Book price is....

[lifelesspoet]

Price is no matter considering other comparable game rule books cost above 60. What I want to know is the release date.

Not to be rude, but can you name some? Hackmaster and runequest I believe are 60, and you get more pages. but most games I have ever seen are 35-50.

I admit this is a hard industry and the only way you make good money is by volume like wizards of the coast or by having a big margin. I don't have a lot of money, I would however excuse this if i knew the developers are paid better then average for the industry.

[Sosthenes]

I admit this is a hard industry and the only way you make good money is by volume like wizards of the coast or by having a big margin.

Or by doing it PoD, although RPG customers are pretty spoiled by glossy, full-color books, and you can't do that on a reasonable budget there.

[pavel0]

I'm still hoping for softcover. Game designers never think about people on a budget. I've never done any tabletop RPGS and want to try this one.

[Sthiel]

Original books were set in 605 ar I believe. And no Warjacks have been around for centuries and guns are pretty mainstream. Like no one would be shocked and amazed to see your character walking around with a pistol.

Mapwise the main differences are that the Protectorate of Menoth now has a presence in Eastern Lael (the city of leryn) and Khador "controls" the thornwood, though that's pretty tenous. Also Ord has de facto control of the cygnaran city of Fellig. And the Skorne are in the bloodstone marches. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Hope that helps some.

I (respectfully) disagree on guns being mainstream. I think the newer setting has made them a lot more so because of Warmachine, but in the original though granted no one would be shocked at seeing you with a gun, they were hideously expensive as were the bullets. On top of that they were with few exceptions single shot affairs. Perhaps my skewed view of Immoren makes it so, but in our games that's one of the things that set Gunmages and Pistoleers apart. Though no one would be shocked, they would notice that you had a gun, certainly everyone didnt have one.

I have always looked at it like Rennesaince (sp) era fire arms, where they were few and in the hands of the rich and powerful. In the Character Guide, a Military Pistol is 300 gold while a Battleblade is only 22 gold. Ammo for a Military pistol is 8-10 gold per shot.

[lifelesspoet]

Or by doing it PoD, although RPG customers are pretty spoiled by glossy, full-color books, and you can't do that on a reasonable budget there.

As I understand it, POD cost more and is used primarily by those that can't afford storage. I would think small markets and increased overhead would mean less profit.

I don't need color or gloss or hard covers and simple illustrations are plenty. There are some great games that come with low print value. The cost cutting i like the most is digest size books. Diaspora packs a lot of great game into a cheap book with little production value and the game itself doesn't suffer.

[Whimper]

Privateer Press was founded by three visual artists who wanted to make products from their art. I would be disappointed with a products with "little production value and simple illustrations."

[Bubbles]

Also I think that quite a few people might pick it up for the visual/story appeal first, RPG second.

[Munindk]

Come on guys, its PP - even the artists believe in Page 5, so there had better be amazing art!

[Beckman]

I'm still hoping for softcover. Game designers never think about people on a budget. I've never done any tabletop RPGS and want to try this one.

Production costs are largely dictated by the amount of time spent on the product by people that have to be paid. Not on the publishing costs... So I don't think making it a softcover is going to change the price that much.

[TheIronclad]

Not to be rude, but can you name some? Hackmaster and runequest I believe are 60, and you get more pages. but most games I have ever seen are 35-50.

I should mention in the northern kingdom of Canada RPG core books are always 10-20 dollars more than the American price. Even so the FFG 40K rpg core books are roughly 69.99 (in Canada) and to play D&D you need 3 core books to play at $40 dollars each. 60 dollars for one core book is an acceptable price especially since Privateer Press makes superior products in my opinion.

[AJ the Ronin]

It is official. The book is coming in October.

http://www.thewarstore.com/PIPPRE.html (keep in mind that by December 2012 the link will no longer show the pertinent information...so you have being warned future searchers )

[Bubbles]

Yay I can't wait. What do you mean buy it not showing up after december. I kinda get the feeling it's a joke about the end of the world but Im not sure

[Munindk]

And I can get it around the 24th of October in Europe!

[Rapier]

October makes me sad. When's the book after that coming? :P

[AJ the Ronin]

Yay I can't wait. What do you mean buy it not showing up after december. I kinda get the feeling it's a joke about the end of the world but Im not sure

That page by December will show the January, February and March pre-orders. People that check the link after that won't see the book since it no longer be on pre-order.

[Bubbles]

Will the Book be in Stores around the globe on the day it's released in october or will I have to wait a few days/weeks until someone here stocks it because I really don't want to be paying the books price in shipping fees to get it over here to oz. I'd rather pay the extra 20 bucks in store and have it right away.

