Buff to Creeping Barrage?

[mozart]

So far it seems that the vast majority of complaints in regard to Conquest is Creeping Barrage. I was just wondering, is there anything that we can do to buff this up a bit? What are you going to try to get the most out of Creeping Barrage?

[Binz]

Well I assume Signs and Portents would affect the damage rolls, making it go from a measly POW6 (killing only infantry with ARM 12 or less on average) to a POW8, (killing infantry with ARM14 or less on average).

Still not really protecting you from anything thats really deadly like Bane Thralls though.

[rivenwyrm]

S&P lasts for a turn. Careful, almost all damage buffs are one-turn log.

[John of Arc]

I don't. If your opponent doesn't have any light infantry for Creeping Barrage, there's no reason to try and get it to work. You either throw it out there and hope for high rolls, or just go for the direct hits with the guns if your opponent is in range. Creeping Barrage isn't especially powerful, but it covers a wide area and it's better than not having that sort of tech, which most colossals lack. Conquest definitely isn't a waste if you aren't getting anything out of the Barrage.

[Ganso]

I'm planning to buff it the best way I know how, by ignoring it and using focus to boost favorable deviations on normal attacks.

[Binz]

S&P lasts for a turn. Careful, almost all damage buffs are one-turn log.

Thats what I get for not double checking. Thanks, but now I cant really think of much else to help with Creeping Barrage >.<

[Esper]

Harm from A&H lasts a round, but then that's against a single model/unit.

[Steamwitch]

Quick question are they cloud effects at all?

[Ganso]

Quick question are they cloud effects at all?

nope

10chars

[thrasymacus]

Ragman extending his -2 ARM to a unit that going to get engaged. They have to be engaging the friendly unit before they hit the template though. Very tricky, but you'd surprise a few people I'm sure.

[Raktra]

HoF helps I think. Fairly certain it just says "attack and damage rolls", not "attack damage rolls". Though given the nature of the Barrage, I could be wrong.

[Steamwitch]

*sigh* Gets blander, and blander. I just got a gun carrage in place of konquest after reading about it. I had hope but the book is published and we are screwed. That is sadly my final judgement. I suppose i could proxy him with the carrage base tho? Still disapointed we get more of the same and the most underwhemlming fire power to date in our arsenal. (IRONY? considering we are supposed to hit the hardest, but come on man giant doublebarrel cannons, pow of a standard warcaster side arm...if it could both barrels ala'gorten grundback style i would be happyer. pow 6 what a joke, winter guard can walk thru that on just under average rolls! Im done i promise.

The helpful bit of this post: Could fire for effect work on it? If it were tech. The first "shot" it works on herne and jhon, why not here? Scattershots a *attack but its a ranged attack and damage roll that happens to have more AOE's by that logic and ruleing it should work? still pitiful (sorry)

[mcdermott]

Here's the other thing about those guns tho....they're also guns rather than templates...and given the whole "stealthed annoying solo" issue that can truly bone a warjack...the ability to basically unload 4 templates at it and hope for a 1 or 2 on scatter distance while holding 1 focus to boost the blast damage roll isn't all that bad of a thing either.


Frankly I'm just pretty convinced that our warjacks are poor to mediocre without much in the way of standouts compared to other factions in their point value.

[OldOneEye]

Who else read the topic title and scrambled in here hoping for some hidden gem from the Infernals? :P

Also, Fire for Effect only works during a model's activation. No effect on the Creeping Barrage.

I think my game plan will be to ignore the Creeping Barrage rules and just take my 4 shots a turn instead with the Secondary Batteries.

[Steamwitch]

I dug up the card it reads "Boost the attack and damage Rolls of target friendly faction models 1st ranged attack each activation" as long as FFE is on him and he fires the AOE's then the models go inside them it should work out of activation or not as it dosent specify what happens after as it dosent say "turn, round, or anything" but i may just be getting too hopeful. We all know khador dosent get cool tricks like that even tho the rules plainlybread as sutch. *cough* flairs *cough*

[Octavius_Maximus]

Creeping Barrage= Yet another thing your opponent has to worry about. And that is always a good thing.

