Are the heavy rifle team worth it?

[Shuyen23]

I've just recently started WM/H and I was immediately drawn to Ret, My friend gave me a few things of his that he had procured from somewhere, and among them were the heavy rifle team. To me, they seem a little underpowered even with armor piercing to take down a lot of heavy armor, and the ghost snipers seem like a safer choice, But like I said, I am very new to the game and have only a dozen or so games under my belt, so a little help in making the most out of these guys would be great.

[joelker41]

Generally those points are better spend on the myriad of great options that the HRT competes with. Outside of Ossyan and Aiyanna/Holt there is pretty much no way to boost the thing's damage.

On an ARM 20 heavy you aren't averaging much more if any more with an HRT than you are with a Ghost Sniper, AND you get to pick the column on hard targets.

[AJ the Ronin]

The problem with the HRT is that in a game were movement is so important if they move they can't attack. That said I have 2 and use them on friendly games just because.

[Shuyen23]

Hrmm... I was afraid that was the case. So they are almost a lost cause eh?

[Mazin1]

Thanks for reminding me. I've been meaning to take them out of my Ret bag for awhile now. I'll be shelving my 2. Such a Shame. I build some awesome bases for them.

[FranzGrenstein]

The problem with the HRT is that in a game were movement is so important if they move they can't attack. That said I have 2 and use them on friendly games just because.

What he said, bear in mind other weapons crews have range to compensate for this.

In general most weapon crews are considered pants, the exeptions I can think of are the sunburst crew, the skorne catapult, and last but certainly not least the Khador mortar.

[Halycon]

you can take them in pVyros' tier NQ list, one or two will give a second heavy an advanced move and will still provide some shooting in what will likely be a fairly heavy melee list.

Just some food for thought

[TIEActor]

I'll play devils advocate and say that I love them in Rayvn and Ossy lists and enjoy when I take them. They're a bit more of a gamble and while most people seem to be in love with the guaranteed 3 points of damage from the ghost sniper, I'd rather have the potential 9 or 10 that it does against most targets.

[Murkhadh]

Generally no they are not worth it.

When armor piercing is good is when you can boost the damage, we only have one way to boost damage with these guys and its with a feat so its only one turn. Also range 14 that can't move and shoot blah, the other artillery thats good has higher range so first turn it runs, second turn its shooting, often times with these guys you don't have anything in range that second turn thats worth shooting with an AP shot, also it usually ends up that same turn that you have no good targets in range, is the turn Ossyan wants to feat.

So all in all they are hard to get a lot out of.

Certain teir forces and lists say you need a unit so you take these guys because for 2 points, you are getting a unit. But outside of that, take something else for 2 points.

Its a shame because I LOVE the model, they are so freaking cool looking.

[Murkhadh]

I'll play devils advocate and say that I love them in Rayvn and Ossy lists and enjoy when I take them. They're a bit more of a gamble and while most people seem to be in love with the guaranteed 3 points of damage from the ghost sniper, I'd rather have the potential 9 or 10 that it does against most targets.

Or you could take a mha for the same points, threat the same distance and have 10 points be average damage if it hits with potential for 30

[Xeurian]

Its a shame because I LOVE the model, they are so freaking cool looking.

Seconded.

I would love to field these guys and a unit of Riflemen... I just love the way they look!

On paper they seem so good for two points... but really instead of looking at it in a vacuum it really needs to be compared to other 2 point options we have... Hell even for two more points there's the Thane gun platform with whom I've pumped some decent shots into casters, tied up low POW flanking forces with his unyielding and taken out 4 infantry models at a time...
I know I know, different point slot but still... I would much rather take one of them over two HRTs...

[FranzGrenstein]

I think that what was frustrating to me about wrath, Ret infantry units in general are fantastic. So the only infantry unit since FOW: RoS is pants (I repeat most weapon crews are pants.) Huh??? Then I found out that colossals release had only hype, and eVyros; no infantry...that took my breath away.

[Gho5t]

Or you could take a mha for the same points, threat the same distance and have 10 points be average damage if it hits with potential for 30

This.

