Ask Neuty about legion! questions thread.

[Duke Arioch]

Love the thread.

Besides Shredder Swarm when you don't really have a choice, do you ever purposely allow a warbeast to frenzy? If so, how many points do you think is too many for such a distraction? For example, limited to lessers or would you ever let a Raek go nuts on a flank if he is mostly there to tie up?

It was mentioned extra bolt thrower instead of ravagore for Elylyth, whats your take on that, possibly determined by the matchup I'm guessing (focus on infantry or heavies)? Do you think that the catapult plus bolt thrower would be more cost effective if you already have 1 rava for the animus?

[Neutralyze]

- How do you prioritize target selection with your Ravagores (High Def Infantry, Lights, Heavies, Support, etc...)??
- You've often mentioned forcing them 'come to you' by using the Ravagore. How do you position the rest of your army for maximum efficiency for when they do take the bait?

i always target whatever models are going to be in melee threat range and use combined forces to take it down before it becomes a threat. if infantry is bunched up it gets hard to resist setting them all on fire though .

i run ravagores into a good spot on my side of the board to threaten across the mid point and this normally makes them have to come forward due to scenarios.

[Neutralyze]

Love the thread.

Besides Shredder Swarm when you don't really have a choice, do you ever purposely allow a warbeast to frenzy? If so, how many points do you think is too many for such a distraction? For example, limited to lessers or would you ever let a Raek go nuts on a flank if he is mostly there to tie up?

It was mentioned extra bolt thrower instead of ravagore for Elylyth, whats your take on that, possibly determined by the matchup I'm guessing (focus on infantry or heavies)? Do you think that the catapult plus bolt thrower would be more cost effective if you already have 1 rava for the animus?

i dont like letting heavies frenzy unless i purposely put them out there as a piece trade. if they somehow dont die, it might change my plans if it opens up a new opportunit or threat vector i didnt have to begin with. i let raeks and shredders frenzy often as long as its not with abby as my locking Raek.

2 bolt throwers is an interesting topic because on feat it just means you push the models farther back with more attacks. it is pow 14 which is powerful though. i would use a naga, bolt thrower, ravagore and a melee heavy like typhon or angel. i guess you can do dual ravagores if your comfortable with not having many good melee backup options.

[Deacis]

Do you exclusively play Legion as your only faction?

I'm guessing you do, and I'm trying to follow in your example to become a better Legion player. I have to say, it really does work and it's rewarding.

[rexim]

How do you keep focus to not make mistakes when you have an easy match up?

[Neutralyze]

Do you exclusively play Legion as your only faction?

I'm guessing you do, and I'm trying to follow in your example to become a better Legion player. I have to say, it really does work and it's rewarding.

Legion is the only faction I own and play. It does help playing just 1 faction. It's cheaper too!

[Neutralyze]

How do you keep focus to not make mistakes when you have an easy match up?

I make mistakes. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise

[Cromusz]

What was the biggest mistake that you have made and been able to correct?
How many tournaments do you play in over the course of a year?
If you had to pick one Legion heavy as your favorite, what would it be and why?

[Neutralyze]

What was the biggest mistake that you have made and been able to correct?
How many tournaments do you play in over the course of a year?
If you had to pick one Legion heavy as your favorite, what would it be and why?

Forgeting to use activated abilities like admonition, refugee and forgetting armor piece. Already declairing it sometimes.

I can't count the number of tournies, way too many .

Ravagore is my favorite legion heavy

[PG_BloodRath]

What warlocks do you plan to use the succubus with? Who does not want it at all

[PG_JBFlanz]

Question for everyone.


How many people here are trying to get into competitive wm/ h convention scene but have question and concerns regarding it?

Trying to get out to more events is hard, but I plan on attending some in the near future. Hopefully I will get to play the likes of you one day soon. My real question is, I am looking to play at an upcoming convention, and wanted to know what is your plans for masters lists? Anything you can share would be great help for me and a few guys I know...

[rivenwyrm]

Lollerskates. He be trollin'... in more ways than one.

[VagrantPoet]

Nah, this Flanz guy seems legit!

More seriously, trying to get competitive with Legion is my goal for the summer, there's a 35 point in August and a 42 in September which I plan to go to. So I'm all for competitive advice, but mostly I'm trying to play 6-7 games against everyone I can.

[callmeHK]

You are using the BFS with pThags in your current lists. Do you feel Bethayne misses out not having them in her list? Do you think Bethayne can run with only 2 heavies, and still have enough hitting if you did have the BFS?