I mean, Put the templates between your lines and Bane Thralls. Now they have to worry about them. So chances are it wont kill them, yes. But its also pretty damn annoying when it does, and with 4 of them, you could easily hit every bane thrall. (10's required)

Also not quite sure, but what happens if they enter 2 of them during their movement?

That doesnt seem to include the hilarity of using them against very low arm models such as Kayazy, Daughters, Rangers, Satyxis (once you blow away the leader with an AOE), etc. Who all rely on their speed to entangle.

[Steamwitch]

but at that point couldent you just thresher spechal? Or is his mat that average?

[Ender_Melchior]

I dug up the card it reads "Boost the attack and damage Rolls of target friendly faction models 1st ranged attack each activation" as long as FFE is on him and he fires the AOE's then the models go inside them it should work out of activation or not as it dosent specify what happens after as it dosent say "turn, round, or anything" but i may just be getting too hopeful. We all know khador dosent get cool tricks like that even tho the rules plainlybread as sutch. *cough* flairs *cough*

But creeping barrage isn't an attack. You do that in place of an attack. FFE should be used on the Main Gun, to increase that crit chance

[Steamwitch]

ugg figures. I think i have to conceed. The best way to use creeping barage is to ignore it.

[John of Arc]

but at that point couldent you just thresher spechal? Or is his mat that average?

*No* warjack can Thresher infantry reliably without a buff except for Beast 09.

[PG_Duckboy]

Power sweeps needs no LOS, which is awesome.

[Natetehaggresar]

Sweeps also require you to be within 2 inches, a creeping barrage discourages models from nearing that are much father away (although not as well).

[Septimus]

I dug up the card it reads "Boost the attack and damage Rolls of target friendly faction models 1st ranged attack each activation" as long as FFE is on him and he fires the AOE's then the models go inside them it should work out of activation or not as it dosent specify what happens after as it dosent say "turn, round, or anything" but i may just be getting too hopeful. We all know khador dosent get cool tricks like that even tho the rules plainlybread as sutch. *cough* flairs *cough*

This... seems like a terribly shortsighted way to use FFE, given conquest's main guns.

[Revamp]

Proxied a Conquest with Old witch, had a lot of fun with the CB actually. I made a whole list with the purpose of dropping horrible templates of doom. first turn i walked him forward and laid all four out, side by side, in a line. that's 16 inches of "you walk through here your army might suffer." Behind that i had 2 min units of WGRC that dropped templates at the end of their range. Behind that was murder of crows. second turn i dropped all of that on the most clustered area of the enemy lines and used her feat. Killed most of the opponents army. I was against a terminus bane thrall oblivion and the sheer number of rolls against the enemy did the job. Add the old witch feat and you've got some magic there. Terminus went down to 3 punches from the conquest.

[Ganso]

Also not quite sure, but what happens if they enter 2 of them during their movement?

If one model passes over 2 templates laid down by Creeping Barrage it will only suffer 1 POW 6 blast damage roll. Due to the wording on Creeping Barrage the Infernals have ruled it so.

This was also the reason why I have completely down graded Creeping Barrage as a Plan B and instead will opt to take my 4 shots a turn and hope for a favorable deviation (at least I can still boost in this situation).

[Tico Love]

If one model passes over 2 templates laid down by Creeping Barrage it will only suffer 1 POW 6 blast damage roll. Due to the wording on Creeping Barrage the Infernals have ruled it so.

This was also the reason why I have completely down graded Creeping Barrage as a Plan B and instead will opt to take my 4 shots a turn and hope for a favorable deviation (at least I can still boost in this situation).

Ganso, I thought that was only the case if the templates are overlapping. What if they are spaced out? Do they still only take ONE damage roll? Could you link to that Infernal ruling, Please? Thanks!

[Hoc Est Bellum]

Overlapping Creeping Barrage Templates

A shame, really, but them's the rules.

[Skylifter]

Proxied a Conquest with Old witch, had a lot of fun with the CB actually. I made a whole list with the purpose of dropping horrible templates of doom. first turn i walked him forward and laid all four out, side by side, in a line. that's 16 inches of "you walk through here your army might suffer." Behind that i had 2 min units of WGRC that dropped templates at the end of their range. Behind that was murder of crows. second turn i dropped all of that on the most clustered area of the enemy lines and used her feat. Killed most of the opponents army. I was against a terminus bane thrall oblivion and the sheer number of rolls against the enemy did the job. Add the old witch feat and you've got some magic there. Terminus went down to 3 punches from the conquest.