[PG_Goldstep]

... to play D&D you need 3 core books to play at $40 dollars each. 60 dollars for one core book is an acceptable price especially since Privateer Press makes superior products in my opinion.

I could nit-pick that it's $35 instead of $40... but the big thing is this... if I want to play, I only needed to buy the player book for $35. The one person running the thing could buy the other 2.

When I look at this I see $60... almost double... and I see something where I still don't have the Monsternomicon. The way my reading of this goes... this is 2 of the three you've compared pricing to so double is fine for the guy who runs the stuff.
But double is crippling for the players.

I remember from the 3.5 days "We can all share the book," doesn't work. First off, I still occasionally glare at the guy who wrote in the margins of the fell caller entry. But also, by the time the book got around to 4 players the first lost interest.


My experience from begging people to by the core rulebook for Warmachine/Hordes is that (1) $30 is the tipping point for most people on the price of a book and (2) if you don't invest in the book, you never get the most out of the game.
And I think it's true for this too. Which makes me sad.

[Rapier]

In my experience of roleplaying 1 copy of "the player guide" (or in other systems "the book") is enough - multiple copies of the core books is nice and all but after genning/during level up when else do you use any of the books? The GM might look up stuff mid-game if a rules query is raised - the GM needs a copy between sessions to get ready.

In my gaming group the GM who wants to run X system - provides all the books and after playing it if people like it they'll go and buy themselves a copy. My understanding is that this book is more equivalent to Dark Heresy and Eclipse Phase than it is to the Player's handbook (3.5) - it will have everything you need to play including some monsters. More and better detailed monsters will come later (are any of the 3 books slated to be the new monsternomicon? I didn't think a single monster only book had been announced yet).

It may be more like Pathfinder core book (which is GM + Player book - lacking in monsters)

[jdripley]

It's been stated that the first book will contain both an assortment of enemies as well as rules for creating your own enemies (not calling them "monsters" because enemies is a more generic term). I believe that each of the other 4 books will also have a section for enemies - probably without the rules for creating enemies, but perhaps with some new rules to plug into enemy creation.

[WarpedWolf]

Usually when I run any game, I try to have two copies of the core rulebook available. One for my reference as GM, and one to 'float the table.' Especially with a new system, which IK will be to us. Yeah, it'll be similar to WMH, but there will be differences.

[gundark]

Sure there is - they want to encourage you to buy the tree version . Its pretty standard to put the tree version out for several months before putting out the PDF version.

For PP maybe. Most publishers now either release the PDF ahead of the book or at the same time. Many publishers also give the PDF for free or at a discount if they pre-order the book. With smartphones and tablets becoming more and more common it makes a lot of sense. Also many people won't drop cash on the book but many pay for a cheaper PDF.

If what you say is PP's actual stance, then they are in the minority compared to a lot of other publishers

[FrankJaeger]

For PP maybe. Most publishers now either release the PDF ahead of the book or at the same time. Many publishers also give the PDF for free or at a discount if they pre-order the book. With smartphones and tablets becoming more and more common it makes a lot of sense. Also many people won't drop cash on the book but many pay for a cheaper PDF.

If what you say is PP's actual stance, then they are in the minority compared to a lot of other publishers

This. I can cite CraftyGames with their release of the Mistborn RPG. The pdf got out in december last year and everyone that pre-ordered the book could get it free. Only last month the physical books were released.

Personally, I always prefer to get the pdf of the game first, play enough times to understand the system and only then I decide if it is worth to buy the book or not.

[Rapier]

For PP maybe. Most publishers now either release the PDF ahead of the book or at the same time. Many publishers also give the PDF for free or at a discount if they pre-order the book. With smartphones and tablets becoming more and more common it makes a lot of sense. Also many people won't drop cash on the book but many pay for a cheaper PDF.

If what you say is PP's actual stance, then they are in the minority compared to a lot of other publishers

Most small publishes do this because it's a much smaller initial investment then they can cover the cost of the hardbacks from pdf sales - additionally most people who pay for their cheap pdf will buy the hardback but the instances of piracy will be minor for an unknown or small system.

There's more money doing it the other way for the larger publishers still I think.

[lifelesspoet]

The game industry is where the music industry was 10 years ago. Independants are making a name for themselves catering to a new market with a piracy risk while old media is fighting it relying on traditional means of profit. The tables will turn when a rpg book portal provides more convience to buy then to pirate. Its not far off and I'm convinced that most viable avenues for this are being discussed at PP. The piracy will get worse before this happens. If I had a scanner I would at least copy books for myself and give important pages to players so they can look things up without hogging the book.
My hardline rule is don't play anything you didn't pay for and my players think don't touch paper if there is a digital copy available. They don't like hearing me tell them they can't use anything from a book they got off a torrent site.