[Neutralyze]

You are using the BFS with pThags in your current lists. Do you feel Bethayne misses out not having them in her list? Do you think Bethayne can run with only 2 heavies, and still have enough hitting if you did have the BFS?

Bethayne can run two heavies just fine. Billy from texas has a very good list with mainly infantry in it.
Pthags does well with BFs. Helps lower defense and helps power through heavy armor with double buffs.

[Neutralyze]

Trying to get out to more events is hard, but I plan on attending some in the near future. Hopefully I will get to play the likes of you one day soon. My real question is, I am looking to play at an upcoming convention, and wanted to know what is your plans for masters lists? Anything you can share would be great help for me and a few guys I know...

Hows going in big spoon! Because I have no crutch still I will be playing the same 3 warlocks like lock an load. I want to play kallus but am still unsure of my 50 pt list for him. I do have some 75 lists made already that has him and bethayne in it.

My tips to you is to stop playing pdoomy tier 4.

[SterlingSylver]

Elylyth is a great answer to Harby.

Sorry to call back to this, but could you explain some of the strategy here? I see a lot of Harby jack spam locally, and between the choir's no-shooty song and the book's no-knockdown there isn't much room for a shooty list to get at her.

[Neutralyze]

Why do you say that? It's very hard to cover her 100% of the time. It puts her in a compromising position when advancing even a mis placement can be deadly. She doesn't like fire and she doesn't like sendin focus on getting rid I it either. Make her martyr a lot and widdle her down. Try and hit support pieces as well. When the naga comes she will be even enter vs menoth.

[Deacis]

Did you ever consider using bog troggs in any of your competitive lists? I've never used then myself, but was wondering what's your take on them.

[Neutralyze]

With kallus I hve and will run them eventually. They have a lot of promise there. At 75 PTs I would with kallus Hands down.

[CaptBooyah]

My tips to you is to stop playing pdoomy tier 4.

Speaking of pdoomy, been having a hell of a time against local troll player who mainlists this guy, usually in tier. Any suggestions for how to take him down? The last time I played him he had the pyre troll animus on everything so eLyllyth got hosed pretty hard and the closest I've come to making him sweat was with Saeryn but still that feat turn made me cry a little =\.

[Neutralyze]

Speaking of pdoomy, been having a hell of a time against local troll player who mainlists this guy, usually in tier. Any suggestions for how to take him down? The last time I played him he had the pyre troll animus on everything so eLyllyth got hosed pretty hard and the closest I've come to making him sweat was with Saeryn but still that feat turn made me cry a little =\.

there are a few things you can do. my normal go to for trolls is pvayl. if youre afraid of him ramapgering your stuff just armlock your own models to prevent it from happening. we can get the alpha with leash, SS and charging scytheans. focus fire down an important target and try to get in there to kill it before he feats with out threat ranges. after that, weather the feat and come back in to do it again.

Angels dont mind the feat turn too much. they charge and boost AP attack and say done. average of 7 damage to the angels. obviously it can be as little as 2 or up to 12 which sucks.

[CaptBooyah]

there are a few things you can do. my normal go to for trolls is pvayl. if youre afraid of him ramapgering your stuff just armlock your own models to prevent it from happening. we can get the alpha with leash, SS and charging scytheans. focus fire down an important target and try to get in there to kill it before he feats with out threat ranges. after that, weather the feat and come back in to do it again.

Angels dont mind the feat turn too much. they charge and boost AP attack and say done. average of 7 damage to the angels. obviously it can be as little as 2 or up to 12 which sucks.

Much appreciated. My second list is Abby for handling Colossals so I guess I'll drop my eLilly theme force for pVayl. Less models to cart around is also convenient.

[Neutralyze]

Much appreciated. My second list is Abby for handling Colossals so I guess I'll drop my eLilly theme force for pVayl. Less models to cart around is also convenient.

what is your current pVayl list?

[CaptBooyah]

Frankly, I stare at it wondering what to do with it. I've shelved her for a while as I was playing with eLilly, Abby and Bethayne tiers.

My initial list I'm building was:

pVayl
2x Scythean
Seraph
Typhon
Succubus

BFS
2x Shepherd
Forsaken
Full Pot
3x Spell Martyrs
Gobbers

My current self-criticism is that it needs a troop choice like striders with UA or Legionnaires to provide some jam. Maybe I should shunt the BFS to my abby list to help out with colossals.

[Neutralyze]

Frankly, I stare at it wondering what to do with it. I've shelved her for a while as I was playing with eLilly, Abby and Bethayne tiers.

