I'm loving me some WGRC

[StefDa]

I've recently acquired a full Winterguard Rifle Corps unit along with the famous Kovnik Joe and I must say, this little combo *does not* disappoint. That's 10 points I dare say can work with any of our 'casters because they're so self-sufficient.

Special mention, however, should go to pVlad (Signs & Portents), eVlad (Hand of Fate, feat), Vlad3 (Hand of Fate), and pButcher (feat). Technically also pIrusk due to his feat.

I had a game two nights ago against pHaley (who I strongly loathe and fear). I had

The Butcher
- Beast-09
- Kodiak
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr
10 WGRC
Kovnik Joe
10 Kayazy Assassins
- Underboss

Iron Flesh on the Assassins, Fury on Beast (why not) and when Beast and the Assassins were gone, I put Iron Flesh on the Butcher and camped the rest.

&%@§^ I hate pHaley and her Temporal Barrier. This game is all about aggression and it favours the aggressive player. pHaley takes away all this with Temporal Barrier. You can't run, you can't charge (virtually impossible to reach melee by now) and you lose 2 points of DEF. Sigh.

I ended up winning eventually because I very, very, very slowly had my Kodiak make it's way unmolested up the left flank and take down his 10 Longgunners+UA with it's Vemt Steam attack over a few turns. Had that not happened he could've taken the Butcher down with a few CRAs, but for some reason that never occurred to him - probably because Beast-09 was approaching his lines. Beast fell quickly to the Longgunners and some other stuff, though.

My point was, my WGRC was virtually unsupported.(except for Joe, though, his speeches made the difference) and they were just stellar. They're not overpowered, they're right where a 8+2 pts unit and solo should be. And they're FUN! Even more fun during the Butcher's feat turn and an aiming bonus, though...

I've noticed there isn't much talk about the WGRC on here. I guess that's because not too many people have experience with them? I suppose most players prefer the WGI Deathstar. However, I wouldn't touch that with a ten-foot-pole haha, I've got my WGRC and that's all I need

I hope to round up the few players who have experience so we can share what we've learned and thoughts for further examination. I'll likely get to play one or two games this Saturday and I plan to use my WGRC/Joe in both.

PS: This is *not* a discussion about pHaley!

[MikeC103]

I recently picked up the rifle corp, but haven't had time to put them on the table yet. Can you tell us a little more about what they did for you that game? Did you use the Covering Fire templates or did you just shoot stuff all game? Was Joe making them tough or giving them boosted attack roles?

[StefDa]

Sure thing.

I wanted to use the Covering Fire (CF) template, but I never experienced a situation where I wouldn't want a slew of RAT5+3D6 attacks instead. I used Joe's For The Motherland speech (boosts) all the time - Tough may be good too, but not as good as boosted attack rolls on a unit with RNG 14". They took some shots at Sword Knights for the first one turn, then I popped Butcher's feat the following turn. During the feat they aimed at pHaley and reduced her to three health - it should have gone a lot better but I was an idiot and scrapped an Ironclad for her to hide behind, making it a lot harder. This, I feel, is their strongest use with the Butcher - go after the juicy targets under For The Motherland and the feat. They are simply amazing. And if they can aim at the same time? Gravy.

This is basically what I did, and what I loved doing; Joe for the boosted attack rolls, then barring extremely high armour or Stealth, you can basically pick and choose between any infantry models within 14" to die.

[ShockwaveIIC]

I've used the Rifle Corp a couple of time now, and it's frequently been a game of "oh dear, you've end your turn within 20" and on less than 18ARM, oops."


The list I use them in is pButcher along with Joe, Spriggen and Aiyana.

[OrsusSmash]

I've noticed there isn't much talk about the WGRC on here. I guess that's because not too many people have experience with them? I suppose most players prefer the WGI Deathstar. However, I wouldn't touch that with a ten-foot-pole haha, I've got my WGRC and that's all I need

I think the reason WGRC aren't really widely used or discussed is exactly what you said: we already have WGI, and most players don't expand out much past those. They see the sprays that the WGI offer, and then look at the shooting of the WGRC, and just pass.