Yes, that sound like it is quite awesome. Even lists with lots of high ARM models will think twice about walking into that massive area of autohits. Cool.

[Khador247]

If CB was +1 POW it would be a lot better. If it was +2 POW it would be great. Makes me sad to but I think that some of you guys are being way too negative about Conquest.

Ranged attack-wise it still has an awesome main gun with great range, great POW, and a great crit. As Ganso said if you need better blast damage with the secondary batteries you can fire them regulararly and then boost damage. If you're against something with really low ARM then use the barrage. Also note that you can fire it's guns out of melee which is pretty sweet. It's not like the Behemoth in that it can't do both melee AND ranged while engaged but at least you have options. Maybe when we get our Widowmaker warcaster she'll have Virtuoso. ;-)

Melee-wise I think this thing is pretty awesome. The general Colossal rules alone (no disruption, knockdown, stationary, placement, all the time pathfinder etc) make it attractive. Throw in P&S 22 with reach on both of its melee weapons and a sweet, new POW attack (Sweep) and I think it'll be a real monster.

Does anyone have a pic of the rules and damage grid that they could PM to me? I'd love to start proxying Conquest.

[Sinsation]

Looking over CB targets, primarily those arm 13 or lower (requiring an 8 to kill):
Cryx
~Bile Thralls
~Mechanithralls
~Both Satyxis units (once sea witch is dead). Since incorporeal from hag starts at end of activation, unless they start in template you're good.
~Revenant crew

Cygnar
~Gun Mages
~Black 13
~Trenchers
~Rangers (prevent them from getting in position for marking target potentially)
~Stormsmiths

Khador!
~Winterguard of all sorts, except Joe!
~Greylords
~Kossites
~Kayazy
~Widowmakers

Menoth!
~Daughters
~Zealots
~TFG
~Idrians
~Deliverers

Retribution
~Halberdiers
~Rifle Team
~Riflemen
~Mage Hunter Strike Force
~Stormfall Archers

Mercs!
~Press Gangers
~Sea Dogs
~Steelhead Halberdiers and Riflemen
~Risen
~Nyss Hunters
~Devil Dogs
~Croe's Cutthroats

Circle
~Druids
~Reeves
~Mannikins
~Bloodtrackers and Bloodweavers
~Wolves of Orboros

Legion
~Lesser Warbeasts
~Archers
~Striders
~Scather
~Grotesques
~Hex Hunters

Skorne
~Bloodrunners
~Nihilators
~Swordsmen
~All sorts of Venators

Trollbloods. Harder to do since Krielstone
~Pygs
~Scouts (not sure)

Minions
~Nothing really. Going to be rougher. Brigands and Bog Trogs will need 9s, and those are low end armor.

[OrsusSmash]

If CB was +1 POW it would be a lot better. If it was +2 POW it would be great. Makes me sad to but I think that some of you guys are being way too negative about Conquest.

Ranged attack-wise it still has an awesome main gun with great range, great POW, and a great crit. As Ganso said if you need better blast damage with the secondary batteries you can fire them regulararly and then boost damage. If you're against something with really low ARM then use the barrage. Also note that you can fire it's guns out of melee which is pretty sweet. It's not like the Behemoth in that it can't do both melee AND ranged while engaged but at least you have options. Maybe when we get our Widowmaker warcaster she'll have Virtuoso. ;-)

Melee-wise I think this thing is pretty awesome. The general Colossal rules alone (no disruption, knockdown, stationary, placement, all the time pathfinder etc) make it attractive. Throw in P&S 22 with reach on both of its melee weapons and a sweet, new POW attack (Sweep) and I think it'll be a real monster.

Does anyone have a pic of the rules and damage grid that they could PM to me? I'd love to start proxying Conquest.

Seconded.

