Player Habits ? Don?t be an Excuse Player

[PG_carnage4u]

One thing I often see players do (and something I've done myself) is to cling to an excuse after losing a game of warmachine.
I really think going for that excuse to justify the loss, instead of evalulating the game looking for mistakes and trying to learn is something that hinders a players growth.

I wrote a longer article on the topic on Muse on Minis about issue -

Article is found here- http://museonminis.com/player-habits...excuse-player/

[MagnustheJust]

There are only three legitimate excuses for why you lost a game :

A) Bad Strategy.
B) The Dice God D6 was not amused.
3) The jerk in the mirror who was playing your army.

[Deo85]

a lot easier to blame some one or something then reflect on ones self

[PG_Sobek]

I'm sorry, but when I make a big mistake during a game, I can't help but cling to that as the reason why I lost. Why shouldn't people be allowed to do so? Learning from our own bad game decisions is how most people get better.

[Da-Rock]

I have been that Jerk in the mirror a lot over time, but I always strive to not be him.... :-)

Last week I was upset that I didn't get to show off my Alpha Strike force in a Big 3 on 3 match because I fileded my Striders and Stormwall behind a wall and small castle........it sucked, but the funniest thing is no one there held a gun to my head and forced ME to deploy there.

At our local shop we always try to discuss what went wrong. I try to push other players to ask what they liked about their list or specific units and what wasn't liked because often your own perception of a model or units performance will be off.

[Darque]

This is an old one (and may not apply to WarmaHordes) but..

When playing an attractive woman wearing a low cut shirt, is it permissible to throw the game?

I may or may not have been guilty of an infraction then.

[Cambeul]

I usually look at it like this, and it even applys to major sports as well I find:

1. When you have two teams of equal skill, it is generally the side that makes the least mistakes and capitalizes the most on the other guys.

2. When you have a Elite team go against a Sub-Par team it is generally the Elite who wins on Strategy and Tactics, or just out plays them.

[Cambeul]

This is an old one (and may not apply to WarmaHordes) but..

When playing an attractive woman wearing a low cut shirt, is it permissible to throw the game?

I may or may not have been guilty of an infraction then.

I have had that problem play pool, if you call it a problem.

[Darque]

I have had that problem play pool, if you call it a problem.

Oh I don't really consider it a loss.

[HeadHunter]

a lot easier to blame some one or something then reflect on ones self

It's a behavioral epidemic that extends far beyond gaming. It's infiltrated everyday life and everyday thinking. People used to accept responsibility for the consequences of their choices, but for far too long they've been taught that they're "special" and can do no wrong - so they naturally seek someone else to blame.

[MidnightFox0083]

This is an old one (and may not apply to WarmaHordes) but..

When playing an attractive woman wearing a low cut shirt, is it permissible to throw the game?

An attractive woman(regardless of attire) is just another player, why let it affect the game?

Then again, I'm married, so I'm not looking to attract a mate through the fine art of letting her win.

Also, my wife HATES when people "let her win" at games. You either bring your all or you don't play as far as she's concerned(she doesn't play WM/H, but she DOES play board games and Magic).

[allistorpreist]

My bad habit after a loss is to immediately start picking apart my game. While that may seem nobel, it took me a while to concider how it looks from across the table. But when the first words out of you mouth are, "I lost because I did X" it really isn't as cool as it sounds in your head.

So now I make an effort (I don't always succeed) to congratulate the winner and talk about what they did well.

Unless it was something painfully obvious that influence the game the rolls don't get mentioned. Sure there are days when one player rolls 1s all the frigging time, or that guy who always rolls what they need, but most of the time that is just perception not fact so I try not to dwell on it besides joking around. It is like poker, luck is a factor, but luck seldom wins in the long run.

[allistorpreist]

This is an old one (and may not apply to WarmaHordes) but..

When playing an attractive woman wearing a low cut shirt, is it permissible to throw the game?

