Ask Neuty about legion! questions thread.

[Neutralyze]

I decided to start this thread due to the amount of pm's I've been receiving.

If you have any questions that pertain to legions model's, list composition, matchups etc. Please post here and I will answer to the best of my ability. This will also help others as some questions I get asked can help multiple players.

[Refyougee]

What do you feel is Legion's toughest matchup, warnoun wise?

[Snarkie]

What are some of Legion's best warlock pairs for typical SR tournaments (50 point, 2-list, divide and conquer)?

Does this change at all when moving to the 35 point SR tournament level (e.g., pThag's feat makes him more worthwhile since it brings back more relative points at 35)?

Thanks Neut! I'm sure this thread will be a goldmine for aspiring Legion players.

[Serberk]

Ok since you are one of the best legion players let's start with some questions:
Will the naga be worth its points? with wich caster? wich models will it replace in the case you include it in a list?
How much of your lists (point wise) are meta dependant?
What you think our faction objectively lacks? Are there ways to avoid it to be exploited?
With wich caster you have had the fastest learning curve and with wich the longest?

[Neutralyze]

What do you feel is Legion's toughest matchup, warnoun wise?

I have always felt I played an uphill battle against a good Pkreoos player. Knockdown feat migrates our defenses, purification mitigates our defense buffs or our 1 sheild guard model.

next I would say that elylyth is a bad matchup for us if we don't have an answer to it.

Elylth helps against gun lines but if we don't have her I feel that heavy funkiness can lay waste to us rather fast.

Ekruger in scenario play is extremely rough against legion. Reduces shooting range, can increase threat ranges with TK and has a feat that prevents us from charging on the following turn.

[Neutralyze]

What are some of Legion's best warlock pairs for typical SR tournaments (50 point, 2-list, divide and conquer)?

Does this change at all when moving to the 35 point SR tournament level (e.g., pThag's feat makes him more worthwhile since it brings back more relative points at 35)?

Thanks Neut! I'm sure this thread will be a goldmine for aspiring Legion players.

Frst and foremost, play warlocks you feel most Comfortable with. Just because x and y warlock cover matchup bases doesn't mean you are good with said warlocks. On that note I'll go over some of pairings

Evayl & pthags - evayl vs most WM and legion, pthags vs legion or WM list that can't crack higher armor.

Pvayl & elylyth - elylyth is a nightmare for a lot of gun lines, destruction scenario and others. If you go against armies that can't close fast on you or take the rounds of shooting thn they are done. Works Ben better on scenarios where you can toe into a zone to contest. Middle control zones make elylyth suffer. Pvayl is there for mostly anything. She can crack armor, increase threat ranges and has a feat to keep her army safe. She also has rampager which is rough vs. hordes

Saeryn & Pvayl - saeryn covers some bad matchups Pvayl has vs Cryx and control lists in general. Saeryn can't handle gunlines too well though.

In three list environment I am currently running

Evayl & pthags, bethayne due to no crutch 2012. I like ethane against some Cryx matchups and single wound infantry matchups. Despoiler on belphagor is a ball busting animus that can prevent infantry spam from getting to key pieces.

[Neutralyze]

Ok since you are one of the best legion players let's start with some questions:
Will the naga be worth its points? with wich caster? wich models will it replace in the case you include it in a list?
How much of your lists (point wise) are meta dependant?
What you think our faction objectively lacks? Are there ways to avoid it to be exploited?
With wich caster you have had the fastest learning curve and with wich the longest?

Hands down, the naga will be worth it's points with elylyth and maybe Abby. I feel that unless you highly value wraithbane in your meta that he doesn't really pull his PTs in many other lists. Sure a magical ranged shot that's untyped damage is good. It sucks that it comes in a light war beast platform that will bring down he amount of heavy hitter in our list.

I stopped building for my meta and began building for the convention meta and what I was seein the most.

I feel our faction lacks a cheaper heavy option. 7-8 pt range. The Scythean is role specific better at 9. I would like. 7 pt version of it. I also want an AD unit that can melee well.

Fastest learning curve was elylyth. Slowest was evayl.

