Warroom thought

[JuicySquash]

So I'm extremely exticed for warroom t come out (been checking every hour today) but there is one thing that I'm worried about is that's people just using the app and not bringing the cards any more. I don't mind ebooks but at the same time I do like physically having the cards and being able to read and hold them and also seeing the damage easily. I would prefer to not buy every faction deck but I might end up doing that, rather save the money tho

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

So I'm extremely exticed for warroom t come out (been checking every hour today) but there is one thing that I'm worried about is that's people just using the app and not bringing the cards any more. I don't mind ebooks but at the same time I do like physically having the cards and being able to read and hold them and also seeing the damage easily. I would prefer to not buy every faction deck but I might end up doing that, rather save the money tho

It is completely legal to just bring war room instead of physical cards. Sorry, but it's going to happen.

[bouncymischa]

It is completely legal to just bring war room instead of physical cards. Sorry, but it's going to happen.

It's going to put the whole discussion about whether or not to tell an opponent information, or simply "give them the cards" in a whole new light, particularly when said cards are now stored on a $500+ electronic device...

[Starweaver]

Also, keep in mind that if you have warroom, you do not need to have bought your opponent's deck in order to see his cards during the game. If you set up the match you will be able to see his cards and damage tracking regardless of if you have bought that specific deck or not.
If you want to look back at it later on after the match, you will need the deck.

[Iff]

It is completely legal to just bring war room instead of physical cards. Sorry, but it's going to happen.

If it´s completely legal to have War Room, then be prepared to hand over your smart phone to your opponent if he asks to see your cards...

Edit, to expand on the argument: You can't expect every opponent to have a smart phone with War Room. If he doesn't, he still has a right to see your cards. Either you're prepared to hand him your smart phone to browse through your cards, or you bring a stacks of cards as well. Makes sense, since you can just keep your stack of cards on the opponent's side of the table.

[MadJack]

If it´s completely legal to have War Room, then be prepared to hand over your smart phone to your opponent if he asks to see your cards...

Absolutely. I don't really see a problem with this, though. I'm already used to handing my phone over to opponents to let them use iBodger, to use it as a timer, etc.

[PG_Killdrath]

@Iff: That's been said before. If you use war room (especially at a tourney) be prepared to hand over your device when someone needs to see your cards.

Myself, I plan to still have the cards and use the app for proxying new stuff and list building.

[Poppabear40]

I will use it more for a building tool and for friendly games. However.. I will have the cards with me and at the table. In tourneys i will use the cards for marking damage, I think i would be too slow in a tourney otherwise.

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

If it´s completely legal to have War Room, then be prepared to hand over your smart phone to your opponent if he asks to see your cards...

Edit, to expand on the argument: You can't expect every opponent to have a smart phone with War Room. If he doesn't, he still has a right to see your cards. Either you're prepared to hand him your smart phone to browse through your cards, or you bring a stacks of cards as well. Makes sense, since you can just keep your stack of cards on the opponent's side of the table.

Yup, that's exactly correct. I have no problem with that. I'll be using an ipad, and I have exactly zero problem with handing it to the other side of the table.

Seriously, these devices aren't made of porcelain. They're tough. They should do just fine with a (max)12" drop from hand to table top no problem. Your opponent isn't going to chuck it on the floor.

But maybe that's my mistake for assuming that my opponents will be semi-reasonable human beings. If you're terrified of your opponent breaking your device, are you also afraid of them picking up your models and hurling them against the wall? Because that's about as likely.

[Kamahin]

Yup, that's exactly correct. I have no problem with that. I'll be using an ipad, and I have exactly zero problem with handing it to the other side of the table.

Seriously, these devices aren't made of porcelain. They're tough. They should do just fine with a (max)12" drop from hand to table top no problem. Your opponent isn't going to chuck it on the floor.

But maybe that's my mistake for assuming that my opponents will be semi-reasonable human beings. If you're terrified of your opponent breaking your device, are you also afraid of them picking up your models and hurling them against the wall? Because that's about as likely.