Bring a Banshee to knock down the target, and then the MHA is auto-hitting on the charge.
Doubled damage above ARM on 4 dice with Arcane Assassin >>> Armor Piercing POW 7 on 2 dice

[DemonCalibre]

Having played the Heavy Rifle Team. They aren't worth it, not because you can't shoot, is that getting to shoot is only one part of the equation, it's actually hitting and not shanking the damage roll.

Some Games, my Rifle Team never lines up a good shot due to my opponent keeping his things away, and them getting crushed due to their bad defensive stats before they can shoot.
Some Games, my Rifle Team shoots, and either bricks the shot, or biffs the damage roll, then gets crushed due to their crummy defensive stats and complete lack of mobility, before they can shoot again.
Rarely in some Games, my Rifle Team shoots, and hits, rolls something other then garbage for damage, then gets crushed due to their crummy defensive stats, and complete lack of mobility, before they can shoot again.
Once in a blue moon, my Rifle Team shoots, and hits, and rolls good damage, and for whatever reason I can't figure out, my opponent leaves it alone so I can shoot it a second time. Which frankly is less on me, and more on my opponent not killing a trivially killable model.

Or I can by a MHA, who can never swing a blow in anger and put the fear of god in my opponent.
Or I can by a Magister, have him do a clutch slam, clutch force bolt, or simply pimp slap some fools.
or I can by a Ghost Sniper which while doing less damage, is much more mobile, and can kill troublesome solos as well.(and frankly I never field him)

In lists already strapped for points, I could spend at least 8 points on 2 point models before even thinking about a rifle team, if I include Sylsys, and 3 point solos, I could spend easily 16 points on solos before I even think about them.

I want them to be good too, their model is sweet.

[Fateweaver]

I don't have the model, since I hadn't found a use for it since it seems so...not great on paper? But I was considering it for the Vyros NQ tier, if only to eek out an extra point at the Colossals event. Not sure I want to put the money into something I probably wouldn't use outside of that though.

[PG_Dawnlord Ed]

Some Games, my Rifle Team never lines up a good shot due to my opponent keeping his things away, and them getting crushed due to their bad defensive stats before they can shoot.
Some Games, my Rifle Team shoots, and either bricks the shot, or biffs the damage roll, then gets crushed due to their crummy defensive stats and complete lack of mobility, before they can shoot again.
Rarely in some Games, my Rifle Team shoots, and hits, rolls something other then garbage for damage, then gets crushed due to their crummy defensive stats, and complete lack of mobility, before they can shoot again.
Once in a blue moon, my Rifle Team shoots, and hits, and rolls good damage, and for whatever reason I can't figure out, my opponent leaves it alone so I can shoot it a second time. Which frankly is less on me, and more on my opponent not killing a trivially killable model.

This sums it up nicely.

[Mastershake]

Its a shame because I LOVE the model, they are so freaking cool looking.

If you're going to be sub-par this is at least the way to do it. Hell I own two of them just because.

[Halycon]

what do people think to fielding 2 of them as an anti colossal force?
2 HRT, 2 SFA, MHSF ossy and hypnos - ossy feats hits and boosts dmg, hypnos voidlocks it and boosts dmg, 2 AP shots on 3 dice, 8 brutal shots and if its still breathing get the mhsf in there too. granted its alot to bring down a colossal but its alot of points, with good dice you're likely taking it out without the mhsf so they can go into something else, if there are other jacks.
I know its situational, but as a colossal killing force, thats only around 25 points for taking it out in 1 round without getting a tonne of infantry into it.

I don't think I'd take the HRT outside of Vyros' tier or something like this to be honest and yes I love the model I just get dissapointed when its on the table and not doing a great deal, on the other hand, one of these and 2 GS sat on one flank generally cover the flank quite nicely, I once had an opponent not use an entire side of the table thanks to these 6 points of models

[Gho5t]

what do people think to fielding 2 of them as an anti colossal force?
2 HRT, 2 SFA, MHSF ossy and hypnos - ossy feats hits and boosts dmg, hypnos voidlocks it and boosts dmg, 2 AP shots on 3 dice, 8 brutal shots and if its still breathing get the mhsf in there too. granted its alot to bring down a colossal but its alot of points, with good dice you're likely taking it out without the mhsf so they can go into something else, if there are other jacks.
I know its situational, but as a colossal killing force, thats only around 25 points for taking it out in 1 round without getting a tonne of infantry into it.