IMO, that's a mistake. Don't get me wrong: WGI are a freakishly good unit with Joe backing them up, and if you can slap Iron Flesh on them, they'll dictate most of the game for your opponent. However, as more and more anti-infantry/anti-upkeep stuff pops up, I think we as a community need to learn to explore all of our anti-infantry options, and not get pigeon-holed.

In fairness, I think a lot of that comes from 35 points being a pretty common game size. At 35, you don't really have a lot of wiggle room in list builds, so you end up having to take the most efficient, effective models for the job; a multitasking monster like the WGI ends up being a no brainer. At 50 though, you can much more easily build to account for a unit's weaknesses with other entries, and thus have a list that's more diverse overall.

For instance, one of the main reasons WGI are favored over WGRC is that WGI can shoot at Stealth models (via grapeshot,) whereas WGRC are left twiddling their thumbs. At 35, that's a big problem; at 50, you can much more easily bring along other models (Kayazy to engage, or Ternion for their sprays) to compensate for that.

With that rant out of the way: I love the WGRC. They have an absolutely awesome walking threat range, which allows them to reach out and touch pretty much any model on the board after the first turn, and with Joe around they're very likely to hit whatever they're shooting at (their great RNG also lets them get the aiming bonus more often.)

WGRC are great at two things, both of which are really useful: murdering infantry with ARM < 17 (you can murder higher ARM more reliably with Aiyana & Holt, S&P, HoF, or Butcher1's feat,) and getting at backfield models. That second feature is actually one of my favorite facets of the unit. It can normally be pretty hard to get at Choir/Paingivers/Shepherds/Kreilstone/Mechaniks because of how far back they are, but WGRC can almost always reach them (and hit them, with Joe yelling at them.) Fan WGRC out on a flank and watch your opponent sweat how they're going to advance without losing all their support.

Also, even though their offensive potential is why most people bring them, Suppressing Fire shouldn't be underestimated. If you bring the full unit of WGRC, you have a lot of models to lose before you get below a 4" AOE, which is a huge chunk of the table to block off from infantry. Anything with ARM 16 or less is risking a fair chance at death to charge/run through a POW 10, and even higher ARM infantry may get picked off by some spike damage rolls. Plus, since you don't need Joe for accuracy, he can give the unit Tough and Fearless that turn to buffer out against any casualties they might take.

I've actually toyed around with the idea of bringing just a minimum unit of WGRC in lists where I'm bringing a few warjacks (or Conquest) to have them hang out behind and just drop 4" Suppressing Fire templates all game. 5 PC isn't too bad of a price to pay for a place-able auto-damage AOE, and a lot of common enemy infantry units won't be able to make it through that template without some shenanigans.

Finally, as ShockwaveIIC pointed out: WGRC can be an awesome "pocket assassination" threat. A lot of 'casters survive on their DEF, and are really vulnerable to accurate attacks if they drop too much focus. Warlocks are usually even more vulnerable to multiple low POW attacks, as they can't inherently boost ARM. WGRC are tailor made to deliver a volley of high accuracy, low POW attack with Joe, and with Butcher1 or A&H, the attacks aren't even that low POW! With the inherent threat range of the WGRC, your opponent has to be really careful, or risk losing the game to a hail of lead from left field.

[Octavius_Maximus]

The Riflemen are a very cool unit, but i feel that they need access to a Damage boost of some kind to remain relevant in the game later on.

Some tactics i'm thinking about using with the Riflemen:

1. The Obvious ones out of the way: Butchers Feat turn and Joe. Signs and Portents, Hand of Fate, Fortune/
2. Take a Unit with the Demolisher. When it Opens up and makes 2 massive holes in a high Def unit. Pop Suppression fire between them and it so it can hopefully survive the retaliation.
3. Drop Suppression fire on a Unit under Epic Irusks Feat. -2 Speed and No Orders means it can get hard to avoid being in it at the end of activations. This applies to quite a few Speed reducers.


But i think PButcher is one of the better casters for them. He wants a way to reach out and Touch someone, they want a way to hit harder.

[Wisible]

My WGRC w/ Joe shot up Kara Sloan. With Hark's Fortune on them it was just target practice. The irony was delicious.

