Stormwall against Stealth

[dunce002917]

I just played my 2nd game with Stormwall against Circle.

Basically the Circle player took Kaya and pretty much upkept the spell that gives Stealth to her Battlegroup (Wolves).

So the Stormwall was rendered useless in range and was only able to attack when things got up close and personal.

Obviously I'll have to bring Stormwall with a caster that can mitigate Stealth.

so in this situation all I can do are the following:

Plant the Lightning Pod to a location where I can zap the Stealth units and bring the Stormcallers. (Although practically useless against beasts and jacks - POW 10)

Get Stormwall really close and tie up the Stealth units/beasts/jacks and then use my other jacks to assassinate the enemy warlock/warcaster.


Anyway, it only shows that PP did a good job keeping the arms race balanced... you don't really need a Colossal to win.

[Xnath]

Could also take the B13 and use Lynch's fire beacon.

[agent red]

Trying to quagmire eKaya or her beasts in mele is probably going to end up being a lost cause. Between her feat and the usual circle tricks she's more likely to wreck or cripple the sw and re castle on the other side of the table than anything else.

[Theripontigonus]

As a circle player, I would probably use pods to block charges, and use storm wall to hold down the fort in the control zone, trying to make it so that kaya can't charge with the feat and then regroup to finish him next turn

[watchgeorgerock]

Play Darius and block all the charge lanes with pods and half jacks and dare him to see if he can one round him

[etherya]

Play Kraye and use Mage Sight.

[Sardonic Artery]

Siege has mage sight, too, although let's face it, Siege and Kraye aren't first picks for the 'Wall (or are we just running Stormwall in every list now?).

[tyrel]

Siege has mage sight, too, although let's face it, Siege and Kraye aren't first picks for the 'Wall (or are we just running Stormwall in every list now?).

I think a lot of casters can use a stormwall just depends on your meta and how many points you usually run. My group has just moved to 50 points on a regular basis where I plan on running 2 withdarius plus support units esp B13 for stealth removal. Would I run 2 with every caster no way. On a side note speaking to a khador playing friend who is debating wether to get a conquest or not and he has a laugh when he reads these forums over people not debating wether to take one stormwall but if it's a good idea to take 2.

[Sardonic Artery]

Yeah, I don't want Stormwall to become our banes (start with stormwall, then pick a caster). That said, it did fill a key gap in our style.

I'm still going to give my old man speech: "Back in my day, sonny; we didn't have a Stormwall. We had to use standard Cygnar jacks. Uphill, both ways."

[GunMageinTraining]

"Back in my day, sonny; we didn't have a Stormwall. We had to use standard Cygnar jacks. Uphill, both ways."

Then came the Stormwall, and let me tell you, Progress is awesome. I threw out my back and screwed up my knees fighting with the old Cygnar jacks! That Stormwall thingamajig has the best qualities of the best of our jacks, all in a nice big resilient package.

It really is sad though, I mean Khador still has awesome infantry choices, and solid jacks like Behemoth, but Stormwall tends to outshine Cygnar's choices and still play to our strengths while working well vs our weaknesses. All Cygnar casters can get good use out of one, though obviously some are better choices than others.

[knight_actual]

Kraye isnt one of the good matches with Storm wall? Do tell.

[Bladestorm]

Siege might not be first pick for the 'wall but the 'wall is probably first pick for Siege, as it does most of what his Defender(s) did but brings a bunch of great secondary abilities for just slightly more points and is great at taking advantage of his feat.

[The Glen]

Take a strider as well. Drop the pod next to Kaya and just eleap her to death. But Kraye's ability to make her visible alone if you place the template right and then guided fire into her is usually game.

[Sardonic Artery]

Kraye isnt one of the good matches with Storm wall? Do tell.

Not that Kraye isn't a good match -- there are very few poor caster matches with the 'Wall, like say, Constance(?) -- just the Haleys and Nemos still get dibs.

[dunce002917]

Siege has mage sight, too, although let's face it, Siege and Kraye aren't first picks for the 'Wall (or are we just running Stormwall in every list now?).

Well, I figured since I paid $135 on the Stormwall, I might as well get the most mileage on him at least for the first few months.

Looking back, I could have used Siege's explosivo against the stealth.. yeah, it's an auto miss but the AOE 3" would probably hit the stealth beast with the deviation... Plus, Siege also has mage sight... so that would at least tackle the Stealth issue.

[dunce002917]

Siege might not be first pick for the 'wall but the 'wall is probably first pick for Siege, as it does most of what his Defender(s) did but brings a bunch of great secondary abilities for just slightly more points and is great at taking advantage of his feat.

Plus, on feat turn, I think Siege would appreciate P+S 20 fists against the Behemoth or the Bronzeback... LOL

[dunce002917]

For Kraye, I can use Mage Sight to mitigate stealth, Guided fire to boost the range attack roll and Full Tilt for some movement buffs.

On feat turn, I can cast Full Tilt on the Stormwall and have him charge for free and have the +2" movement on the change and get boosted melee attack rolls.

So in theory (unless a ruling says otherwise), the Stormwall on Full Tilt would be base SPD 10 so he'll charge 13+2" (15") and with a 2" melee range, he'll have a 17" threat range. He'll have the free charge so the max 3 focus on him would just be to buy more attacks. In theory, the Behemoth on an average dmg roll, would survive but would be seriously damaged which would then leave it open for a 2nd wave charge attack from another model.

interesting but again, just theorymachine.

