How Hex Hunters?

[ElectricPaladin]

I have before me a brand new box of Hex Hunters. I plan on running them tomorrow with Bethayne. It will be my first time using both of these models in any fashion. What kind of strategic advice can my fellow blighted abominations offer me?

[SteakAndSpirits]

Hex Hunters and Bethayne both first appeared in the Forces of Hordes: Legion of Everblight book. They work very well together, and it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that they were intentionally designed in parallel and to work together. The obvious application is the feat: Giving Hex-hunters boosted magic attack and damage rolls allows them to threaten a very wide range of targets. If you're planning on running them with Bayal, remember that the bonus dice from the feat is applicable to each target under his spray template, but don't hestitate to sacrifice him to lock down an opposing melee heavy with Shadowbind.

Both Ashen Veil and Carnivore have applications on the Hex Hunters. In the case of the former, they make an excellent tarpit unit against living warbeasts as their Hex Bolt allows them to shut down tramples, while their effective DEF: 16 makes them pretty annoying to deal with. Alternately, Carnivore means they'll almost always hit their charge target, though that comes at the cost of allowing them to Battle Wizard a Hex Bolt deeper into the opposing lines.

Just remember that you don't always need to charge them. A 7" advance plus a 6" Hex-Bolt is often just what you'll need. And remember, Hunter DOES NOT allow you to ignore conceal/cover when using Hex Bolt.

Good luck!

-s&s

(Super-Sekrit-Bonus-Track: For extra mileage out of Bayal and Bethayne, use Shadow-Bind on a non-reach melee heavy to plaint it in place, then Gallows it off out of melee range from Bayal. Then proceed to dry wash your hands, chuckle softly to yourself, and stroke an imaginary beard.)

[SteakAndSpirits]

Double-Post! WhooO!

-s&s

[Neutralyze]

Hex Hunters and Bethayne both first appeared in the Forces of Hordes: Legion of Everblight book. They work very well together, and it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that they were intentionally designed in parallel and to work together. The obvious application is the feat: Giving Hex-hunters boosted magic attack and damage rolls allows them to threaten a very wide range of targets. If you're planning on running them with Bayal, remember that the bonus dice from the feat is applicable to each target under his spray template, but don't hestitate to sacrifice him to lock down an opposing melee heavy with Shadowbind.

Both Ashen Veil and Carnivore have applications on the Hex Hunters. In the case of the former, they make an excellent tarpit unit against living warbeasts as their Hex Bolt allows them to shut down tramples, while their effective DEF: 16 makes them pretty annoying to deal with. Alternately, Carnivore means they'll almost always hit their charge target, allowing them to Battle Wizard a Hex Bolt deeper into the opposing lines.

Just remember that you don't always need to charge them. A 7" advance plus a 6" Hex-Bolt is often just what you'll need. And remember, Hunter DOES NOT allow you to ignore conceal/cover when using Hex Bolt.

Good luck!

-s&s

(Super-Sekrit-Bonus-Track: For extra mileage out of Bayal and Bethayne, use Shadow-Bind on a non-reach melee heavy to plant it in place, then Gallows it off out of melee range from Bayal. Then proceed to dry wash your hands, chuckle softly to yourself, and stroke an imaginary beard.)

Carnivore prevents battlewizard
when shadowbound the model is unable to move.

[SteakAndSpirits]

Carnivore prevents battlewizard
when shadowbound the model is unable to move.

Mmmmm. That's right. RFP. Let me make some edits, in that case. That said, my reading of the text doesn't jive with what you're saying about Shadowbind:

A model hit by this weapon suffers -3 DEF and when it advances it cannot move except to change facing.

Remember that a pushed model is not advancing and therefore cannot be targeted by free strikes during this movement.

Might be worth floating in the rules forum, if you're certain.

-s&s

[Roadhouse]

I think s&s is right on this. Shadowbind states when advancing and Push says the model isn't advancing. Shadowbind would have wording similar to Immovable Object and would stop Push and Place effects expressly.

Hex Hunters are awesome under Beth as you can imagine. Don't limit your target selection with them on feat turn, mass boosted Pow 13's, 15's with BFS, will tear down heavies.

[ElectricPaladin]

These little bastards had better be awesome tomorrow. I have new holes in my thumbs. Many new holes.

I'll report back once I've seen them on the field. Thanks for the advice.

[TheLat]

You can save Bayal after he's locked down a heavy with a Nephilim Bolt Thrower or a Seraph. It makes things like the Deathjack very sad.

[Tommmmm]

I've really gone off Bayal - he just doesn't get much worth from me, but he is an obvious pick with Beth.

The key to using Hex Hunters (as S&S said) is to not commit them fully ever. They're an amazing 2-1 unit that can always swing the troop war back in your favour. Commit 3-4 to the front line at a time and Battle Wizard. Let them take your front line and commit the next wave, this should out attrition any unit but Errants.