I may or may not have been guilty of an infraction then.

Throwing a game is always permissible, but if a woman spent a few hundred dollars buying books and models, who knows how much time learning the game, countless hours building and painting, and then put up with all the usuall gamer nonsense to get to that table to play with you, how is she going to be anything but insulted when you throw the game?

[tallted]

I'm not looking to attract a mate through the fine art of letting her win.

Bazinga!!!

[jonconcarne]

I'm sorry, but when I make a big mistake during a game, I can't help but cling to that as the reason why I lost. Why shouldn't people be allowed to do so? Learning from our own bad game decisions is how most people get better.

I think the key difference is an excuse is not really a valid reason for loss, such as "this was a terrible matchup for me" or "you just got a lucky assassination". A mistake is something that can be fixed and learned from, while an excuse is shifting the blame for the loss off of yourself.

[Syas]

I lament mistakes, but I do not presume that they would have won me the game.

I often grab dinner with someone I play with on league nights and we speak about what we did well, and what we didn't do well. It is a good recap period to reinforce lessons learned form both positive and negative results.

[Hasten]

Along with reflecting on what you did wrong/could have done better, I've found it useful to also look at what my opponent did right, to incorporate it (where possible) into my gameplay, or to prevent my opponent from doing something similar in the future.

-H

[PG_dungeongod]

An attractive woman(regardless of attire) is just another player, why let it affect the game?

Then again, I'm married, so I'm not looking to attract a mate through the fine art of letting her win.

Also, my wife HATES when people "let her win" at games. You either bring your all or you don't play as far as she's concerned(she doesn't play WM/H, but she DOES play board games and Magic).

This. I never tried to show any special favor, and that is part of why my wife started dating me - because, when we were playing video games, I never "went easy" on her. I just treated her like another player rather than a "girl gamer." When you treat someone different - either in a "good" way or a "bad" way - they notice. Maybe not always consciously, but they notice.

[Darque]

Throwing a game is always permissible, but if a woman spent a few hundred dollars buying books and models, who knows how much time learning the game, countless hours building and painting, and then put up with all the usuall gamer nonsense to get to that table to play with you, how is she going to be anything but insulted when you throw the game?

Actually it was a first game of 40-something with borrowed models. She just wanted to learn, and while It may sound as if I ran a caster forward and dumped my fury, it lasted quite a while. We covered the basics of the turn breakdown, movement, how to shoot (even target selection), and the assault phase. The outcome of the game may have been predetermined but she earned her win.

Also in my defense... I got the date.

[HeadHunter]

I find that you shouldn't need to throw a game against any newcomer if you're willing to offer the best advioce on how your opponent can win at each step - offer options, allow them to reconsider their moves... and in this way, you teach them how to succeed on their own. Anyone will respect and appreciate that a lot more than simply "letting them win".

[PG_carnage4u]

I'm sorry, but when I make a big mistake during a game, I can't help but cling to that as the reason why I lost. Why shouldn't people be allowed to do so? Learning from our own bad game decisions is how most people get better.

that is my point.

You made a mistake and are learning from it

I see players, that make excuses and dont bother to learn. They are too busy telling their opponent they only won because of X, and not bothering to think about their mistakes to get better.

[allistorpreist]

Actually it was a first game of 40-something with borrowed models. She just wanted to learn, and while It may sound as if I ran a caster forward and dumped my fury, it lasted quite a while. We covered the basics of the turn breakdown, movement, how to shoot (even target selection), and the assault phase. The outcome of the game may have been predetermined but she earned her win.

Also in my defense... I got the date.

That is not throwing a game, that is teaching the game.

[Mod_GoLu]

Also in my defense...

Mostly in your defense, you were teaching another player how to play. Which is a fine and decent thing, and good on you for that. What people were reacting to was the implication that this was supposed to be a real game, not a tutorial, and that you were busy sabotaging her fun in order to try and score a date.