[Murkhadh]

I have always felt I played an uphill battle against a good Pkreoos player. Knockdown feat migrates our defenses, purification mitigates our defense buffs or our 1 sheild guard model.

next I would say that elylyth is a bad matchup for us if we don't have an answer to it.

Elylth helps against gun lines but if we don't have her I feel that heavy funkiness can lay waste to us rather fast.

Ekruger in scenario play is extremely rough against legion. Reduces shooting range, can increase threat ranges with TK and has a feat that prevents us from charging on the following turn.

So which casters have the best shot against these 3?

[bldyhll666]

hey neut, been running kallus alot lately but have a collossal event coming up. couple questions:

who do you think wil work best against the collossals?

and what kind of list composition would you run?

thanks in advance for the help

[Neutralyze]

So which casters have the best shot against these 3?

Against elylyth and legion in general I reach for evayl. Gets rid I all the animi and upeekps, can stay very fr back and threatens with the feat.

Ekrueger I would use pthags as he ha trouble getting through 3 heavies with higher armor. Actually, pthags has been my circle matchup for awhile.

[Neutralyze]

hey neut, been running kallus alot lately but have a collossal event coming up. couple questions:

who do you think wil work best against the collossals?

and what kind of list composition would you run?

thanks in advance for the help

Kallus can do just fine against them. Ignited swordsman or a Scythean will put a number onto them. Is the event 35 or 50pts?

[Marzuki]

What do you think are eVayl's greatest strengths and weaknesses?

[Neutralyze]

What do you think are eVayl's greatest strengths and weaknesses?

Meet biggest strength is upkeep denial and movement shenanigans. Her weaknesses can be higher armor an I feel trolls can be an issues against her on occasion. Control range magi mitigation. Lamentation, bestial an similar abilities

[bldyhll666]

Kallus can do just fine against them. Ignited swordsman or a Scythean will put a number onto them. Is the event 35 or 50pts?

the tourney is gonna be 50 pts, and i believe its divide and conquer

thanks again

[Neutralyze]

I think anything that can increase damage output is nice vs colossals. Evayl can get rid of upkeeps but lacks damage buffs. Pvayl, pthags, ethags, Abby all work well against colossals due to damage buffs. If you're making an anti colossal list I woul take absylonia

[Scary Lobster]

I think anything that can increase damage output is nice vs colossals. Evayl can get rid of upkeeps but lacks damage buffs. Pvayl, pthags, ethags, Abby all work well against colossals due to damage buffs. If you're making an anti colossal list I woul take absylonia

Speaking of Thagrosh2 I cant seem to wrap my head around him. I want to pair him with evayl but cant seem to find a list I like. I dont want to go shedder spam, and would love to include the throne... is he capable of being competitive at 50?

[Neutralyze]

Speaking of Thagrosh2 I cant seem to wrap my head around him. I want to pair him with evayl but cant seem to find a list I like. I dont want to go shedder spam, and would love to include the throne... is he capable of being competitive at 50?

You can make a few lists with him but I always and still feel he is dependent on shredder spam to a degree. I've been using a list recently where a use a throne and a hiding spot to have ethags go up the field while remaining safe.

This is my list currently and it will change as models get released

Ethags
carny
rvagore
scythean
shredder x 6
Thone of everblight
sheperd x 2

When the succubus comes out it most likely will drop down to 5 shredders. The thine can be armor 23 all the time an can deal with troops pretty well and can take a good hit from a heavy. Ethags can fly over it, kill models and have it run or try to get back in front of him. It use to be two scytheans. I would get one our front as a spearhead with armor 22 and let it take a charge from a heavy and possibly survive. It then would allow me to counter punch and use feat to kill models and move heavies back to safety. I like both versions of the list.

You can try for a pop and drop list using scourge, typhon and ravagores as the kill targets.

[Scary Lobster]

Thanks a ton! I def dont get to play much right now with an infant so all this input is golden

[the_stoneman]

Hi Neut,

Great of you to answer some questions.

Ha have a two part question (sort of).

