Confused about Combo Strike

[DeathbyDoughnut]

Hi everyone, sorry if this seems like a dumb question, but I am still pretty new to this game. So I was reviewing what I want for my next purchase when I came across the light myrmidon Gorgon.

The Gorgon's glaive has a special attack that is called combo strike, as I am sure many of you well know. Combo Strike reads like this; "Make a melee attack. Instead of making a normal damage roll, the POW of the damage roll is equal to this model's STR plus twice the POW of this weapon."

I am trying to figure out how this is advantageous. Now correct me if I am wrong (which is why I am posting this because it sounds wrong in my head), but if you activate the Gorgon, advance. Then instead of being able to make two regular glaive attacks, which would be 2 attack rolls, then 2x(P+S+damage roll) one for each glaive attack. You use the Combo Strike*Attack which gives you one attack roll and damage would be (2xP)+S+damage roll, using up the entirety of your attack action that activation (unless you buy more with focus). Because using a special action or attack uses up the whole attack action, and does not let you do any more attacks that activation unless you purchase with more with focus, is that correct?

If that is the case then it seems like Combo Strike is never worth doing. You put all your eggs into one attack roll, and do S+2 dice less damage for it. I appreciate any insights or corrections, thanks and happy gaming.

[Pinegulf]

It's all about expectation values. If you 1) can't spare focus for double boost or are not expecting to hit and 2) are looking at expected damage output of 3 points per normal hit. Then combo strike is viable option.
When hitting heavies and casters this is viable option.

[Lord Sessadore]

What pinegulf said. As an example, let's pretend you're attacking a Juggernaut with your Gorgon, ARM 20. Let's also assume you've got the arcanist's concentrated power buff for +2 damage. If you do two normal glaive attacks, each one does 6 less than what you roll, so you average about 2 damage for both attacks. With a combo strike you're doing 2 less damage than what you roll, average of 5.

Even with two focus to boost the normal damage rolls, you're looking at an average of 8 damage total, which is the same average as if you used one focus to boost the combo damage roll.

Please note that this is just an example and it will rarely be worth the focus to try to get a Gorgon to damage a Juggernaut - use a heavy or some hard hitting infantry if you want to hurt it.

However, with the manticore you're right. With concentrated power and its own STR buff, it's not worth combo striking unless your target has ARM 24+, which is rare.

[bodare]

Its very good against certain targets tho, like the Menoth Revenger who will push you out of melee range after your first hit unless you have reach or happen to wreck it's shield, and other stuff that only allows you to make one attack before using some shenanigans to get out of your range.

[Xarian]

You can still buy more attacks with *attacks. Combo strike is not a *action.

[PG_Dino-Czar]

If I'm charging a warcaster or warlock with a Manticore I'll buy the +3 str, Concentrate Power and Combo strike with a boost to hit.

Yes, I could boost to hit with two POW 17 swings, but odds are good that I'll miss at least one attack and a P&S 17 isn't likely to finish the game. To my mind it is better to go all in.

[DeathbyDoughnut]

Thanks everyone for the insightful wisdom, I see that it is a specific scenario attack.

@Dino-Czar I thought you couldn't use a special attack to charge?

[joelker41]

Thanks everyone for the insightful wisdom, I see that it is a specific scenario attack.

@Dino-Czar I thought you couldn't use a special attack to charge?

You can if it is attached to a melee weapon.

[Mastershake]

Thanks everyone for the insightful wisdom, I see that it is a specific scenario attack.

@Dino-Czar I thought you couldn't use a special attack to charge?

A specific example (I've actually done this a few times) is when a Manticore is attacking the enemy caster. Doing a combo strike means you put all of your eggs in one basket, but if you hit, you're likely to get good damage or an assassination. More than once with Ravyn opponents would either forget about Locomotion or Veil of Mists back when I was regularly using a Manticore with her so a suprise boosted POW 23-25 (depending on if Concentrated Power is involved) actually ended a few games and in those cases trying to boost a pair of POW 15/17's would have been more iffy and required more regular dice.

[Mod_Redphantasm]

Thanks everyone for the insightful wisdom, I see that it is a specific scenario attack.

@Dino-Czar I thought you couldn't use a special attack to charge?

You cannot do a power attack on the charge.

A *attack may be used on the charge provided it is a *attack on a melee weapon.

[DeathbyDoughnut]

@Mastershake What specifically do you mean by the term "assassination"? Is it a specific game/scenario term or a rough slang (like I "pop" my feat.)?

@Mod_Rephantasm Right, no power attacks like throw or headbutt etc, but *attacks can be as long as they are attached to a melee attack. I actually found the specific entry in the rule books which was just a lapse on my part, I've read that chapter probably a dozen times and it just didn't stick any of those times.

[PG_Dawnlord Ed]

Assassination is winning the game by killing the opposing caster.

[SpecialK]

You cannot do a power attack on the charge.

A *attack may be used on the charge provided it is a *attack on a melee weapon.

Semi-related, are you allowed to trample and then use a special attack? Or does trampling use up your combat action?

[PG_Dawnlord Ed]

You may not trample and use *Attacks. Power attacks require you to use your initial attacks to do so and so do *Attacks. All you can do after trampling is buy additional attacks (or anything a special rules specifically allows, but that's always true).

[DeathbyDoughnut]

Sorry for the nubcupcake basic questions. I am a nit picky person when it comes to rules. I like to know all the ins and outs of all the rules in all the games I play. Plus I tend to over think things and miss subtleties occasionally so I appreciate all the responses.

[PG_Dawnlord Ed]

Rules forum, man. I read every thread there every day just to keep up on the things I'm likely to run into as a TO. It's worth the five minutes a day to keep up on it. And it had engendered a great respect for the rules set. It's really very well written.

[Lord Sessadore]

Rules forum, man. I read every thread there every day just to keep up on the things I'm likely to run into as a TO. It's worth the five minutes a day to keep up on it. And it had engendered a great respect for the rules set. It's really very well written.

Is it bad to advocate the rules forum by saying I still don't actually own a copy of Prime/Primal Mk 2, and yet usually know the rules better than the people I play against because I've spent a good amount of time browsing the rules forum?

Note that I'm not in any way saying you shouldn't buy Prime, or that the rules forum is really a replacement for Prime. I'm just a cheap bugger who likes buying moar models instead of that book I should've gotten first. >.>

[DeathbyDoughnut]

I have both Prime and Primal, plus Forces of Retribution, and Cygnar. I looked up the Special attack while charging rule and it says right in the paragraph that you can. I just overlooked it, which happens to me sometimes.

[Mastershake]

I have both Prime and Primal, plus Forces of Retribution, and Cygnar. I looked up the Special attack while charging rule and it says right in the paragraph that you can. I just overlooked it, which happens to me sometimes.

People overlook a lot of stuff, like being unable to make ranged attacks against targets in your back arc.