Farrows Question

[Coldblooded3k]

Hey there I've been looking at the War pigs for a little while now but no one locally plays them that I know of, just a couple Gatormens.

So Basically I got two questions.
1: How competitive are they? -Not looking for face stompers but I noticed they only got 2 different warlocks on the site and wondered how limited they are.
2: What is the play style they run? -Are they shooty? Bashy? Mixed?

Thanks peoplez

[FluffyZealot]

They have 3 Warlocks:
-Lord Carver
-Dr Arkadius
-Sturm and Drang

1. Semi-competitive. Don't expect to get a free ride as if you were playing a main faction. However, they're not a walkover either. I consider playing minions as a kind of "Warmahordes hard mode" :P
2. The style changes with the caster. Dr Ark is VERY beast oriented, Carver is a bit more infantry. S&D is a mix of both. Then if you throw in the tier lists, it all can change again.

Are farrow beasts dangerous? Oh yes
In theory, a single warhog can kill a colossal. So can a unit of Slaughterhousers. On one turn.

Bottom line, is that farrow don't have as many releases as gators at the moment, so we're a little limited in what we can take, but what we have fills most holes. There are still bad matchups, but we can't avoid them (for now).

[Benejeseret]

Despite their small model options their play-style can be varied quite a bit. The only thing with shooty lists is that they can lack range over main faction-shootyness.

With Brigands spam they are very shooty and can either play an attrition/denial game (hog wild back or over) or aggressively (hog wild to melee attack as well).
With SH spam they are a face-smasher and resource denial army (RFP).
Bonegrinders and razorbacks are not spammed exactly and BG at least are primarily used for utility.
But even then Carver should consider spamming BGs just to get 0.5 point per model weapon masters for a turn who are otherwise snipers/support

With Warhog spam they are face-smashers, the paragons of face-smashers.
With Roadhogs they are burninators and speed freaks
With Gunboars they are really jacks of all trades, doing everything possible, with limited success

The big choice is really Tier vs Pact.
Tiers tend to get you the classic mix of boons
The Pact lets you troop spam very, very well with FA+1 and AD

Overall I would classify them as a Denial/Mixed the way I play them.
They are fantastic at scenario wins. I have won games without really killing enemy models.

[Negatorxx]

How are the good at scenario wins since they lack tricks/mobility control outside of brine and the road hog? Simply area denial via lots of threats?

[Benejeseret]

That is the difference between Tiers and Pacts.

Thronfall Pact is extremely fast when ALL units get to AD. So partly yes, they are great at pure area denial.

lack tricks/mobility

The following are mobility tricks (other than R&B) to either let your models move in extra or new ways and to control the board
- Massacre grants 1" after charge-kill
- Lightning Strike grants a full activation worth of movement
- Full boar for extra distance
- Carver's feat grants 1" per kill. This adds with Massacre and so anything with multiple attacks and/or Fury can move, and move, and move...
- Mobility
- Rift creates difficult terrain to slow enemy
- Arkadius's feat can grant double activations/charges so beasts really move about
- Mind Control. Rarely used but, Arkadius can move multiple enemy models their full movement away
- Telekenesis (nuff said)
- Goad for more movement
- Throws (both gunboars, roadhogs, and S&D)
- Hog Wild
- Dig In onto objectives (after getting their early with Thornfall AD), and Tough, and possibly Deflection
- Multiple ways to get Pathfinder
- Quagmire!!
- Vision could be used to grant 2 models pseudo-Parry, letting them move where they need to be; or sit on an objective with some immunity
- Watcher. With S&D near an objective they eat fully boosted attack (or beast movement shenanigans) if they even approach
- Counterblast: another option for camping and denying objectives. It allows 2 casters to possibly toss or mind control approaching models right back out of the objective (blocking others' approach)

[Del Fuego]

Edit: Beaten to it.

[doom_reaver]

They're certainly able to win tournaments.
A mate of mine recently won Qcon in Belfast using Lord Carver BMMD. Won 4 in a row vs some very nasty lists. (much nastier than you'd usually see on the Irish tourney scene).

[Coldblooded3k]

Sorry when I mentioned 2 Warlocks I guess I was only thinking of the snout'd ones. so 3 obviously. They have a lot of cool looking infantry, so Carver might be the way to start yes? Wish they had a starter set lol

[Rotfell]

Carver is a very good start, since he's a warlock which is easy to play and have a lot of potential, so you can even get better when you've polished your skills. At the moment the lack of choices is the only problem.

But a warning: If you play Carver, you're going to be so spoiled, he was my first warlock and I had a very hard time to realize, that warbeasts are not near as fast and tough as I thought.

[Fenrisulfr]

But a warning: If you play Carver, you're going to be so spoiled, he was my first warlock and I had a very hard time to realize, that warbeasts are not near as fast and tough as I thought.

oh man this, I've been trying to swich over to ark and S&D to broaden my caster list and its been shocking learning that the war hogs aren't the pinnacles of destruction i thought they were.

i have to agree with Rotfell on the top part as well, Carver starts off brutal and once you get a hang of him along with his models he just becomes more brutal.

And yes, brutal is the right word for him.

[Sygerrik]

If Lord Carver were in any other faction, particularly Skorne, he'd be considered among the most broken, powerful casters in the game. Being in Thornfall is all that holds him back.

[Benejeseret]

If Lord Carver were in any other faction, particularly Skorne, he'd be considered among the most broken, powerful casters in the game. Being in Thornfall is all that holds him back.

Actually, since all his abilities are farrow only he would actually be completely useless anywhere else.

Sorry, but I have to mention again (even if the farrow-only is re-written) that this is such a faulty argument. Maybe it was even you I disagreed with elsewhere as well. Nearly any caster if shifted into an entirely new faction that was not balanced and designed around them would be extremely OP and broken. It's the entire point of how they designed and limited the system.

And really, what makes Carver so crazy compared to Xerxis within Skorne? Both Feats are very similar, both can grant ARM buffs, both can increase movement (Rush/Press Forward), both can grant pathfinder, both grant troop buffs to all nearby, both have a spell to create difficult terrain, both can get Overtake. The only aspect Xerxis seems to be missing is quagmire for a DEF debuff and lockdown, but in place he gets Martial Discipline and another attack, and combo smite.

Take Arkadius. In Trollbloods, if a warbeast doesn't die in a single turn it will likely heal 1d4+1(ark)+1d3(regen)+maybe 1d3(snacking)+comfort food. The Impaler would love yet another Str buff, getting it up to a P+S 18 farstrikes that slams things back at Str14 collateral hits. Arky could hang back like he needs to while still being useful and keeping enemies away while healing at a unbelievable rate and having the heavies flying up the field. Or, give him a faction with any access to Long Leash. Now he can actually stay back and protected while beasts are everywhere.

Carver is not unique in the weird theory world of "well if I gave him everything I think he ever needed for my particulat play style they would be OP."

/rant

Back to Coldblooded3k. I have won some local tourneys with Carver using Thornfall. But, this basically amounted to each time I brought Carver to a new gaming group I swept and took first. I suspect long term that the other armies can adapt and start to fight back, where at this point I cannot change it up as well.

Think of Thornfall as an alternative theme list tier for each caster - so in theory there are 6 basic ways to put Pact/Tiers together just from a Caster/meta-army bonus point of view. This makes them slightly more versatile then they first seem.