Presenting the former as if it is the latter is problematic because enough people do the latter that it's not clear that you don't mean it.

[Darque]

you know what? as long as she had a good time and I had fun. does it really matter who wins or looses?

Not a damn bit. It was entertaining and fun for both of us. I have no regrets about it. Regardless of throwing the game or if I won.

If it's a real game in the future and we are both having fun, I may do it again. Simply put, I have nothing to prove by winning. I'm there to have fun. yeah, I said it. I don't care about winning. If you can't have fun any other way then I feel sorry for you.

It was a great time, awesome conversation and I haven't laughed that hard in a game ever or since.

Winning aint the only thing guys.

[jandrese]

I pick apart my own game even when I win. I've also had plenty of times when I did something and then realized immediately afterward that it was a blunder. That's how you learn I guess. When I lose, I do tend to look and try to figure out if there is anything I could have done differently. Sometimes it's obvious that I really sent the wrong unit after some particular threat or wasted a model needlessly, but sometimes it's just a case of a bad matchup or repeated dice failures that did me in.

Is it a bad plan if your plan involves killing one particular model to get a charge lane at the caster, but that particular model has tough? What if you have 6 different attacks that are likely to generate a tough roll (especially after the first?). If the model makes 8 or 9 tough rolls in a row (even after you toss in some risky extra options you didn't originally plan on using, like having Gorman rush up and toss an acid bomb) and utterly ruins your plan, was it a bad plan? Ultimately, you didn't take into consideration the contingency that the model might not die and preallocated too many resources into another model (a jack) that would only be useful if that model failed a tough check. It's arguably poor planning on your part, but also somewhat unavoidable in Warmachine.

[J. Beatnik]

Usually when I lose its because I don't know what their models do, since I've only been playing a few months. Afterwords I usually try to have them introduce their army to me and what cool things they can do with it.

[MathPasta]

There are only three legitimate excuses for why you lost a game :

A) Bad Strategy.
B) The Dice God D6 was not amused.
3) The jerk in the mirror who was playing your army.

4) Poor army composition. Some models simply have poor abilities.

[Ysthrall]

I've had games where the luck has wandered off to one side of the probability spectrum, either mine or my opponents. This is usually agreed upon between us. I've had games where we've looked at each others armies and one of us has gone "well feth...." (because there are occasions when you have no effective way to counter your opponents strategy. This is called a failure in preperation/foresight). I've had games where my opponent has freely admitted "yes, that model is overpowered and you cannot deal with it at all".

But generally, my losses have fallen into the "what did I do wrong? Oh yeah, that..." category. I usually ask my opponent how I could have won, what I should have done, what I could have done better. I try to give fair answers when asked in turn.

If I have utterly misunderstood the scenario, and lose to that, then it's my fault.
If my opponent comes out of nowhere with a killer combo that I never saw coming, and I'm familiar with the capabilities of his army, then it's my fault.
If my opponent comes out of nowhere with a killer combo that I never saw coming, and I've never played that caster/faction before, then it's still my fault, but less so.
If I fluff up by the numbers, overestimating my defences, underestimating his attacks, and leaving my caster a little too far that way, and I lose, then it's my fault, and credit to my opponent for beating me. Good game.
If my opponent fields a unit or combo that seems grotesquely overpowered and undercosted, that I cannot deal with at all... then I'm really annoyed, but it's still my fault. Everything has a weakness. Even if it's "can only be in one place at one time".

But if, at the end of a brilliantly executed assasination run, I need to roll 7 or above (once) on 2 dice to win, and proceed to roll 4, then 5, then 3, then 4, then 6... I'm not taking the blame for that.

[stormwell]

Main reason I've lost games is forgetting to keep my 'caster properly shielded against a Cygnar gunline.

Secondary reason is generally lacking ranged options, then again I have ways of getting into combat quickly anyway.

