Just out of curiosity, how many people complaining about the stormwall have actually played it? I am up to ~30 games with and against all the colossals and I would say the Judicator and Galleon are straight up better, and the Kraken gives such a boost to its factions ranged game that it is almost as good.
Only the Conquest and Hype is straight up worse.
I think the issue is that Colossals have changed the game and most people do not handle change well. I think the change was done very well as the only drawback is that people cannot take their same old tired lists and win as easily as before. Sounds great.
The fact that the Stormwall is great doesn't mean anything in the real world as each faction always has something better then another faction. Personally I love it all as I play Cygnar, Mercs and Trollbloods. Galleon and Bart is a no brainer as is THE STACHE! Fail Safe + Spiny Growth + Auto passing meatshields and Jackhammer? Yes please.
Thats just it. Some factions dont have ways around it at all. Circle of Orboros for example will have a heck of a time dealing with two ARM24 Colossals. Thats why it will be errata'd.Meh. I still don't see it as being such a big deal. There are ways around it (either general ways around high ARM, or ways to remove/ignore upkeeps/animi).
Really? If there are two Colossals out there it means you tarpit the big guys and kill the Caster. It doesn't come down to Arm value or health boxes. Simply put, Colossals do NOT break this game nor does Spiny growth on those who can get Wrongeye and Snapjaw plus a Bull Snapper at 12 points - 18+18+12 = 48pts, minus Warjack points means you have a couple support solos or a min unit!
Nothing is broken anymore than what it was before. We all have played against MASS Bane Thrall plus eGaspy and felt helpless and at the same time we have found ways to beat it.
Edit: Also, doesn't Circle have access to Thrullgs to remove buffs? Don't you have spells like Curse of Shadows to debuff ARM?
For that matter, the best way to deal with a pair of high ARM Colossals is probably to avoid them (while keeping them busy with something) and go for a sneaky assassination. In my experience that's something Circle excels at. I'm really not seeing why this is difficult for Circle to deal with.
#1 reason spiny growth with Galleon won't be erratad: You're paying 31 points for it (Galleon + Wrongeye and Snapjaw + Bull snapper).
Huh. Six months away from Cygnar and I've forgotten how to win... until Kara Sloan goes all 'bullet to the head' several games in a row. It's good to be back.
I think Cygnar have been good, they just have less "flavor" than most factions so they get less draw in my opinion. They are just the new hotness because thier Colossal is a tad OP and can get some auto-wins until people figure out how to beat it. You MAY have to change your competitive lists up a bit... I for one kind of expected this when they mentioned Colossals were coming. If you expected them to be easy to kill, you just didnt give it much thought. That being said Stormwall DOES do more and synergize better in faction than any of the other colossals. Thats not the Cygnar players fault though....
I think that Cygnar needed a little bit of a boost.
My brother plays Cygnar and he is excited for the Storm Wall but one thing he is a little concerned about, is that at this point he feels it to be almost an auto include 50 points and above just because of how good it is, and how much Cygnar needed a model like this.
It is not a real bad thing he just feels that it takes some of the variety out of his lists. For him though it is still too early to tell if this is actually the case.
Common Sense is a Myth.
I guess I need to explain what I mean when I say "flavor"... By that I mean, an army that draws a lot of attention and looks fun to play. In my meta, we have 1 Cygnar player, and he is not regular. Most other people like the look and "feel" and stories of other armies better. The reason this is a factor is because I think when people feel connected to an army, they get good with it. Its not a faction that is played by the top players with any regularity. And I don't think it's a stat issue, as much as it is a "man, this is boring" issue. I do not think this way, I like Cygnar, but I have heard that a lot from people or variations of that.
The Cygnar art to me looks like some sort of Final Fantasyeque / anime style with their fancy swords and blonde spikey hair.
In my meta a lot of new players to WM/H chose Cygnar as their first army almost with out hesitation because its look and feel. Especially when you see all the guns and get the idea you can just sit back and blast away. The reality however is far different and a lot of those players regrettably moved to stronger factions when they were more experienced.
I'm not sure if the Storm Wall was done right or not, but if it is a step forward in bringing Cyngar on par with with the rest of Warmachine I'm all for it.
Common Sense is a Myth.
Last edited by Da-Rock; 07-12-2012 at 10:11 PM.
I think Circle is one of the least fazed by Colossals. We got Pureblood, Weavers, CoS to deal with ARM buffs and just got Ghetorix to back up the feral and Stalker for high ARM cracking. Also blessed Woldwyrd = 2 shots at 4D6 - 9 vs AS Stormwall. (which netted me a good ~20ish dmg in 2 turns, meaning you can freely commit 2 heavies to killing it, because there's no way to survive that.