1:st My meta consists of alot of heavy armor/heavy hitting heavy menoth, trolls, lots of Weapon Masters (and a sprinkle of the regular cryx). My favorite warlock by far i Evayl (great fun and have had great success with her). I do however agree that she does feel a bit weak wristed when facing Arm 21+ with tapping out at PS 17 (no carnie most of the time). Also feel facing the 19+ PS and lots of WM really eats our beasts very fast (they are awesomely great but not that hardy with ARM 18). Opponents are reasonably good so out threatening isn´t always a "sure thing" as they know what they are doing/facing.

To the questions: Do you feel that the approach to high ARM/high PS is mostly based on caster selection or more army build and tactics? (Both will naturally effect and good tactic and a good list is ofcourse always nessecary, but is it to pick an upphill battle that could/should be avoided with the warlock pick rather then list.

2:nd As I don´t play loads and loads of games (lack of time, hope to get more game time) I feel that the worst part of my gameplay is actually caster matchups. I feel that I either fall back to a caster I like (Evayl) or just gamle (Saery, she is awesome).

I know you did an article a while back regarding matchups (mostly against cryx and cygnar if I remember, shooty and denial opponents, great article but I cant seem to find it again). I do like this approach, however since I havent met alot of opponents outside of my LGS alot of casters are new to me making it hard to categorise them.

The question I guess is if you have plans/ or might consider to evolve that article even more taking in even more aspects facing the different factions (both warmachine and hordes) and include even more warlocks and how you reason when facing them?

I really enjoyed your reasoning as it made you think then rather just copy caster for caster what you said.

Thanks for your answers.

[Neutralyze]

Evayl can be extremely weak writes gainst some menoth matches. The trick here is proper placement and use of either terrain or ravagore scathed templates against single wound, non reach troopers. At adepticon I went against ekreoss tier 4 infantry spam and was able to shoot my own guys in the butt with the ravagore to center the template on it. The template is just big enough to prevent one wound, non reach troops from getting to you. The downside is a pow 15.

I don't feel caster selection determines matchups against super high armor. I've picked warlocks efote with non damage buffs to face arcane shielded stormwalls and other options. It doesn't hurt though to have someone in your arsenal that has a damage buff outside of the BFS.

I can elaborate on my article further in the future.

[Draznar]

My playgroup has played nothing but straight assassination win-cons, but I want to push for us playing scenarios as well. On that train of thought....

Which Scenarios do want to see when playing Legion? Which do you want to avoid? Feel free to break this down into Warlock specifics.

[Jamora]

I've listened to you weigh in on various pod casts and talk about your love for Legion. If you had to play any other Faction in Hordes or Warmachine, which one would it be and why would you choose them?

[Neutralyze]

I wanted to play cygnar but everyone is jumping on them recently which has pushed me away from them. For Warmachine it would be retribution. For hordes, Pigs. Even if they aren't good

[DrakkenBlut]

Hands down, the naga will be worth it's points with elylyth and maybe Abby. I feel that unless you highly value wraithbane in your meta that he doesn't really pull his PTs in many other lists. Sure a magical ranged shot that's untyped damage is good. It sucks that it comes in a light war beast platform that will bring down he amount of heavy hitter in our list.

I stopped building for my meta and began building for the convention meta and what I was seein the most.

I feel our faction lacks a cheaper heavy option. 7-8 pt range. The Scythean is role specific better at 9. I would like. 7 pt version of it. I also want an AD unit that can melee well.

Fastest learning curve was elylyth. Slowest was evayl.

What are your thoughts on Nephilim Soldier, since it is our heaviest-hitting light and the closest thing to that gap you mention (bolded). Plus its animus isn't bad.
Also, could you name such an option in other Hordes armies, as an example, since Trolls also wish for a 8pt heavy?

[Neutralyze]

My playgroup has played nothing but straight assassination win-cons, but I want to push for us playing scenarios as well. On that train of thought....

Which Scenarios do want to see when playing Legion? Which do you want to avoid? Feel free to break this down into Warlock specifics.

Elylyth likes scenarios where you can stay back and toe into a zone or have to destroy the opponents objectives.

Saeryn likes centerfield scenarios or hold / control zones an flags scenarios.

Evayl likes toe in scenarios as she doesn't want her army sitting in the center unless you have to.

Pvayl can play center scenarios or toe in scenarios pretty well I think.

Pthags can tank center zones pretty easily.