[RocketSurgeon]

I love my RCs. They've nearly retired my Widowmakers and even take over for my melee/tarpit units in some lists. Thanks to their high body count and Joe giving them tough when needed, they're good at transitioning from firing line to roadblock.
Their self-sufficiency lets them show up and perform in lists where other units would lag behind or just get in the way. Self-sufficiency is one of the key attributes that brought me to the motherland.

For me they're most common under Butcher1, Irusk2, Vlad2, and Karchev. I like them with Vlad1, but he makes so many other choices shine that I typically use him to knock the dust off other models.

[Skylifter]

I'm just theorising here, but couldn't they be even more awesome at destroying low ARM infantry with Shatterstorm from eSorscha on them? At the very least, this will force the opponent to really spread his units out, making them less able to do damage themselves to a single target.

[PG_screamindaemon]

I use rifle corp with Old Witch, pButch and eSorscha.
All casters take the WGI as well.

Boosted attack rolls at 20" is fantastic. Joe supports them for the first two turns, while WGI advance under Iron Flesh and Bob and Weave. Turn 3 Joe switches to WGI to give them boosted sprays, and then Rifle Corp lays down covering fire to discourage charges on the WGI.

Add in Aiyanna and Holt for magic attack options, and everything except jacks or shield wall troops will fear you. And hey, we have Widowmakers for shield wall...
eSorscha always gives them Shatterstorm. Especially good on Retribution gun line in defensive formation. Course I don't kill that many when they are high arm, but get one Shatterstorm off, and they usually break up into packs of three.

Khador gun machine is dangerous.

[kenc]

I'm loving em too, and their models are so much cooler than WGI. I'm thinking about picking up another box, greenstuffing their rifles into blunderbuss and using them as the WGI xD

[Digilante]

I use rifle corp with Old Witch, pButch and eSorscha.
Joe supports [the Rifle Corps] for the first two turns, while WGI advance under Iron Flesh and Bob and Weave. Turn 3 Joe switches to WGI to give them boosted sprays, and then Rifle Corp lays down covering fire to discourage charges on the WGI.

This. Works like a charm.

You don't see WGRC a ton because without Joe they drop from bananas to merely good, and we have plenty of other infantry options that remain bananas. Most people use Joe for the WGI over the WGRC, but a list with both can share him pretty efficiently between CRA and Covering Fire.

[DoktorVivi]

I'm loving em too, and their models are so much cooler than WGI. I'm thinking about picking up another box, greenstuffing their rifles into blunderbuss and using them as the WGI xD

There's a conversion on the forums where someone already did that actually. Turned out really good. Planning on doing the same

[PG_screamindaemon]

This. Works like a charm.

You don't see WGRC a ton because without Joe they drop from bananas to merely good, and we have plenty of other infantry options that remain bananas. Most people use Joe for the WGI over the WGRC, but a list with both can share him pretty efficiently between CRA and Covering Fire.

Thanks for clearing up my intentioned wording.

We do have many other banana-quality units. and my witch list uses them all! WGI, WGRC, assassins and Nyss with Behemoth! Covering Fire, Murder of Crows, and Feat are 3 great ways to control your enemies line of sight and charge options.

[PG_screamindaemon]

Edit: double post

[Threelefts]

I often use them in tandem with doomreavers.

If my doom reavers cannot make the charge, I run them up to engage and then place a 5" suppression on them from the WGRC.
If my enemy stays to kill the doomies they take POW 10, if they run...free strikes.

[Steamwitch]

I like to charge/run a threating unit in like doomie, ifp, kayazi assassin. Then plop the proper sized aoe over them all they stay and get hit or move and get hit. Win, win. I got that from the old witch feat trick.

[Aylw]

I play 35 points mostly, and a min WGRC with Joe are great addition. I find a min unit is fine, as 5-8 isn't a big enough bonus; They maintain most of their threat and covering fire without the 4 extra guys. I'd almost rather take 2 groups of 6 for the flexibility.

Instead, I take a mortar and field gun; When the WGRC lays down the covering fire, Joe either gives them tough, or buffs the field gun to improve crit knockdown chance. I thought field gun would be lacklustre, but it's surprisingly cheap, considering it's 3 guys for 2 points.