"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it". - Sir Winston Churchill.
On the record. I'm a Cygnar player who doesn't actually like the Stormwall.
It's a big target that once it goes down your almost always boned.
Don't let it go down then. I had my Stormwall take down Beast-09, a Spriggan, and the Behemoth in 2 turns without taking any damage at all.
"If at first you don't succeed, label it version 1.0."
I'm kinda worried about me as a fairly inexperience Protectorate player going against a COlossal, even though I'm still sitting at 35pts.
Whent he Judicator comes out.... I don't know if I should invest to expand to 50 or just to deal with other colossals because..... that's a lot of money, and I wouldn't know how best to run it considering I don't normally play someone like Reznik. I don't think the Judicator will be very viable on folks like eKrieoss, pSevvy, or Vindictus. Heck, my only 'jack caster is Amon, and he's probably not all that Judicator friendly, so I don't know if it's worth the 100 bucks. But then again, I'm scared of fighting them, since I already stuggle v.s. some Battle Engines sometimes.
The judicator will work fine with many things.
Pseverius is good with anything.
Ekreoss can make it trickier to land a spell on the judicator via arc node.
Vindictis...not sure that I would try it outside 50 and up.
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If you want to deal with colossals as protectorate, take a caster that can strip upkeeps and animus, or take eEiryss. Then just make sure you have 2-3 heavies, which is fairly normal for protectorate anyways.
"If at first you don't succeed, label it version 1.0."
I don't think the Stormwall will make Cygnar the new Cryx. My biggest problem is that the Stormwall is so awesome in the sea of barely average or downright sub-standard options that make up the rest of Cygnar. There are very few lists that aren't improved by its inclusion. Someone in this thread said the new Cygnar cry will be "moar Stormwall!" to echo "moar banez!". I agree, except Cryx has a bevy of excellent options besides banes.
Then again, what's the alternative? The models won't be rebalanced for quite some time, so at least this makes Cygnar a credible threat.
Man this is a long thread.
Very simply put, my opinion on this is very simple;
It depends on what size of game you are playing.
For those playing 50 points, killing a Colossal is certainly well within reasonable bounds. However, go smaller than 50 (e.g. 35) and you start realizing that not only do you need a pretty polarized list to kill a Colossal, but in some cases, you might need a downright anti-Colossal list to kill a Colossal, simply because your typical list doesn't pack nearly as much firepower as you'd want. Generally speaking, two heavies won't be sufficient to kill a buffed Stormwall, unless they rock extremely high damage output (e.g. buffs, and/or things like the Behemoth or Avatar). And at 35 points, you can't quite squeeze more than that unless, again, you go for an extremely polarized list.
Oh, and of course, at 35 points and below, using another Colossal to kill a Colossal is a legit answer, but that doesn't exactly help the situation.
Last edited by Joasht; 08-18-2012 at 10:19 PM.
I'm playing in a 25pt event next weekend, and wondering what the chances of running into a Colossal are. I'm thinking probably pretty high, and of those most likely I'll see a Stormwall. I'm wondering if I should just be unpleasant and run something with a Bronzeback and a Gladiator just in case. They should be able to get the job done between them.
It may also make the Pureblood's stock go up. Blessed is way better than Primal in such a situation, and the spray is great for tagging support models hiding in the back lines. As one of the most pillow-fisted factions overall, Circle will have to play smart to deal with such shenanigans.
By the way, if you're having problems with colossals (or mention engines for that matter), a Lord of the Feast is tailor made to slaughter the ubiquitous support models (and may even tag the occasional caster, since colossals make such tempting hiding spots).
Last edited by VOLK; 08-19-2012 at 08:52 AM.
Bigger IS better.
Universal Battlegrounds - For good looking terrain at an affordable price.
Played several games with the Stormwall, and Against the Stormwall. Not enough to say anything conclusive, but enough to know that a Stormclad hits just as hard, and it isn't difficult to arrange a 1 round against a Stormwall with a typical Hordes list. There are plenty of high armour heavies that shut down its shooting, and with tactics, and support that people are bringing anyway, the Stormwall is just as much a liability to Cygnar as a pain in the arse to their enemies.
In the GTA, Playing Cygnar, Making terrain and stuff, boardgamesminisandmore.blogspot.ca
OMG are we still riding around on this bandwagon!!
Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence.
? Napoleon Bonaparte, Emperor of France
I do believe I saw more conquests than stormwalls at Gencon
What amuses me is all the whinging about Cygnar, and then Menoth steamrolls master with half the spots.