Multitaskers! or: Our faction is flexible, how does that benefit us?

[The Key of E]

"Empty your mind...Be formless, shapeless, like water. Now you put water into a cup it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle, you put water into a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow, or it can crash. Be water, my friend." - Bruce Lee


My wife and I are big fans of celebrity chef Alton Brown. In his books and TV shows, he hates using what he calls "unitaskers," that is kitchen utensils that serve a single purpose. These are specialized kitchen implements that can only be used one way and are really a waste of space and money. He advocates buying (or sometimes making) multipurpose utensils that can be used for the specialized purpose you need at the time, but can also be used for other purposes later.

The Artificer Tactica by ucfan34 got me thinking. What if we applied the same idea to Warmachine? The Artificer is definitely multipurpose. In fact, it becomes pretty obvious that most of our models could be considered multipurpose. We can flow, like water...

So which of our models are the most flexible, and how do they benefit us? (I?ve included a couple of our Merc options.)


Strong Multipurpose: those models that do multiple things and do them well
Artificer ? Obviously, as he was the inspiration for this post.
Most of our Myrmidons ? Manticore, Phoenix, Aspis, Discordia, Banshee, and Hypnos are all very flexible and adaptable. You will rarely have a turn where they can?t meaningfully contribute.
Invictors ? Very strong shooting mixed with good melee on their own. Their melee goes from good to great with Flank.
Halberdiers ? One of the best tarpits in the game, they can tie up the midfield and contest control points, or provide a screening defensive line. Their strong charge can also be used offensively, especially with the UA's mini-feat.
Stormfalls ? Their different shot types let them do more than "just shoot." They can clear swathes of infantry (even shield walls) or pound a single heavy target. They are also more mobile than other artillery, both in faction and out.
Magister ? He can push stuff around at range, he can push stuff around in melee, he can knock stuff down in melee (or at range on a crit), and he can let other models move out of activation. One of our best solos.
Eiryss (both versions) ? She does a lot. I don?t feel like listing everything she does.
Nyss Hunters ? They?re mostly a shooting unit, but with Weapon Master they can do good damage in melee, too. With their high DEF, they make a good tarpit against anything that can?t boost to hit.


Weak Multipurpose: those models that do one thing very well but can also be used for other things
Sentinels ? Their strongest use is crushing high ARM models (?jacks, ?beasts, heavy infantry). Vengeance lets them tarpit or contest control points, because if the enemy doesn?t kill them all at once they?ll regret it.
Destor Thane ? He makes a great skirmisher with ride-by-attack and multi-shot, but also does very well in melee. He has a powerful lance charge (plus Impact attacks) and with Unyielding can also tie up low P+S infantry.
Skeryth Issyen ? Though he lacks a ranged attack, he can still be flexible. Like the Destor Thane he has a very strong charge and can tie up infantry. He's good at wrecking medium ARM targets like light 'jacks and can finish off a damaged heavy. His large base and the fact he can't die to one single attack (thanks to being a dragoon) makes him good at screening smaller models.
MHSF ? You take them for the ability to shoot through things. But when push comes to shove they can still do well in melee with CMA and high DEF. When charging a ?jack, they can put down pretty good damage.
Griffon, Daemon, Sphinx ? They?re not as flexible as some of our other myrmidons, but still pretty adaptable and definitely worth taking.
Chimera, Gorgon ? These two were originally ranked as unitaskers, but with two Open Fists and Combo Strike they can do more than just arc spells or lock stuff in melee.
HSBM ? They can push stuff around at range, push stuff around in melee, and knock down on a crit, but not as flexible or useful as the Magister.
Mage Hunter Assassin ? You take this little girl for Decapitation and the chance to do insanely high damage (dice gods willing). You keep her for her psychological effect on the opponent and that she can basically run-to-engage and lock stuff down (no one dares take a free strike from her). She also complements a shooting army, since she can put some damage on a big target then let the shooters finish it off without the target-in-melee penalty.
Narn ? With Acrobatics and two Weapon Master swords, he mainly does one thing: kill support solos hiding in the back lines. He can also put some damage on a warcaster, or finish off an injured one, but that?s less common. While he is VERY GOOD at that job, his other abilities also give him some flexibility. His crossbow lets him still contribute on turns where he doesn't have a good charge target, and Sprint lets him pull various shenanigans.
Arcanist ? Let?s face it, he only does one thing: he makes our ?dons better. But the myriad of ways he can accomplish that task make him far more flexible. Compare him to the mechanics in other factions, who are usually unitaskers.
Aiyanna & Holt ? You take them for Kiss of Lyliss, but Touch of Lurynsar and Holt?s handcannons will usually find a use.
AFG ? It only does one thing: shoot. However, its different shot types make it more adaptable so it should always find a way to contribute. Its biggest draw-back is its lack of mobility.
Sylys ? By himself he doesn?t do anything, but he?s very good at making our Warcasters better. He?s almost a unitasker in the sense that he?ll be doing the same thing turn-after-turn, but instead of him being flexible he makes our Warcasters more adaptable.