My initial list I'm building was:

pVayl
2x Scythean
Seraph
Typhon
Succubus

BFS
2x Shepherd
Forsaken
Full Pot
3x Spell Martyrs
Gobbers

My current self-criticism is that it needs a troop choice like striders with UA or Legionnaires to provide some jam. Maybe I should shunt the BFS to my abby list to help out with colossals.

there are a few things i would change. first, i dont think the BFS is needed with Pvayl. she already provides a hit and damage buff in herself. most of the time the BFS defense debuff is overkill and Harm is hit or miss regarding if its really needed. the BFS could and gobvers can be legionaires full which is your tarpit to fuel the Pot. from there, you can take out 2 spell marytrs and add in one deathstalker or cut the final spell martyr and have dual deathstalkers. i really like the 13 pt legionaires full, vessek full, dual deathstalkers.

[CaptBooyah]

there are a few things i would change. first, i dont think the BFS is needed with Pvayl. she already provides a hit and damage buff in herself. most of the time the BFS defense debuff is overkill and Harm is hit or miss regarding if its really needed. the BFS could and gobvers can be legionaires full which is your tarpit to fuel the Pot. from there, you can take out 2 spell marytrs and add in one deathstalker or cut the final spell martyr and have dual deathstalkers. i really like the 13 pt legionaires full, vessek full, dual deathstalkers.

Lots of sense made. Cheers =]

How would Proteus do in this list to drag forward a warbeast after it was rampaged? Incite gets around poor mat/dmg and the drag could be good on maintaining a safe distance before/after feat turns for more alpha striking. That said, not really to room for him unless a Scythean +2pts was dropped.

[Neutralyze]

Lots of sense made. Cheers =]

How would Proteus do in this list to drag forward a warbeast after it was rampaged? Incite gets around poor mat/dmg and the drag could be good on maintaining a safe distance before/after feat turns for more alpha striking. That said, not really to room for him unless a Scythean +2pts was dropped.

Proteus works very well with pVayl. actually, shes the only warlock that i really endorse him with. sad thing is hes expensive and youll have to crunch points to get him in. losing a scythean is rough as its cheap for us and is a good trading piece.

[CaptBooyah]

Just thinking how useful it would be to rampager + drag troll heavies from behind walls and out of stonebearer radius and into incite range.

[Neutralyze]

Rampager I hard to do against a good troll player. Force lock prevents them from moving and hey can also lock their heavies.

[PG_JBFlanz]

Rampager I hard to do against a good troll player. Force lock prevents them from moving and hey can also lock their heavies.

Oh the tricks...If you want to beat a good troll player, voodoo their dice so they miss 4s on their own rampagers, and crit pitch their caster on dark sentinels. Seriously though, Vayl1 is my biggest fear when fighting as trolls, do not be afraid to start the trading, process, as your feat can equalize. Also, as Typhon is pretty much an auto include, you have the regen ability to insure good work on feat turn. The key is to not underestimate the damage of troll warriors, which can be the difference between an even trade and you falling behind. Playing Vayl1 aggressively is most important, so an absolute knowledge of your opponents army is key to ensure her safety. If she plays passively, the buffs may be too strong, and sans incite, you might fail your attempts at trading.

[Jake the Dog]

Lots of questions...

What are your thoughts on the following models and with who are they worth using?:
- Orgun Units, specially the Warspears since they're coming in the 2 Player Starter
- Sucubus
- Throne of Everblight
- Incubi
- Grotesques

I don't know why, but the Lights of Legion done seem amazing to me. Which are used the most and why?

Why did you pick Legion as your Main/Only Faction?

Is there another Warlock that can run Shredder Spam beyond Thagrosh2?

[Neutralyze]

Lots of questions...

What are your thoughts on the following models and with who are they worth using?:
- Orgun Units, specially the Warspears since they're coming in the 2 Player Starter
- Sucubus
- Throne of Everblight
- Incubi
- Grotesques

I don't know why, but the Lights of Legion done seem amazing to me. Which are used the most and why?

Why did you pick Legion as your Main/Only Faction?

Is there another Warlock that can run Shredder Spam beyond Thagrosh2?

What are your thoughts on the following models and with who are they worth using?:
- Orgun Units, specially the Warspears since they're coming in the 2 Player Starter - i think warspears are cool. 8 pts for 5 guys, 8 life, set defense, assault isnt bad. issue is they are outshined in our faction by faster option that do either melee or ranged better. they are ok with plylyth and pthags IMO.

- Sucubus - is a great addition to Legion but wont see as much play as people think. its abilities are all pretty short range but its still good for upkeep intensive warlocks.