And then when it gets down to 'caster vs. 'caster action dice rolls tend to go downhill, usually for both me and my opponent for some reason.

[Kamahin]

After all my games I always discuss what happened with my opponent in a positive way so both can gain something from the game. The only time I ever reflected negatively was a game where over 7 attacks from Mulg I never rolled a 5 or above to hit and completely missed a model he should have taken out. Resulting in losing my only heavy hitting the following turn, but bad luck happens and we move on.

[PG_carnage4u]

After all my games I always discuss what happened with my opponent in a positive way so both can gain something from the game. The only time I ever reflected negatively was a game where over 7 attacks from Mulg I never rolled a 5 or above to hit and completely missed a model he should have taken out. Resulting in losing my only heavy hitting the following turn, but bad luck happens and we move on.

talking about the game is often a good habit to get into. Some opponents wont want to chat much after a game, but it is nice to get the other players thoughts on the game. You can often get good insight after a game.

[CrookyKnows]

I'm not looking to attract a mate through the fine art of letting her win.

Damnit, I've been doing it wrong. I've always thought CRUSHING THEM UTTERLY AND WITHOUT MERCY was the key to attracting a mate.

Also, my wife HATES when people "let her win" at games. You either bring your all or you don't play as far as she's concerned(she doesn't play WM/H, but she DOES play board games and Magic).

My wife is the same. So I always try my best to CRUSH HER UTTERLY AND WITHOUT MERCY!!! Hey, you asked for it, babe.





Back on topic: when I lose I blame my opponent.

[lifelesspoet]

The only time I let someone win(by electing not to transfer damage) is at a con because I was leaving the table for another game. I wanted them to get the points for the kill because it wasn't his fault i was ditching. If there is an unskilled player that is learning i will play subpar models or an expiremental army. This way we are both challanged and we both learn.

I don't think there are enough girls in the hobby as it is, but if I and others who played them threw games and asked them for dates I don't imagine the numbers growing. I Just try to treat them as people, as fellow gamers and hopefully they like the game and have fun. Of course I have a girl, so even if she is pretty i think its safe to say that its not going anywhere.

Also, I hear people say that blaming dice is unsportsmenlike. I have won many games and blamed the dice, theirs and mine. If its in the context of discussing what went wrong after game, bad lists, poor model knowledge, bad matchup, bad strategy and dice luck are all legit reasons to lose games. The important thing is to not act like you won the game when you didn't or get worked up over it.

[Bunny de Guerre]

If the thing that ends the game is a fairly long-odds dice roll, I wouldn't be too surprised if that's the first thing after the game that gets commented on - I don't really see it as either party trying to make an excuse. Seeing the Number Of The Beast or Transcendental Snake Eyes always makes an impression, doubly so if it's the one that directly leads to a win or a loss.

I mean, when I get to the point where I'm relying on the stupidly unlikely assassination run and succeed because of my unswerving dedication to the Dice Gods, I don't think it's unreasonable for both of us to be surprised when it works. If somebody congratulated me for winning the game like that, I'd probably assume they were being sarcastic.

[jandrese]

The only time I let someone win(by electing not to transfer damage) is at a con because I was leaving the table for another game. I wanted them to get the points for the kill because it wasn't his fault i was ditching. If there is an unskilled player that is learning i will play subpar models or an expiremental army. This way we are both challanged and we both learn.

I don't think there are enough girls in the hobby as it is, but if I and others who played them threw games and asked them for dates I don't imagine the numbers growing. I Just try to treat them as people, as fellow gamers and hopefully they like the game and have fun. Of course I have a girl, so even if she is pretty i think its safe to say that its not going anywhere.

Also, I hear people say that blaming dice is unsportsmenlike. I have won many games and blamed the dice, theirs and mine. If its in the context of discussing what went wrong after game, bad lists, poor model knowledge, bad matchup, bad strategy and dice luck are all legit reasons to lose games. The important thing is to not act like you won the game when you didn't or get worked up over it.