Confused Multipurpose: those models that can do multiple things, but might not do them well
Destors ? They look like they should be skirmishers, but you can?t use double-shot and ride-by-attack at the same time. You could charge them in, but even with Unyielding they usually die quickly.
Scyir ? His Order of Activation issues are his biggest weakness. His Drive is good so you want to use him to Marshal, but it?s hard to use Flank and his marshal ability unless you have other myrmidons around for him to Flank with.


Unitaskers: those models that really only do one thing, even if they do it well
Riflemen ? They?re just a plain, boring shooting unit and get overshadowed by our other shooting units that can do more.
Hydra ? The poor Hydra is our least-regarded myrmidon. It has a big gun but sadly doesn?t do much else. It might be good in melee if its Chain Attack hit more reliably, despite its low P+S.
Ghost Sniper ? A fairly one-dimensional shooting model. Singly they take out troopers okay and can cripple systems on a damaged ?jack. In pairs they easily kill 5 point models. But over-all, they?re pretty inflexible and don't contribute a lot.
Heavy Rifle Team ?With low POW and armor piercing, they are only good against big targets, and yet most of the time they don?t do enough damage against said targets to be worth taking. The fact that they can?t move and shoot makes them very inflexible (a problem with all Light Artillery units).


So one thing I immediately noticed here is that the models under Confused Multipurpose and Unitaskers seem like they are used on the table less than the more adaptable models. (*I am basing this observation on what I have seen players at my FLGS take, what I see on the list-building board here, and what I prefer to take myself.) So what does that mean for us? If we take the multipurpose models because they?re better than the Unitaskers, are they better BECAUSE of that flexibility, or are they better REGARDLESS of that flexibility?

We can ask the same question in regards to other factions. Everyone here brags about how good our units and solos are. Are they good because of that flexibility, or are they just plain good regardless of their flexibility? I don?t have much experience with anyone other than Cygnar, but it appears that most factions are less flexible than Retribution. They have more Unitaskers and fewer Multipurpose models. These other factions consider Nyss Hunters one of the best units in the game. Is it because the Nyss are so flexible?

So it seems that our adaptability as a faction is really a great strength. What can we do to make the most of this flexibility?

I appreciate the feedback so far. Are there any of the above models where you disagree with where I've ranked them? Are there some multipurpose models that you believe are less flexible than I rated them, and conversely are there any that I've marked unitaskers that you think can do more?

And above all, what can we do as a faction to make the most of our flexibility? What does it mean, in terms of the table top game, to "Be water?"

[Xeurian]

I think its a great strength of our faction that all of our flexible units are not as cut and dry as people might think. 5 points for a unit that can huck AOEs at stealthed targets AND light a shield wall on fire? Halbs who hit like a truck on a charge and can bunker in on objective? 90% of our jacks having guns? Yes please.

I like being able to field most of my favorite models and always having a use for them on the battlefield. Whether its tactically superior or not, its great fun. I rarely feel as though anything I own (barring the Hydra) has ever disappointed me in any of my games. Hell even my soulless has killed things with his flank, triggered a vengeance or brought the model count up in a unit to lessen the chances of command checks (not that my sentinels have ever failed one...yet).


As for the tactical advantage, I feel as though it may be slightly more complicated to get the full usage out of each of our models but once we have it down they can compete with most if not outclass some similarly pointed equivalents that are more focused. I find whenever I ask about an opponent's model my question is usually: "that's it?". While their questions about ours is often: "holy crap what else?".

All in all, I love our faction for the direction its going and the way I can multipurpose most of my models.

[Xarian]

Skeryth should be listed as 'weak', I think. he is a good roadblock too (and can survive any single hit due to his being a Dragoon) and ridiculously fast - can hunt down enemies in the back easily

[HellecticMojo]

you get a +1 points for me for just using Alton Brown.

"I said it was good, I didn't say it was points free"

[joelker41]

Alton Brown is my favorite TV host/chef! Go good eats!