- Throne of Everblight - i love what the model looks like and i like it with Pthags and Ethags but not many other warlocks. they work well when you can increase their survivability.

- Incubi - they are 5 pts for 5 dude that arent hurt until you make attacks with them. they have some merit but i like getting them for free with Kallus. i hate using models that are reliant on my opponents. moreso when i pay pts for them.


- Grotesques - use to run them with Kallus for a running, flying screen. issue with these guys is their pitiful spd and crap cmd. if they had spd 6 they would see play.

I don't know why, but the Lights of Legion done seem amazing to me. Which are used the most and why? - i use the Raek the most out of hte lights. the raek makes it into pvayl at 35, abby at 35 and 50, saeryn at 35 / 50 for hte most part. its a solid light but really shines with abby.

Why did you pick Legion as your Main/Only Faction? - it was the only faction not being represented at the hordes unleashed event. never played any WM / H until that day.

Is there another Warlock that can run Shredder Spam beyond Thagrosh2 - i think Pvayl or plylyth might be able to but not nearly as well as Ethags.

[Daviid]

Thanks so much for this thread. I have learned a lot already.

I love wargaming, and have played about 4 hordes games. I feel the play experience from this game fits what I am looking for very well, and I have decided to make the switch to this system. Unfortunately I am one of the types of people that feels I need to have all options available to me to start building lists; however, that costs too much money in the short term, and honestly it feels like too many options to start with. So, my question:

In general, how would you recommend a new Warmachine/Hordes player (me) approach collecting a legion army and acquiring the knowledge/skills to eventually get into regular tournament play? (I am anticipating both will take me quite a while, but that's ok. I am just looking for a framework to help me along the process)

[Fernslayer]

No Crutch 2012 aside , if you had to go blind into a game at 50pts (plus reinforcements) what would you play with??

This is actually for my Fiance' he's been looking for and unable to find the Reinforcements rule... could you please elaborate on what exactly that is?

Against trolls. Depends on the list really. If janissa is there try and put her down as elemental communion and rock walls suck for us. From there, kill normal support pieces before ou get flooded like fell callers etc.

in my recent 150pt game against Trolls, i had to go up against the wall. and i found that the Warspears did well against it. because they could charge, then throw their spears, and they have reach, so they could poke at the models behind the wall as well.

i use swordsmen in my Kallus list. i dont care for the UA

Oh Man!! Unless i am playin' something like a 25pt game and i just Dont have room.. i Always take the UA for the Swordsmen!! I feel like something is missing when i don't! But, that is just me.

[SageofLodoss]

This is actually for my Fiance' he's been looking for and unable to find the Reinforcements rule... could you please elaborate on what exactly that is?

Better to get that from Privateer Press website than specifically calling out Neutralize for a Steamroller question. The info your fiance has been searching for is here: http://privateerpress.com/organized-...er-tournaments

Look at the Steamroller 2012 rules PDF and the reinforcement details are in there.

[Fernslayer]

Better to get that from Privateer Press website than specifically calling out Neutralize for a Steamroller question. The info your fiance has been searching for is here: http://privateerpress.com/organized-...er-tournaments

Look at the Steamroller 2012 rules PDF and the reinforcement details are in there.

Thanks!! we will look it over!!

[CaptBooyah]

Thanks!! we will look it over!!

Page 10 for a exact location of Reinforcements rule.

[the_stoneman]

Thank you for answering the questions.

Since you haven´t started screaming for the sheer amount yet I´ll throw some more at you .

What casters and units/beast/solos do you prefer against circle and why?
(I myself find the ravegore invaluble since circle don´t have that high arm, apart from some the megalith etc, and also due to being able to take care of the stones and outhtreathen some of thier shenaigans).

When facing circle, do you try to beat them at their own game speed, alpha etc (something that legion is also good at) or do you go for a different approach alltogehter?

If possible please specify what locks/approaches you do against thier different locks approaches and how you reason when picking a list against typhical circle list you see in competitive enviournments. (like I said I feel I really need to get better at matching my lists against my opponents and much appriciate your input)

[Fernslayer]

Page 10 for a exact location of Reinforcements rule.

we found it, Thanks!! We are finding a lot of new stuff ( new to us anyways) that we can most assuredly put to good use!!

Edit....oopsie, i forgot to ask .... Neutralize, Do You play/use Archers?? on paper they look like they'd fit my play style, but even with Lylyth lists i can't seem to find a fit. i Try to proxy them... but i am so use to the Striders + UA and Rapters + Annyssa however, if i dont use them with lylyth i feel like i'm missing out on something. ( i have Both Lylyths)