You have obviously never had the priveledge of playing against Cheetos McClumsyfingers.

[notsoevil]

Using the app in game will be annoying I think. Annoying to myself. Devices go to sleep for one.

I will own the app for list building and looking at abilities, etc.

But in game? I think it will slow it down too much.

[Driver]

Seriously, these devices aren't made of porcelain. They're tough. They should do just fine with a (max)12" drop from hand to table top no problem. Your opponent isn't going to chuck it on the floor.

You have never met Apollo....

[SgtPepper]

Using the app in game will be annoying I think. Annoying to myself. Devices go to sleep for one.

I turn off all my devices from going to sleep automatically. Very easy to do on phones/tablets.

[PG_UndeadDan]

You have never met Apollo....

No idea who or what an Apollo is, but if he can't be trusted to be careful with your device, you probably shouldn't play him.

[a spastic ninja]

It's going to put the whole discussion about whether or not to tell an opponent information, or simply "give them the cards" in a whole new light, particularly when said cards are now stored on a $500+ electronic device...

They already covered this in the SR2012 rules by saying if you're using War Room and the other guy isn't you have to hand over the device when they want to see stuff. Its perfectly reasonable to extend that to casual play, and if anyone refuses than don't play with them until they start using cards again.

[Ordrek]

There will be many legitimate opinions on this, but if I am running an event, you will need to bring physical cards for an opponent to reference. An opponent should not have to spend part of their timed turned wrestling with your technology, even if it is "easy" to learn and second nature to you.

I say this as someone who will regularly use the program myself.

[PG_Celeb]

I will carry Warrom for me and cards to give them to my opponent. He can keep them the whole game, if damage tracking works reasonably fast with warroom

[AJ the Ronin]

They already covered this in the SR2012 rules by saying if you're using War Room and the other guy isn't you have to hand over the device when they want to see stuff. Its perfectly reasonable to extend that to casual play, and if anyone refuses than don't play with them until they start using cards again.

Also, if your device runs out of battery you lose.

Before using it on tournaments I have to test how my Kindle will handle a long day of playing considering that not all store will have electrical outlets for easy access during any given round.

[DarkLegacy]

There will be many legitimate opinions on this, but if I am running an event, you will need to bring physical cards for an opponent to reference. An opponent should not have to spend part of their timed turned wrestling with your technology, even if it is "easy" to learn and second nature to you.

I say this as someone who will regularly use the program myself.

SR2012 says they don't need to if they are using the device. If you are planning on running a SR2012 event and haven't told people of this house rule, I'd be a little miffed if I couldn't play with just my device.

Personally, I'd never play without my cards as backup. If I can't get my device to work after a hiccup, I autolose the game...No thanks! I'll always carry the backups for players and battery recharge time.

[Mustakrakish]

It's going to put the whole discussion about whether or not to tell an opponent information, or simply "give them the cards" in a whole new light, particularly when said cards are now stored on a $500+ electronic device...

You mean $150 refurb Kindle fire, right? right?

[bouncymischa]

You mean $150 refurb Kindle fire, right? right?

I wouldn't know, to be honest -- I'm finally catching up with the 21st century myself, by buying my first MP3 player in June and my first smartphone this past weekend. I still have no clue how to really use it...

An opponent should not have to spend part of their timed turned wrestling with your technology, even if it is "easy" to learn and second nature to you.

I suspect this wil be another disincentive for me to participate in organized play -- I'm finding it hard enough to keep up with the functionality of my newfangled (yet simple) MP3 player and smartphone, and trying to figure out how to navigate someone else's electronic toy during a timed turn is worrisome.

I can just imagine asking some kid if any of his models have stealth, and he just hands over his smartphone and smirks at me while I spend my turn trying to navigate it...

[a spastic ninja]

Also, if your device runs out of battery you lose.

Before using it on tournaments I have to test how my Kindle will handle a long day of playing considering that not all store will have electrical outlets for easy access during any given round.

