Buff to Creeping Barrage?

[Lanz]

I think people are depending too much on creeping barrage. It's not a defensive model like the Stormwall. The stormwall can't shoot its covering fire templates at things. The creeping barrage effect is not very powerful, but it's also a free extra from attacking. You aren't trading any hits for it, and you can still boost it where needed. That aside, the Conquest still has its main gun, which is a big deal since it's a Superstructure weapon. That means it can aim and still easily fire on both arcs, so even against heavy infantry it has tools, just the tools are direct attacks, not indirect table control like the Stormwall.

All things considered, infantry can just walk around the stormwall's templates anyways, they don't have to go through them. At least with the Conquest it's the khador player controlling where the damage rolls are going.

[Havock]

Make the templates rough terrain.

Oh, wait...

[John of Arc]

Wait, is this true? How are people not wetting their pants over it? Have you seen the rules yourself Lanz, or is this going off of spoiler text? Because free CB's for attacking sound super sweet.

[dkvoe]

Wait, is this true? How are people not wetting their pants over it? Have you seen the rules yourself Lanz, or is this going off of spoiler text? Because free CB's for attacking sound super sweet.

No CB is "instead of making attacks"

[ringkichard]

Proxied a Conquest with Old witch, had a lot of fun with the CB actually. I made a whole list with the purpose of dropping horrible templates of doom. first turn i walked him forward and laid all four out, side by side, in a line. that's 16 inches of "you walk through here your army might suffer." Behind that i had 2 min units of WGRC that dropped templates at the end of their range. Behind that was murder of crows. second turn i dropped all of that on the most clustered area of the enemy lines and used her feat. Killed most of the opponents army. I was against a terminus bane thrall oblivion and the sheer number of rolls against the enemy did the job. Add the old witch feat and you've got some magic there. Terminus went down to 3 punches from the conquest.

Hah! What do you think your lists weaknesses would have been, aside from heavy armor?

[tjhairball]

Do you know what would make Creeping Barrage awesome?

If the guns used tracer rounds and the templates provided illumination like the Spriggan's flares.

That would make it awesome.

[Revamp]

Hah! What do you think your lists weaknesses would have been, aside from heavy armor?

My biggest problem? In that list it was incorporeal... see, except for the murder of crows, they weren't magical based attacks. So if he had had the revnenants, he probably would have been a huger pain in the butt. As it was he had two pistol wraiths, and they were a pain in the ***. More things with that would have been a huge problem probably. Next time i do it i'll bring aliana and holt. Other than that, i don't really know.

[Lanz]

Wait, is this true? How are people not wetting their pants over it? Have you seen the rules yourself Lanz, or is this going off of spoiler text? Because free CB's for attacking sound super sweet.

Perhaps I'm wrong, I don't have Colossals handy right now, but I recalled Creeping Barrage just being a passive effect on the guns, like Scathers on a Ravagore.

[nerdkingdan]

I realize I am still a newbie scrub... but frankly.... I can NOT WAIT to field this monstrosity! I want it to go punch the Cygnar one in the FACE!!! Take that you southern blue wussies!!!

[Frege]

I realize I am still a newbie scrub... but frankly.... I can NOT WAIT to field this monstrosity! I want it to go punch the Cygnar one in the FACE!!! Take that you southern blue wussies!!!

More power to you for this mindset.

[OrsusSmash]

Perhaps I'm wrong, I don't have Colossals handy right now, but I recalled Creeping Barrage just being a passive effect on the guns, like Scathers on a Ravagore.

Negative. It's an either/or thing, just like Covering Fire.

However, I think your point still stands: Covering Fire is a useful option to have, because you can cover a delicious amount of the table. If your opponent is bringing lots of infantry - especially low ARM infantry - you can blockade off quite a bit of the table with auto damage templates. Even if they're low POW rolls, it's still free damage rolls your opponent has to eat if they want to move into that area.

And with Covering Fire in the pocket, you can afford to stack your list a little bit more to handle the infantry that Covering Fire won't protect you against (which Khador is pretty well equipped to do.)

I realize I am still a newbie scrub... but frankly.... I can NOT WAIT to field this monstrosity! I want it to go punch the Cygnar one in the FACE!!! Take that you southern blue wussies!!!

This is the right way to feel.

[Kurb]

Creeping Barrage is a bonus, not a crutch. That's what I think people are having such a hard time putting their heads around.

Its a huge section of the table that can give you free kills. Screw the odds. Everytime you get to roll dice to kill something outside of your turn in a bonus. Hell with WGRC, Old Witch, and Conquest you could cover like half the board! (sarcasm).