Ethags likes to toe into zones for contesting and doesn't like to get towards the center. He's a 2nd / 3rd wave beater.

Bethayne can do most scenarios

It will also come down to faction and caster matchups to determine lists.

[OminousAfro]

How much can you bench?

[PG_lord tyrant watt]

How much can you bench?

This is what I want to know? Lol

[agent red]

How long do you think legion can continue to dodge the mkII funk? Our caster releases since the reboot have been consistently phenomenal, not only opening up new styles of play and giving us excuses to take models off of the shelf but competitive and more importantly, really fun to play. How long is it before we run into our version of eGrissel or Cassius?

[Warcaster Feiss]

No Crutch 2012 aside , if you had to go blind into a game at 50pts (plus reinforcements) what would you play with??

[Neutralyze]

How much can you bench?

240 is my 1 RM for bench

[Neutralyze]

No Crutch 2012 aside , if you had to go blind into a game at 50pts (plus reinforcements) what would you play with??

Evayl or saeryn, hands down.

[Neutralyze]

How long do you think legion can continue to dodge the mkII funk? Our caster releases since the reboot have been consistently phenomenal, not only opening up new styles of play and giving us excuses to take models off of the shelf but competitive and more importantly, really fun to play. How long is it before we run into our version of eGrissel or Cassius?

First off, Cassius is good

2ndly, I feel that've got lucky with getting one great warlock and one ok one. Our heavy beast is honestly lackluster and we got. 5 pt war beast that will be used on occasion. The forces book really helped round us out and I think the next book will bring different war beasts but perhap a lacking warlock. Either that or all fiction will get good releases.

[Caldera02]

After seeing you use that ravagore tactic against richard, I had to play him next and having no practice with it I ended up timing out. With that being said I really learned alot watching the end of that game and your game against Eric. Now that I've practiced with it, I love it. My eThag list beat terminus pretty handily. Tanking Bane Knights while trampling thralls with no backlash was awesome! Thanks for that.

What do you think of double conquest or double stormwall + either haley?

[Refyougee]

After seeing you use that ravagore tactic against richard, I had to play him next and having no practice with it I ended up timing out. With that being said I really learned alot watching the end of that game and your game against Eric. Now that I've practiced with it, I love it. My eThag list beat terminus pretty handily. Tanking Bane Knights while trampling thralls with no backlash was awesome! Thanks for that.

What do you think of double conquest or double stormwall + either haley?

Seconded, but with Harkevich + 2 Conquests

[OminousAfro]

240 is my 1 RM for bench

Gonna go ahead and write a MoM article about this.

[Neutralyze]

It hard say just yet. Perhaps the arch angel is the answer. I also think if colossal lists continue to see play Abby will come into the scene. Blight field bones colossals hard.

[Sanctjud]

Will you/do you play Cryx?

Which is your favorite My Little Pony?

Will you/do you step into the Warmachine Module on Vassal?

How much practice do you get for big tourneys?

Where did you get your Avatar?

What are your favorite match ups? Whether it be easy/thought-provoking?

Can we cuddle?

I swear these questions are all about Legion...I'm pretty sure Shredders like to cuddle.

[rexim]

I've waited for the Naga for 2 months now I feel that the Naga, succubus and eLylyth will be the answer to crushing all menoth players. Do you not think so?
What 3 casters would you run if you hadn't done the no crutch 2012 thing?

[Neutralyze]

Will you/do you play Cryx?

Which is your favorite My Little Pony?

Will you/do you step into the Warmachine Module on Vassal?

How much practice do you get for big tourneys?

Where did you get your Avatar?

What are your favorite match ups? Whether it be easy/thought-provoking?

Can we cuddle?

I swear these questions are all about Legion...I'm pretty sure Shredders like to cuddle.

I do not play Cryx. I play faction that take skill .

My favorite Cryx caster would be pskarre.

I play about 6 games a week at the lgs or friends place. I played vassal 6 times but didn't like it.

My favorite matchup is terminus as the game can be hard.

I found the avatar in the painting thread 2 years ago.

Illl cuddle, but I'm big spoon!

[PG_BloodRath]

Since I get to pick your brain regularly I don't have any good questions you havent answered already.....whats your paint scheme and do you paint your models yourself