Very true. I'm not even going to bother trying to use my Kindle for tournies outside of listbuilding.

[AJ the Ronin]

Very true. I'm not even going to bother trying to use my Kindle for tournies outside of listbuilding.

If I turn the internet off I'm able to do 6 hours marathons comic book reading with Perfect Viewer. Longer streaks of reading using the native document reader for the University.

Test must be run, no doubt before I try it on a tournament.

[ennuii]

Heh oh man. I know iphones can explode if dropped from 3 feet. Id hate to see some of these mouthbreathers pawing a nice tablet at a tournament. Ive been hesitant to hand over books to slobs ages past at tourneys... and the rage factor. Ever seen someone toss a card on the table all mad? Heh. /impending doooooooom

[lanedaughtry]

Hey guys, figured I'd weigh in with some findings. I'm the lead developer at TinkerHouse.

I play at least once weekly for generally 2-5 hour sessions. I have a several year old iPad 1 and a new iPad 3 test device. I see battery drops of between 4 - 8 percent in those amounts of time. I do let the device sleep after 15 minutes but generally I'm using it often enough that they stay on the whole time. And if you use the built in timer then obviously it needs to not sleep.

I also played all day Saturday (9 hours?) at Lock & Load with the build we had then on the iPad 3 and saw a 12% drop.

Now, device batteries are little lithium ion snow flakes. Which is to say each has it's own foibles. But field testing has shown that the devices we ran on didn't take concerning battery life hits.

-L

[quindraco]

Hey guys, figured I'd weigh in with some findings. I'm the lead developer at TinkerHouse.

I play at least once weekly for generally 2-5 hour sessions. I have a several year old iPad 1 and a new iPad 3 test device. I see battery drops of between 4 - 8 percent in those amounts of time. I do let the device sleep after 15 minutes but generally I'm using it often enough that they stay on the whole time. And if you use the built in timer then obviously it needs to not sleep.

I also played all day Saturday (9 hours?) at Lock & Load with the build we had then on the iPad 3 and saw a 12% drop.

Now, device batteries are little lithium ion snow flakes. Which is to say each has it's own foibles. But field testing has shown that the devices we ran on didn't take concerning battery life hits.

-L

What about when you set the app to animate mode and it showed 3-d renderings of your models assuming battle stances and using their weapons? You DID get the memo about animate mode, right?

[AJ the Ronin]

Hey guys, figured I'd weigh in with some findings. I'm the lead developer at TinkerHouse.

I play at least once weekly for generally 2-5 hour sessions. I have a several year old iPad 1 and a new iPad 3 test device. I see battery drops of between 4 - 8 percent in those amounts of time. I do let the device sleep after 15 minutes but generally I'm using it often enough that they stay on the whole time. And if you use the built in timer then obviously it needs to not sleep.

I also played all day Saturday (9 hours?) at Lock & Load with the build we had then on the iPad 3 and saw a 12% drop.

Now, device batteries are little lithium ion snow flakes. Which is to say each has it's own foibles. But field testing has shown that the devices we ran on didn't take concerning battery life hits.

-L

Thanks for this. Question: These tests are done with the internet on? (I know nothing about the iPad so I don't know if you can actually turn that functionality off)

[Primus]

It is absolutely possible to turn off both Wi-Fi and 3G/4G (if your iOS device has it) in order to save battery life.

[DarkLegacy]

The Internet would have to be on for the device to utilize WarRoom correctly. I highly doubt they'd test it in a mode that may not even work for the normal player.

I think having the internet off would only apply if you were using the app local and could track damage without connecting to the servers.

[lanedaughtry]

@quindraco - Unfortunately we had to hold on the full 3D rendering of the game until the team in Russia could finish the asset work. The volumetric environmental effects are really coming along stunningly. And the parallaxing normal maps on the jacks for large caliber ranged fire really helps sell the whole thing. Finally, we're working with a peripheral company to create an add on smoke machine to simulate the fog of war on the table.