I guess I could take WGI instead, but they're way too good, and more importantly, way to ugly, to play in good conscience.

[SmellyTerror]

My only problem with WGRC is: Nyss. For versatility, Nyss are just too good for the same 10 points.

I love the RC. It was my first main-line unit, and they are an excellent unit. The hilarious antics you can pull with suppression is just icing on the cake (consider: about to be mass-charged by enemy infantry? Put the suppressive fire template over your soon-to-be-charged model (Yuri? Caster? Even a jack) – and now the enemy will take horrendous losses if they go in). Sure, you shoot when you can shoot, but moving 6” and popping the template to touch impassable terrain can force a stupidly-long walk-around. Or put it down over an objective: stay and die, or move and lose the game.

Great range, ranked fire, brilliant support from Joe. Great unit.

…but now I have Nyss, they’ll mostly see action at games over 50 points, and that’s not likely to happen often.

[nerdkingdan]

I really have spent most of my games working with the rifle core, they were the first unit I bought, I picked up a WG infantry box that had the rifle core in it instead....

With that said, the limitation I run into with them is that the template they place must be completely within range of all participants, the weakness here is you have to bunch up quite a bit to pull this off. Making you very weak to aoe. I like the unit but that flaw has come up a bit too much.

[swirly]

Anyone know how suppressing fire works with tactical supremacy? If the RC move back after placing the template does it still stay put?

[Octavius_Maximus]

Yes it does!

[swirly]

Awesome!

Bunch up, drop plate, spread out.

[Shwan]

I almost pulled of some awesome magic with eSorcha and WGRC.

Had a bunch of Satyx Raiders bunched up around my fateweaved Behemoth (I was against eSkarre). I read Sorcha spell list, specifically Freezing Grip. Then Read the stationary rules (more specifically the "can't move this turn"). Then read the WGRC's covering fire rules ("model ends their activation within the AOE").

Eureka! Unfortunately the raiders we're in a forest so I missed the attack roll even boosted, but it was at that moment I realized picking the WGRC over Steelhead Riflemen was a prudent choice.

[Digilante]

Suppressing fire says they have to enter or end their activation in the AOE to take the POW 10. Stationary models do not activate.

Once you're out of eSkarre's feat turn though WGRC will mop up satyxis with joe and aiming, so freezing grip is still a good way to neutralize them. Of course usually you are more worried about the deathjack that eSkarre shoves in your grill.

[Shwan]

That's what I get for only playing 3 times with her so far. But WGRC hasn't let me down to date either way.

[SmellyTerror]

Suppressing fire says they have to enter or end their activation in the AOE to take the POW 10. Stationary models do not activate.

Stationary models are deemed to have been activated at the end of the player's turn. Not sure where that's from (maybe errata or something) but I'm sure of the rule, since I've heard it quoted from a lot of people.

That's scientific rules-lawyerin' for ya!

[haunter1029]

Fear the RC with Joe and signs and portents up. Incredible unit with Butcher/Sorsha's/Vlad/Irusks. Solo's and support have a very hard time surviving. I bought these guys for my son instead of the normal DS gaurd and I think tactically they are just more flexible and haveing played against both fear the rifle corps more because of thier extended threat range. Color me impressed.

[Digilante]

Stationary models are deemed to have been activated at the end of the player's turn. Not sure where that's from (maybe errata or something) but I'm sure of the rule, since I've heard it quoted from a lot of people.

Interesting, but until I find that written somewhere I wouldn’t try to get away with it in a game.

[NYCowboy]

I love WGRC with old witch. The board control is amazing, you frustrate opponents and just pick models off all game. I can't count how many games I have won with that tandem where I lost less then 5vp.

I have also found great success with eSorcha and pVlad as of late.

[Jrandom36]

When building an "all comers" list, I find it hard to not include a Spriggen when taking them. And if I already had another Jack in mind it makes it tough.

I also played a game with them vs Gators, who weren't afraid of Pow 10 at all. I eventually had them charge in with Joe's +3 STR and Battlelust. Which wasn't amazing, but I was desperate.

I feel that with the emergence of "Colossals," they are going to become less useful, until they get a way to access CRA.