I'm one of the first people to comment when my dice start to run hot. Other times though there is a perception that my dice were hot when in fact I was just setting up lots of easy kills through a combination of buffs or debuffs or status effects or just good target selection that gives the perception that my dice were hot.

Then there are those times when an unbuffed minimum unit of McThralls kill all but 1 Daughter of the Flame needing 10s to hit. That's a time it's legit to complain about the dice.

[Quizboy]

I don't think I've ever thrown a game because I wanted to impress an attractive opponent. Whether that speaks of my dedication to fair play and competition, or the general attractiveness level of Warmachine-playing guys, I leave open to speculation

[watchgeorgerock]

Some excuses are valid. Like when you are told a half truth.

[ExiledinElysium]

My bad habit after a loss is to immediately start picking apart my game. While that may seem nobel, it took me a while to concider how it looks from across the table. But when the first words out of you mouth are, "I lost because I did X" it really isn't as cool as it sounds in your head.

So now I make an effort (I don't always succeed) to congratulate the winner and talk about what they did well.

Unless it was something painfully obvious that influence the game the rolls don't get mentioned. Sure there are days when one player rolls 1s all the frigging time, or that guy who always rolls what they need, but most of the time that is just perception not fact so I try not to dwell on it besides joking around. It is like poker, luck is a factor, but luck seldom wins in the long run.

You've identified the main problem I have with the "excuse player."

It is generally bad to make excuses, but it's not really an excuse if the reason you lost really is because of one mistake you made. Making an excuse is saying "I only lost because of X," then not worrying about it because you feel like you easily could have won. Learning from your mistakes is saying "I lost because of X, and I can avoid that in the future by remembering Y." That's just player progress.

What should never be okay is talking about it with your opponent immediately after the game, as you say. Even if all you're trying to do is analyze your mistake so you don't do it next time, it invariably sounds to the other guy like you're saying, "You didn't win; I lost." This has happened to me a couple times. Sure, I play pKreoss a lot so I often don't have to put too much strategy into winning, and my win really is because he made a glaring mistake and the result became unavoidable. On the other hand, the couple times this has happened to me when I felt like I was being really clever and on top of my game, it was a slap in the face.

Probably my most rewarding game was when I was completely outmatched by a seasoned Cryx player, and I threw a hail mary at the end by sending my few remaining Knights Exemplar after Terminus who had just joined the fray. I got him down to three health boxes--so close! I remember this game fondly because my opponent complimented my efforts and admitted he was a little worried I might actually pull it off. Just goes to show it isn't about the win or lose, it's about how you play the game.

[Taslon]

IS it bad that when that attractive female was/is an equally skilled player, has much above sized embodiment of womanhood on upperbody with a top she barely fits into, and plays against me, bending over the table continuously, I admit that I lost from terrible play that game, but I completely blame that on distraction. She wasn't ashamed after game to admit it was part of her strategy. But I didn't mind what so ever that loss. One of my favorite games in history that was.

[Bollster]

It's important, I think, to have a nice little debrief after a game, to talk about what you thought your opponent did well, commiserate with them over unlucky dice and ask if they thought you made a key mistake at some point. If that turns into a "oh well I had you there then I messed it up and it's all my fault" then yeah, that's bad. But it's even more important to recognise that often, mistakes are made because your opponent is putting you under pressure. I once fluffed what should have been a "gimme" assassination run on Calandra in a two caster game because I tried to assassinate Madrak2 in the same turn and didn't have enough resources to do both. I should have realised that I couldn't kill both of them and just taken one, but the reason I made the mistake was because my opponent was playing so well that I felt like I had to end it there or I'd get tabled. So credit to him for that.

As for "attractive females", treat em like you'd treat anyone else, be friendly, competitive and whatever else you'd be towards Joe McEveryman if he was your opponent and you'll both have a great time. It isn't rocket science :P