[The Buoyancy of Water]

Hell with WGRC, Old Witch, and Conquest you could cover like half the board! (sarcasm).

Why stop there, I ask?! Get two gun carriages in there too

[Revamp]

Creeping Barrage is a bonus, not a crutch. That's what I think people are having such a hard time putting their heads around.

Its a huge section of the table that can give you free kills. Screw the odds. Everytime you get to roll dice to kill something outside of your turn in a bonus. Hell with WGRC, Old Witch, and Conquest you could cover like half the board! (sarcasm).

Already did that. it was awesome.

[Aylw]

After reading the exact rules of the secondary batteries, the creeping barrage 'doesn't stack' ruling seems weird. By that logic, 2 conquests laying down 2 sets of 2 sets of creeping barrages only causes 1 damage role?

On top of that, if we use the same definition of 'the aoes' for the entire set of rules, if 2 conquests lay down creeping barrage, ALL templates need to be within 1" of each other?

Considering this is a rather large and weird nerf on pow 6s, I have a hard time believing this was the intended effect.

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely getting 1, but the additional reduced utility has tipped the scales in not getting two.

[PG_Pyrodude32]

Hah! What do you think your lists weaknesses would have been, aside from heavy armor?

Rahn - but then again I only know of one Khador list that gives that elf a hard time... I am most definitely not a Rahn fan

[portedGoblin]

What would happen in these cases?

[Ganso]

All of those cases would just net you one damage roll, per the ruling

[Kurb]

So they made a weak ability weaker ?

Good stuff.


Meanwhile models hit by a lightning pod attack from Stormwall are now bashed to bits with a hammer by the player that fielded the Stormwall

[PG_Duckboy]

Really sad on that wording. Guess I will just be lobbing shots from now on.

[mcdermott]

I'm really surprised that in a forum that routinely recommends Kayazy as the infantry to choose creeping barrage doesn't get more respect.

[Kurb]

I'm really surprised that in a forum that routinely recommends Kayazy as the infantry to chose creeping barrage doesn't get more respect.

I like it fine, its just a natural internetnerdrage reflex

[wiking]

It is not the creeping barrage that is the question of damage rather it is the mindset it imposes on your opponent and the repositioning it enforces upon their mindset forcing your opponent to think of threat range is the immediate response not the actual damage.You are forcing the idea of the creeping barrage onto every aspect of how they play. I know I would rethink what units I might lose facing it.

[Octavius_Maximus]

I still think that the secondary guns are mainly there for assassination.

I mean seriously, knockdown/Stationary an enemy Caster then hit them with 4 nearly autohitting Pow 12's at 15" range.

That would kill almost any caster/lock.

[cjkeys]

I realize I am still a newbie scrub... but frankly.... I can NOT WAIT to field this monstrosity! I want it to go punch the Cygnar one in the FACE!!! Take that you southern blue wussies!!!

I have to agree. regardless of the guns, Im a big fan of Karchev and I can just see using Unearthly Rage to allow Conquest to just thresher his way up the field while blocking LoS to Karchev behind him with some infantry and Jack support.

[Canfu]

I found this thread when I was searching for a something on "comparing colossals." See, I'm a Cygnar player, and when I picked up the Colossals book last week and started looking at them, I was having a hard time understanding why everyone felt the Stormwall was so obviously the best Colossal- especially when comparing it to the Conquest. I thought that the secondary battery was at least equal to the Metal Storms on Stormwall- weaker, yes, but all that AoE is crazy. And seriously, POW 22 fists? If that doesn't wreck a Stormwall in one round (5 attacks doing average of 35 dmg with Arcane Shield, 50 without) I'd be shocked.

I was convinced that the only stand-outs when comparing the two were the Lightning Pods (which are pretty awesome, I'll admit) and +1 SPD (if I recall correctly). They looked to be pretty evenly matched, and the Conquest looks like it will be scary to face. It's... reassuring... to read all the trash talking about what I took to be a pretty scary set of secondary guns. Still not looking forward to fielding my gun mages against them!

[Soulblighter]

Still not really protecting you from anything thats really deadly like Bane Thralls though.

Sure it does. POW8 kills bane thralls like 40% of the time. pOW8 is good. POW6 is terrible though.

[OldOneEye]

Look at it this way: those Creeping Barrage templates are going to be money against the Stormsmiths that Cygnar players will absolutely be fielding with their Stormwall.