I don't think I'd take the HRT outside of Vyros' tier or something like this to be honest and yes I love the model I just get dissapointed when its on the table and not doing a great deal, on the other hand, one of these and 2 GS sat on one flank generally cover the flank quite nicely, I once had an opponent not use an entire side of the table thanks to these 6 points of models

Possible but tricky. You have to hope that the Colossal walked into range of the HRT.

[TIEActor]

Or you could take a mha for the same points, threat the same distance and have 10 points be average damage if it hits with potential for 30

the problem being that the MHA's draw fire like no ones bussniess but no one ever really seems to worry about my HRT, untill it one shots a dragoon or guts a light jack.

[Murkhadh]

the problem being that the MHA's draw fire like no ones bussniess but no one ever really seems to worry about my HRT, untill it one shots a dragoon or guts a light jack.

After the first time you do something good with the HRT people will decide to kill the, the difference is it will take a LOT less effort to kill a HRT than it will a mhaX

[Gho5t]

After the first time you do something good with the HRT people will decide to kill the, the difference is it will take a LOT less effort to kill a HRT than it will a mhaX

MHAx is great!

And yes, people always go after MHAs because they know how much potential they have. They hit harder than HRT in most cases.
They are also a bit harder to kill.

[Nobu]

You could try using the Heavy Rifle Team against Colossals, but in the one game I played against one (where I brought two HRTs) they were mowed down by deviated AoEs the turn they got into firing range. They're a huge target with no built in way to compensate that aside from their range.

I'm a newbie, mind you, and I haven't seen what all of the Colossals have. I was up against the Menoth one (it was proxied) which pretty much destroyed me and my teammate with fire continuous damage. (Although the Cryx caster who was on Menoth's team got slammed by Banshee into a Wrack, which exploded and killed her, hehe.)

A ghost sniper or MHA would be less likely to be near my main strength, and less likely to be hit by AoE deviations, it seems to me. Even if they're close to everyone else, they're smaller targets with boxes. I admit I'm a newbie and mostly like the HRTs because of the model though.

[TIEActor]

Used my HRT last night and under ossy's feat they did 12 points of damage to a ravagore. It would have taken a ghost sniper 4 turns to match that kind of output.

[Murkhadh]

Used my HRT last night and under ossy's feat they did 12 points of damage to a ravagore. It would have taken a ghost sniper 4 turns to match that kind of output.

You opponent should have never given you that shot, especially not if he has a ravagore. I say your opponent because with a model that cannot move and shoot, its up to your opponent when you get to fire, not you.

[Xeurian]

You opponent should have never given you that shot, especially not if he has a ravagore. I say your opponent because with a model that cannot move and shoot, its up to your opponent when you get to fire, not you.

I suppose the idea is to force him to make that choice... It's resources he didn't dedicate elsewhere. Though I still feel like the MHA does that better and am not convinced these guys are really worth fielding...

[jandrese]

IMHO, none of the non-AoE light artillery pieces are worth it. It's too easy for their only viable targets to get engaged and become nigh-impossible to hit. With the Mortar Crew or Sunburst you can at least just try to deviate an AoE over some troops if nothing else.

[Murkhadh]

IMHO, none of the non-AoE light artillery pieces are worth it. It's too easy for their only viable targets to get engaged and become nigh-impossible to hit. With the Mortar Crew or Sunburst you can at least just try to deviate an AoE over some troops if nothing else.

This, those are the exact 2 artillery pieces I think are good and this is the biggest part of the reason.

[MetalStorm]

Yeah, the biggest flaw of the Heavy Rifle Team is what is possibly the worst rule in the game, Light Artillery. Not sure why PP keep releasing models with the rule attached as without RNG 16+, High Power and an AoE they're practically paperweights. Makes me a little sad as the models are so very pretty.