I actually recently have been really impressed with the Gorgon. The ability to just walk up and shut down admonition, widowmakers, long gunners, etc is just so much fun. I really am feeling like it is an undiscovered gem (for me) marshalled to my sentinels. The beauty is it is a great multitaker. Infantry killer, incorporeal killer, combo strike Smasher, and can take decent abuse as a screener. Also, marshalling this guy makes trampling your Sentinels much harder if you position him right.

[dragonforcehair]

good analysis there.

I'd like to see what sort of categories you'd put our casters in?
obviously all casters do a few things but some are more versatile than others. ours seem to all have weakish support (one upkeep for a unit maybe a helpful feat) but various shenanigans to them.
eg. pVyros has weak support - superior melee beatface - no ranged.
Osssyan has good support - weak melee - weird 1-shot gun - supportive feat.
Garryth has very little support - superb melee - good guns - awesome offensive feat (but ineffective vs. hordes really)

which of these are 'multi-taskers' by warcaster standards? Could we play Garryth any other way than offensively? could we play any of them super-jack-heavy?

I've played all the 'casters but always tend to fall back on my favourites so i've got limited experience with some.
I'd like to see what people think (and maybe get some inspiration for an interesting list to play)

[dragonforcehair]

sorry. dup post

[Kallas]

A minor gripe, but by "Multi-Tasker" you mean "Multi-Purpose" right?

A Multi-Task model would be performing multiple roles at once (Ex: Battle Wizards like Hex Hunters)
A Multi-Purpose model would be performing a single role at any given moment, but would be able to switch that role given the circumstance (Ex: Invictors; MHSF)

As far as your list is concerned:

HSBM are both more and less versatile than the Magister: they each have less options than the Magister but the unit can manipulate significantly more overall.

Mage Hunter Assassin, I disagree with the assessment of Strong Multi-Tasker. She does one job, either really well, or terribly (she is dice dependant) but her effect is much more psychological. The assertion that she actually does many things is wrong.

Narn is very similar but I think you do him a disservice. He does one job extremely well, as you have outlined, and he also has a similar effect to the MHA (though less extreme but more reliable.) He, unlike the MHA, can actual do more: he has a gun. It's not going to break the game, but sometimes you can't get the charge, or don't need the run, or what have you and that gun will help more than the MHA's run would do. Simply put, Narn can do multiple things (melee or shoot) whereas the MHA can only do one (melee.)

Overall, I think your overview is pretty spot on. Nice.

[Kallas]

EDIT: Curse you double post!

[jhon]

This looks sticky worthy for newbs. Please mods????

[AJ the Ronin]

This is very close to the my idea of the "Book of Water" faction. Flexibility. Everything has an use. Even those tools that are shunned.

I may not agree with the terminology but it is very close to my philosophy when playing with the army.

[rwould]

Narn is very similar but I think you do him a disservice. He does one job extremely well, as you have outlined, and he also has a similar effect to the MHA (though less extreme but more reliable.) He, unlike the MHA, can actual do more: he has a gun. It's not going to break the game, but sometimes you can't get the charge, or don't need the run, or what have you and that gun will help more than the MHA's run would do. Simply put, Narn can do multiple things (melee or shoot) whereas the MHA can only do one (melee.)

The other factor with Narn is his ability to dive in to a ranged based (or slow) unit/solo courtesy of sprint after a charge. Whilst he may not do anything, and may die for the task, he forces the opponent to have to react and deal with him which may save something more useful from being targeted.

[Lord Sessadore]

This is very close to the my idea of the "Book of Water" faction. Flexibility. Everything has an use. Even those tools that are shunned.

I may not agree with the terminology but it is very close to my philosophy when playing with the army.

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe we should find the newbie help thread where everyone talked about that? It would probably tie into this thread pretty nicely.

"Book of Water" sounds so much cooler than "Multitaskers", though. (No offense, Key of E!)

[AJ the Ronin]

I being trying to write that for my local group but every time it ends up being more about my gaming philosophy rather than a "how-to" of the faction. Never finish it since my not be how others see or play the army.

BTW here is the thread: http://privateerpressforums.com/show...ighlight=water

[The Key of E]

A minor gripe, but by "Multi-Tasker" you mean "Multi-Purpose" right?

A Multi-Task model would be performing multiple roles at once (Ex: Battle Wizards like Hex Hunters)
A Multi-Purpose model would be performing a single role at any given moment, but would be able to switch that role given the circumstance (Ex: Invictors; MHSF)

As far as your list is concerned:

HSBM are both more and less versatile than the Magister: they each have less options than the Magister but the unit can manipulate significantly more overall.