[scout's honor]

I could nit-pick that it's $35 instead of $40... but the big thing is this... if I want to play, I only needed to buy the player book for $35. The one person running the thing could buy the other 2.

When I look at this I see $60... almost double... and I see something where I still don't have the Monsternomicon. The way my reading of this goes... this is 2 of the three you've compared pricing to so double is fine for the guy who runs the stuff.
But double is crippling for the players.

Two comments:
1) D&D is still the big dog in the RPG market, even if they've been slipping. Given the volume of books WotC can reasonably expect to sell compared to the much lower volume in PP's (and really all others) case, a difference in margin on individual books is unavoidable
2) with multiple PHBs (+ Essentials), multiple X Power books and multiple setting books available, it's a little dishonest to just compare the respective core books. Obviously you don't need all of that, or indeed any of it beyond the core book(s), and there'll be source material for the IK RPG as well, but since I don't know a single D&D 4E player who only ever bought the 1st PHB I'd say it's a relevant point.

[AJ the Ronin]

The table of content
http://privateerpress.com/files/IKRPGTOC_0.pdf

[Munindk]

Looking good, I am a bit worried about the fluff to crunch ratio though. Hopefully they're fitting most of the crunch into the first book to make room for more fluff in the following books, kinda like Prime and the Forces of... books

[AJ the Ronin]

Hopefully it means the other books will be more fluff and less crunch.

Better yet it means its a complete game and the other books crunch are just add-on.

[lifelesspoet]

I would prefer one straight up crunch book then setting books. I have no criticism as I see the merits here. But I take so much liberty with the settings i run that you can pretty much put in a page of bullet points and a map and I'd run it. I may be weird but I have a really hard time reading things that aren't strict facts and figures and retaining that knowledge.

[Bubbles]

I was kinda dissapointed that the book isn't set in 608ar so they could continue the story after colossals/gargantuans or whatever other releases PP makes for Warmahordes. If you look at most of the books PP have released they have been evenly filled with crunch and fluff.

[FrankJaeger]

So... Eight pages of bestiary? Thats not much, to say the least...

[Munindk]

I was kinda dissapointed that the book isn't set in 608ar...

Where does it say that? From what I've been reading on the forums it IS set in 608ar

[PG_Goldstep]

Eight pages of Bestiary isn't an issue, if you are referring to a book wherein most of it is for players. Those pages describe the monsters that every town guard, farmer, and barrel-maker knows. They also might know to call for an adventurer's help while they run screaming, but we're not talking about something like a Bloodstone Manticora (MN2, page 18) or a Desert Hydra (page 36) which the players likely don't know much about anyway. And if soon after the Gamemaster can get nice set of ideas in a published adventure or if the sections in the index for page 330 is pretty clear how to take things from the setting and change them from MN entries and WarmaHordes models into reasonable encounters.

I will admit, it is mostly a player's guide and while we could engage in a "crunch v fluff" topic, there's a lot there. Which means it might be out of my price range, but that is is correctly priced.

[Bubbles]

Where does it say that? From what I've been reading on the forums it IS set in 608ar

You know what your right. I misread one of the posts and I thought it was set in 605ar. Ok now Im no longer dissapointed so far about anything with the book.

I wouldn't really like a book that is primarily crunch. I tend to prefer a book when it has some nice fluff in it.

[Bubbles]

Where does it say that? From what I've been reading on the forums it IS set in 608ar

You know what your right. I misread one of the posts and I thought it was set in 605ar. Ok now Im no longer dissapointed so far about anything with the book.

I wouldn't really like a book that is primarily crunch. I tend to prefer a book when it has some nice fluff in it.

[Blockbuster]

is there a confirmed street date? i searched around i didnt see one

[Teufelhunde]

is there a confirmed street date? i searched around i didnt see one

Sept. 19.

http://privateerpress.com/iron-kingd...o-september-19

[notsoevil]

I'm still on the fence about the game.

My thought for today after going through the book again: too much IK history that players just aren't going to read. This should have been more focused on Players. All that energy on history fluff, and they can't write decent descriptions of spells. The spells are just faceless POWs and mechanics.

Two smaller books launched at the same time would have been better. One for the rpg crunch, one for the setting. It feels incomplete right now.

[Lachlan the Mad]

Please, please, please tell me that I won't have to pay a 50% markup because I live in Australia like I usually have to do with RPG rulebooks...