We are still locking the necessary processor cycles for inclusion of that feature at a later date though. You know... to get your device ready for it.

@AJ - Yup. W/ wifi on in particular as we play in the conference room. With a stable wifi signal the battery doesn't get hit as hard because it's not constantly trying to find a connection spot. That last statement comes with the caveat that that's how I understand it works I make no guarantee's as to the full efficacy of battery life vs your type of connection. Those are my findings though.

@DarkLegacy - If you're playing solo you could turn off connectivity and play just fine. Connectivity is for multiplayer.

[AJ the Ronin]

That has being my experience with Wi-fi too. Good to know that the app won't consume too much battery by itself.

All that is left is to see how my special lithium ion snow flake reacts to it (hopefully I'll get to try it this weekend, *finger-crossed*)

[MadJack]

@lanedaughtry: any official word on whether theme force validation is supported in the version being released? I know I can just wait a few days to find out, but I'd rather know sooner so that I can plan my purchase (if it's supported then I'll be buying all decks right away - if not, I'll go with the free version and play around with it a lot before I decide whether to buy any decks).

[PG_Bobby Hostile]

@Lane Thanks for weighing in on the debate. As you can see, there is considerable anticipation for War Room.

I'm lucky enough to have a LGS set up with connectivity in mind with outlets by each table and cup holders for drinks... that's right... cup holders. We also have a 55" TV set up so we can hook our laptops up to it when we run the Tournament software. Our community is ready for War Room to release to us. I for one look forward to NOT having to dig through all my cards to get out the ones I want. Plus I won't have to laminate them any more.

[JuicySquash]

Well hearing all of this is slightly turning me onto the idea more and more, but I guess when it actually comes out ill be able to see how it works actually. And needing a connection could present a problem in my shop since signal is bad and there's no wifi...

[PG_Gannon]

Thanks for the input lane, it really helps to see even this little bit of information given out. I'm really looking forward to the release.

[Tyr852]

Opponents will get a hard copy of the deck I'm playing (it takes only a couple minutes to pull out the needed cards and put them in a couple pages for the day) I'm more curious how stores will deal with the increased demand for power outlets ^_^ .

Also so jealous of cup holder tables

[PG_Bobby Hostile]

OFF TOPIC: New Orleans really is a good place to be a gamer now. 3 years ago it wasn't, but nowadays, we have 2 excellent game shops that get along well, are both run professionally, cater to just about any game people are willing to play and absolutely will bend over backwards to grow the community. Having 1 shop to do that would be great. Having 2 makes it so much better. We have 22 people in a Journeyman league at one shop alone.

ON TOPIC: As you can see, we have a sizable WM/H! community and I cannot wait to show off this app to players. Damn near everyone has a smart phone now days (or it at least seems like it), so I think it'd be dashing to have an event with more people using War Room than actual cards. :-)

[watchgeorgerock]

what happens if both players are using warroom and connection server crashes??

[DesertSpiral]

SR2012 says they don't need to if they are using the device. If you are planning on running a SR2012 event and haven't told people of this house rule, I'd be a little miffed if I couldn't play with just my device.

Things, I think sr12 gives the To the latitude to do pretty much whatever they want.

Secondly, even if you do bring cards the moment your device fails (which over nine hours of use without sleep turned on and possibly clocking rounds too - it will, without help -at least, mine would) and your damage is erased I'd be upset.

Then I guess over a big con, with multiple spread out events over three+ days the odds of many devices failing is pretty high, well I can imagine profiteering off of recharging people on the Saturday at least .

I feel that personally I will always use the cards - because they're never going to lock or fail - they're easy to use and a visceral part of the war machine identity for me. I'll buy warroom and enjoy it, and encourage all my opponents to rely on it, but if I somehow ever get to a masters final I certainly wouldn't want to lose because of technical difficulties.

[Bohrdog]

I will still use the cards when I play every time.