efficient may very well still be valid

[@Kriegsspiele]

Played the following 25p list for first testing purposes and fun yesterday:

Strakhov
- Spriggan
- Sylys
MOW Drakhun
MOW Kovnik
- Berserker
- Berserker

1. Sylys was of course not needed in this environment.
2. The Drakhun saved the combo's (Berserker's) life more than once.
3. Screening Kovnik (and Strakhov) with 2 Berserkers is extremely easy.
4. Kovnik's shooting is pretty effective. One really shouldn't forget about it.
5. Kovnik is very durable. ARM 18 + 8 boxes is indeed a lot!
6. Berserkers who hit almost always are plain lovely.

I'll go on testing this but my first feeling is: the combo might become a very nice addition (replacement) in some of my 50p lists.

[Aylw]

I'd like to point out that you are shorting the man 2 whole armor points.

My bad, 2 armour does indeed make him much more survivable than I thought.

I still think that it's risky, but I could see it working.

[Septimus]

2 jacks and a MoW controlling them. Might I take the liberty of suggesting the addition of Battle mechanics + UA to this party?

[underwaterviuw]

2 jacks and a MoW controlling them. Might I take the liberty of suggesting the addition of Battle mechanics + UA to this party?

A Demolisher can make this even more fun; keep your mechaniks safe with girded and iron wall, who then block charge lanes to the Demolisher who gets boosted attacks from the Kovnik, and then he and the Demolisher AND the unit of MOW screening the whole mess can be repaired! for just... (3+9+2+2+6?) somewhere around 22 points? Cheap!

[@Kriegsspiele]

2 jacks and a MoW controlling them. Might I take the liberty of suggesting the addition of Battle mechanics + UA to this party?

Maybe a good idea but I want to get more games with them first. Those I had didn't need mechanics.

A Demolisher can make this even more fun; keep your mechaniks safe with girded and iron wall, who then block charge lanes to the Demolisher who gets boosted attacks from the Kovnik, and then he and the Demolisher AND the unit of MOW screening the whole mess can be repaired! for just... (3+9+2+2+6?) somewhere around 22 points? Cheap!

Now it's getting really expensive: that'd be more than 1/3 of the whole army!?