[wargolem]

Meh been looking at it from a *** were they thinking aspect and it seems that the design team thought "Hey! If they get a crit dev on the main gun they can fire 4 secondary shots at stuff that is knocked down. Well at least 2 things that are knocked down and only if the first shot doesn't kill the target and if it didn't kill it the first time the second shot probably wont kill it either". LoL. Sad but probably true.

I think what would have been awesome both fluff wise and rules wise would have been to give it the Main gun as is and Decimator's ROF 2 dozer for the nipple guns. That way we would not have gotten twin linked, would have had to spend a focus to buy more than the first shot with secondary guns and covering fire would have been POW 8 which we all would not have liked but could have lived with. Still laughable that the armor on it is less than one of our character jacks but hey I can justify it from the fluff by saying hey they rushed it in production where I CANNOT say that they decided to put widowmaker marksman's rifle on the nipple guns any which way I try.

[NChomsky3d]

Ragman extending his -2 ARM to a unit that going to get engaged. They have to be engaging the friendly unit before they hit the template though. Very tricky, but you'd surprise a few people I'm sure.

This was actually my thought. Put the templates on a unit of IF Pikemen with Ragman nearby, with the edge about 1" in front of them, and unless the enemy has reach they'll be hitting the template while engaged, so -2 to their ARM (essentially making it POW8).

As someone said above, you can also hit a unit with A&H for the same effect, but it's more limited.

[mcpolle]

Shame we never hear from the guys that play tested this thing, on what happened, or what they were smoking at the time, because they must have been smoking some much better stuff when they made Galleon, and Stormwall.

Cannot personally see that Konquest brings anything at all to Khador, that it does not already have, and I would much rather have a Behemoth and any other jack, but thats just me.

And on the point of the Stormwall, its good and all, but those bloody pods are just sick, they can contest zones, flags, whats with that, and they can snipe low arm characters, not exactly what I would call balanced.


Would be interesting to see how many players make a move over to the Swans, after Stormwall has come out, its a great model, and works really really well.

Polle

[Mindless]

I might just be stupid or not paying attention but...

Placing the Creeping Barrages like this...



Lets assume that I am Badguy and want to smash Conquest in the face, wouldn't I suffer one POW 6 damage roll for each AoE that I passed into? Step into the first one - suffer damage - step into the second one - suffer damage, etc...

If that's the case, I don't really see the problem. Sure, it's potential to do massive damage is low but you can deny a large area of the table and on solid rolls you'll be killing at least a few ARM 15 guys with those Creeping Barrages. If you roll two 6's you have a 3" AoE that does 18 damage, that's pretty good I think. You could even manage to kill a multi-wound solo with that if they attempted to pass through, and that's just on the first Creeping Barrage AoE.

I'm not saying you're gonna deny a warjack charging into your face but it should at least dissuade regular DEF 13 units from walking into it.

[The Buoyancy of Water]

Quick note: the templates have to be placed completely within the field of fire, so that set up is illegal anyway Unless you use multiple conquests of course!!

Cheers,
Dave

[Mindless]

Quick note: the templates have to be placed completely within the field of fire, so that set up is illegal anyway Unless you use multiple conquests of course!!

Cheers,
Dave

Well obviously, but lets say I put them out like a square. Left cannon shoots out two Creeping Barrages, one in front of the other and the right cannon does the same.

Like this. (C) is conquest, X's are AoE's.


X.......X

X.......X

...(C)

Like that you would deny the largest area and again, you'd dissuade quite a few smaller units from charging in with the risk of suffering two 6+2d6 attacks.

[Marth]

On the other note, it won't work because it has been - due to CB's unique wording - clarified that you only suffer one POW 6 roll, no matter how many templates you grace with your presence.

[Mindless]

On the other note, it won't work because it has been - due to CB's unique wording - clarified that you only suffer one POW 6 roll, no matter how many templates you grace with your presence.

Now that on the other hand is bullsh*t.

Meh, guess you'll just have to drop them everywhere and hope the other player get scared by mean looking mini-pizzas on the table...

[sliganian]

Shame we never hear from the guys that play tested this thing, on what happened, or what they were smoking at the time, because they must have been smoking some much better stuff when they made Galleon, and Stormwall.
Polle

Sorry, I just have to tangent nerdrage on this comment.

CAVEAT: I know NOTHING about how PP playtests.

However, I was a Playtester for GW for over 5 years (we were called the 'TechPriests'). A playtester may point any number of flaws to the Design Team. It is up to the DESIGN TEAM to do something about what was pointed out ... or not.

I never, ever understand why folks rag on playtesters when certain models seem either OP or sub-par.