I know the Stormwall's Covering Fire templates have everyone green with envy, but honestly the Conquest has really nice secondary guns. Either a ton of board coverage with low auto-damage templates, or up to four shots with AOEs. When you compare that to all of the other colossals, their very solid guns; I think the only colossals that have better secondary weapons are Stormwall and Galleon (and even Galleon's secondary guns suffer from being random, and not ultra impressive without boosts like Hot Shot.)

[Octavius_Maximus]

Also, the secondary guns are actually quite nasty in certain situations.

Lets think of this:

pSorscha Freezes enemy army. Conquest walks up and plugs the caster with 4 Pow 12s and a Pow 15...Thats going to kill many casters.

[OrsusSmash]

Also, the secondary guns are actually quite nasty in certain situations.

Lets think of this:

pSorscha Freezes enemy army. Conquest walks up and plugs the caster with 4 Pow 12s and a Pow 15...Thats going to kill many casters.

Yep! Hell, in a pinch you can catch the 'caster in a Tempest, and then rain Conquest shots upon them.

Also: aiming bumps the Secondary Batterys up to RAT 6 effectively, which isn't amazing, but good enough to tag a lot of infantry.

One of the better ways to think of the Linked Guns (someone else said this somewhere, maybe in another forum) is effectively as a re-roll. Shoot at something, maybe kill it with the blast damage, and shoot at it again. Possibly handy against Stealth solos, where you want to try and catch them in boosted blast damage, or direct shots when you can aim and might not finish the target off with one shot.

[Revamp]

Another thing to keep in mind:

Based on the list Sinsation posted, i see something useful:

The models killed by CB tend to be the annoying tarpits. I don't know about you, but getting rid of the enemies tarpit without engaging it sounds like a hell of a thing to me. No need to tie up your WGDS or Kayzay with an alpha strike by tarpits, you can just eat them with the CB first turn before the armies meet. Hell, set the CB's out in a horizontal line and they'll pretty much have to stay behind it or risk loosing every man they run through it. 16 inches of death is nothing to scoff at.

[Steamwitch]

This... seems like a terribly shortsighted way to use FFE, given conquest's main guns.

well, no duh? The point of the thread is to try and make the C.B. more attarctive. But if you wanna go the route most threads In khador forums about jacks devolve into "this is better" thats fine. but lets say for a momment ffe did infact work that way. A unit of arm 14+ doodz comes up spread too far for the main gun to hit and they are jumpy so a sweep is moot? Yea, im sure you would put it on the cb. Not all the time mind you. But my point is valid in the sense that im trying hard to like konquest and his silly guns. And at this point i will take anything! The "but this is better" arguement is kinda pointless with how the cb is already. Got any ideas on how to improve them or just point out something better?

[Binz]

Creeping Barrage= Yet another thing your opponent has to worry about. And that is always a good thing.

I mean, Put the templates between your lines and Bane Thralls. Now they have to worry about them. So chances are it wont kill them, yes. But its also pretty damn annoying when it does, and with 4 of them, you could easily hit every bane thrall. (10's required)

What will happen though, is that chances are good at least 6 or so Bane Thralls make it, and trash your collosal. Not a great trade

[StefDa]

What about the Vlads' Hand of Fate? Would that work?

[Revamp]

What about the Vlads' Hand of Fate? Would that work?

Actually, that might work. It adds a dice to all attack and damage rolls on both turns and you drop the lowest... so at the very least it'd help the math machine. other than that though, nothing i can see that can directly help increase the damage.

[Tico Love]

Actually, that might work. It adds a dice to all attack and damage rolls on both turns and you drop the lowest... so at the very least it'd help the math machine. other than that though, nothing i can see that can directly help increase the damage.

Naww, Revamp. I still don't think that will work. Hand of Fate specifies that the boost is to the target model/unit's attack and damage rolls. On the turn that an enemy is advancing over a Creeping Barrage template, the damage roll is not originating from the Konquest but from the template itself.

At least that is how I would interpret it.

[RevolverAdamska]

Naww, Revamp. I still don't think that will work. Hand of Fate specifies that the boost is to the target model/unit's attack and damage rolls. On the turn that an enemy is advancing over a Creeping Barrage template, the damage roll is not originating from the Konquest but from the template itself.

At least that is how I would interpret it.

Agree, seems our CB stand at pow6 , no way to get bonus for damage