Mage Hunter Assassin, I disagree with the assessment of Strong Multi-Tasker. She does one job, either really well, or terribly (she is dice dependant) but her effect is much more psychological. The assertion that she actually does many things is wrong.

Narn is very similar but I think you do him a disservice. He does one job extremely well, as you have outlined, and he also has a similar effect to the MHA (though less extreme but more reliable.) He, unlike the MHA, can actual do more: he has a gun. It's not going to break the game, but sometimes you can't get the charge, or don't need the run, or what have you and that gun will help more than the MHA's run would do. Simply put, Narn can do multiple things (melee or shoot) whereas the MHA can only do one (melee.)

Overall, I think your overview is pretty spot on. Nice.

Your point about terminology makes sense: "multitasker" usually means a person doing multiple things at once. "Multi-purpose" is a better term for a thing that is able to perform multiple tasks, but "multitasker" was the term used in the cooking shows. I'll edit the original post to be a little more clear.

I'm not yet convinced Narn and the MHA should both be moved to the Weak Multi-purpose section, but if you can make a more convincing argument then it would probably be beneficial to everyone. I'll probably move Skeryth Issyen to the Weak section as well.

[The Key of E]

I'd like to see what sort of categories you'd put our casters in?
obviously all casters do a few things but some are more versatile than others. ours seem to all have weakish support (one upkeep for a unit maybe a helpful feat) but various shenanigans to them.

Analyzing warcasters in this way would require it's own thread. You'd have to look at not only how the casters themselves are flexible, but also how flexible they are in supporting different types of armies. Kaelyssa would probably be the top of the list in terms of both her own flexibility as a model but also her flexibility in what kinds of armies she can support.

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe we should find the newbie help thread where everyone talked about that? It would probably tie into this thread pretty nicely.

"Book of Water" sounds so much cooler than "Multitaskers", though. (No offense, Key of E!)

I agree that "Book of Water" sounds cooler. While this thread definitely doesn't need a sticky, if everyone thinks it would be beneficial to newbies it could do with a link in Syvash Stronghold. I would also clean it up a bit, edit the thread title, and add some Bruce Lee quotes. "Now water can flow...or it can crash! Be water, my friend."



Since writing this, I've been pondering the Chimera. I'm probably short-changing it by putting it in the Uni-taskers. Apparition lets it get behind enemy lines easier, as well as disengage itself from melee. Both of these aspects help it be a great arcnode, but could it do more?

Let's assume the Chimera gets engaged but not destroyed. You Apparition away, trying to give yourself a favorable charge angle. You can use a Combo Strike to take out support solos or possibly even put some damage on their caster (boosting as needed, of course). It also has two open fists, so you can throw stuff at the caster or throw the caster him/herself. I'm strongly considering moving the Chimera into the Weak Multi-purpose section. (While the Gorgon also has Combo Strike and two open fists, not having Apparition means it's harder to do these kinds of shenanigans.)

Has anyone ever used a Chimera in this way?

[ucfan34]

I just saw this thread. Glad the Artificer tactica was good for something!

*Stuff removed*** Has anyone ever used a Chimera in this way?

This is funny. By the time I got to the end of the thread, the Chimera was the only thing I was going to mention. I use the Chimera like you mentioned quite often.

I don't know if I've ever gotten a throw off on a caster, but I've sure used the Chimera to 2 handed throw an infantry model at the unit's UA. It's comical how many times I've done this with the Chimera, and as long as your throw is successful, you can guaruntee that you'll always be out of melee afterwards due to the apparition move. I'd list the Chimera at minimum in the weak multipurpose section.

[The Key of E]

Updated original post.

[DesertSpiral]

Narn has a gun, just by the by. I agree with Kallas that he Mha is pretty singular in its ability to hurt things I'd reclassify both accordingly.

Or simply put which one of these is not 100% newts red by web of shadows if both are >4+" away from the enemy.

Flexability as I see it is the ability to use multiple paths to achieve the same end. Some paths are less efficient than others but the more paths you have the less likely they will all be cut off.

Also I feel the hsbm, and in particular the thane are far mmore adaptable than perhaps you
are crediting them.

Cheers

[DesertSpiral]

iPhone's...

[joelker41]

*Ahem*

Gorgon is NOT a uni-tasker...

[Lord Sessadore]

I definitely agree that the MHA needs to move down to at least the weak category. Thane, Issyen, MHSF, and Narn all have more options in a given turn. Can explain more in the morning if needed.

[The Key of E]

I put the MHA, Narn, and Gorgon in the Weak Multipurpose section.

I'm really liking the feedback, guys. This is awesome.