[Canfu]

This thread has veered slightly off topic- but Siege (who has good anti-stealth) seems to be great with the Stormwall. Even better if you could cast Explosivo on him twice, but you take what you can get. I found the biggest weakness of the Siege/Stormwall combo to be ME. Yeah- "this guy,"- the one who got so excited to start pumping Pow 20s into an Avatar and Reckoner (who had failed to 1-round the SW) that he forgot to activate Siege first to feat.

Let this be a reminder- Pow 20s are awesome, but they are even MORE awesome when they are armor-piercing. At least, I assume so- wouldn't know from experience.

[dunce002917]

@canfu

Thanks for the testimonial... now I would never forget to activate Siege 1st to take full advantage of BREACH + p+s 20 fists.. heck even if I used Sweep (pow 17) but I get to Breach a ton of models in 1 arc that is within 2" (I even heard from a ruling - no need for LOS). So if a beast/jack or 2 decides to party on 1 arc and brought in some infantry, they would be swept aside with arm piercing pow 17 sweep attacks.

Yeah, it got a bit off topic but the Kraye and Siege discussion does help against the stealth problem I had last Saturday.

[Dan from Chicago]

Take a strider as well. Drop the pod next to Kaya and just eleap her to death. But Kraye's ability to make her visible alone if you place the template right and then guided fire into her is usually game.

Between 14" of control(with the squire) and 8" of move, you should be able to get something in a template that two boosted pow 15s is going to hurt.

[The Glen]

Yes but its much funnier when she's the only thing in the template and you can ignore her beast wall.

[drugfreeboy]

I don't see why we are focusing on which caster to use when we could just say "bring black 13th...profit". I played against a kaya player with pstryker, stormwall, and b13 in my army recently. I put snipe on the b13 ...used fire beacons to mitigate stealth...and killed or almost killed a beast each turn using stormwall and trencher CRAs.

Just sayin that b13 is as usual...a pretty useful little toolbox.

[dunce002917]

true.. that Black 13th has been and will always be the Cygnar toolbox.

Although it does help to know other things to do due to character restrictions..

[drugfreeboy]

That's true. I wasn't thinking of character restrictions.

There will always be some drawback :P. I suppose stealth would be a pretty lame mechanic if it didn't make us work at all

[dunce002917]

That's true. I wasn't thinking of character restrictions.

There will always be some drawback :P. I suppose stealth would be a pretty lame mechanic if it didn't make us work at all

True. Stealth (though annoying) is one of PP's smartest move. It avoids gun line spam and it leads the players to think of other ways to go and kill their enemy.

That is why I applaud PP for their awesome balancing act. I can take 5 Stormwalls in a 125 pt 3 warcaster unbound game but if I'm playing a stealth Cryx/Circle army, my Stormwall would still have to go in and get his electro fists dirty.

[Hint of Insanity]

Siege has mage sight, too, although let's face it, Siege and Kraye aren't first picks for the 'Wall (or are we just running Stormwall in every list now?).

Although they might not be the absolute best casters to use storm wall, Seige and Kraye can both benefit by using the stormwall. Siege brings rangers already for a rat boost for him and his 2 defenders. For 1 more point, stormwall brings the same firepower as 2 defenders as well as 2 pow 20 fists and covering fire. Stormwall gets a ton of use out of guided fire from kraye.

[Errant_knight]

I ran the Stormwall with Kraye last night and I loved every minute of it. I found he had an option for everything. As has been said Mage Sight for stealth, guided fire for 4-8 boosted shots. If you want to charge with him, pop feat put full tilt on him and he has a 15" charge with reach and charges for free.

[dunce002917]

I ran the Stormwall with Kraye last night and I loved every minute of it. I found he had an option for everything. As has been said Mage Sight for stealth, guided fire for 4-8 boosted shots. If you want to charge with him, pop feat put full tilt on him and he has a 15" charge with reach and charges for free.

hell yeah! nice to see that the Kraye feat Stormwall missile actually worked... LOL

[NecroMerlinoid]

Not that Kraye isn't a good match -- there are very few poor caster matches with the 'Wall, like say, Constance(?) -- just the Haleys and Nemos still get dibs.

I'm currently testing the Stormwall in Blaize's Army of Light list and enjoying the blank out of it. I always want a couple guns, and Blaize always has some spare focus. It works pretty well. Covering fire for MOAR NITES is sweet. The lightning pods block charge lanes pretty well. And there are also Giant cannons! And some fists!

It's bananas.

[Sardonic Artery]

Fine, I give up! Take Stormwall with every caster!

[VOLK]

Siege has mage sight, too, although let's face it, Siege and Kraye aren't first picks for the 'Wall (or are we just running Stormwall in every list now?).

Considering the Stormwall is a blatant attempt by PP to level the playing field (look at Cryx, for another, albeit negative, example), and is one of the few truly outstanding Cygnar non-warcaster models, yeah, we'll be seeing the Stormwall in a lot of lists. In fact, I'd almost guarantee there will be one in at least one list for every tournament-going Cygnar player.

[dunce002917]

Considering the Stormwall is a blatant attempt by PP to level the playing field (look at Cryx, for another, albeit negative, example), and is one of the few truly outstanding Cygnar non-warcaster models, yeah, we'll be seeing the Stormwall in a lot of lists. In fact, I'd almost guarantee there will be one in at least one list for every tournament-going Cygnar player.

Unless PP starts releasing Character Colossals... then the character restrictions would prevent that...but then that's another story.. LOL

[Juggernautie]

Fine, I give up! Take Stormwall with every caster!

I will, except 1 list to deal with Ret. I can picture at 3 list tournaments, I will take EStryker without a Stormwall, EHaley with a Stormwall and Siege with a Stormwall. Outside of tournaments, so my friends don't ball punch me, I'll take the other casters. Darius, Sloan, Nemo3 and the rest of the gang.