[ElectricPaladin]

Double Post

[ElectricPaladin]

Triple Post

[ElectricPaladin]

I've really gone off Bayal - he just doesn't get much worth from me, but he is an obvious pick with Beth.

The key to using Hex Hunters (as S&S said) is to not commit them fully ever. They're an amazing 2-1 unit that can always swing the troop war back in your favour. Commit 3-4 to the front line at a time and Battle Wizard. Let them take your front line and commit the next wave, this should out attrition any unit but Errants.

This meshes well with my plan to deploy them with a Spawning Vessel unit following them down the field. That makes it a win-win situation for me: kill my Hex Hunters, and I get even more corpse tokens and more warbeasts; don't kill my Hex Hunters and, well... I still have Hex Hunters to kill you with! And either way, I'm getting corpse tokens.

In the same spirit, I'm thinking of getting some Incubi to toss on the table if the cookpot fills up on my opponent's turn while he's still killing Hex Hunters, or if my opponent finds some way to kill off or neutralize the cookpot. The Incubi effect will prevent the cookpot from getting a token (I think - the cookpot gets a token when a model is destroyed, the...)

No. Forget it. It's totally compatible. Neither the Incubus, nor the Spawning Vessel, alter the process of being removed from play. They just use it to trigger their own effects. That means that I can use Hex Hunters, Spawning Vessel, and Incubi to send a unit of squishy, killy guys directly down my opponent's throat and benefit from all the deaths: corpse tokens for the cookpot, hosts for the Incubi. It's a party!

[SteakAndSpirits]

I've been getting turned on to the Spawning Vessel lately. I've had a pair of Stingers pop out of one in recent games where one crippled a Bronzeback under Bad Blood, and another one-shotted an expensive Cavalry Solo. Just be mindful of the opponent being able to draw LOS through the Hex Hunters to destroy the Spawning Vessel before you've gotten some mileage out of it.

-s&s

[ElectricPaladin]

I've been getting turned on to the Spawning Vessel lately. I've had a pair of Stingers pop out of one in recent games where one crippled a Bronzeback under Bad Blood, and another one-shotted an expensive Cavalry Solo. Just be mindful of the opponent being able to draw LOS through the Hex Hunters to destroy the Spawning Vessel before you've gotten some mileage out of it.

-s&s

The Spawning Vessel puts your opponent in one of those lose-lose situations. Spend fury and activations killing it? Sure - that just lets me get closer to you, and besides, killing the acolyths just adds more corpse tokens to the pot. Ignore it? Even better. The only completely bad situation is if someone manages to snipe the cookpot itself before killing the acolyths (and that's not easy to do). Incubi provide a good solution to that: just send the Acolyths into combat. When your opponent kills them to prevent them from getting off annoying free strikes with their reach weapons, just pop out some Incubi.

[SteakAndSpirits]

The Spawning Vessel puts your opponent in one of those lose-lose situations. Spend fury and activations killing it? Sure - that just lets me get closer to you, and besides, killing the acolyths just adds more corpse tokens to the pot. Ignore it? Even better. The only completely bad situation is if someone manages to snipe the cookpot itself before killing the acolyths (and that's not easy to do). Incubi provide a good solution to that: just send the Acolyths into combat. When your opponent kills them to prevent them from getting off annoying free strikes with their reach weapons, just pop out some Incubi.

It's gotten remarkably better in MK II, that's for sure.

One thing that I really like about it is it's ability to advance, then use its action to place the lesser Warbeast. Really makes for some cool charge angles and threat ranges. So far the Stinger has been my favorite choice, but having a Harrier True Strike itself before charging over and killing an annoying solo seems like another valid application -- The threat range on that is excellent!

Anyway. I don't want to derail your thread. So, ahh... back on topic -- Hex Hunters. Yeah. WhooOOO. Hunting hexes.

Don't feel like Bayal must be included each time you field them, either. Yes, he's cool, but if you don't need the Advance Deploy, hunter is pretty situational, and 3 points isn't cheap.

-s&s

[Beckman]

It's gotten remarkably better in MK II, that's for sure.

One thing that I really like about it is it's ability to advance, then use its action to place the lesser Warbeast. Really makes for some cool charge angles and threat ranges. So far the Stinger has been my favorite choice, but having a Harrier True Strike itself before charging over and killing an annoying solo seems like another valid application -- The threat range on that is excellent!

Anyway. I don't want to derail your thread. So, ahh... back on topic -- Hex Hunters. Yeah. WhooOOO. Hunting hexes.

Don't feel like Bayal must be included each time you field them, either. Yes, he's cool, but if you don't need the Advance Deploy, hunter is pretty situational, and 3 points isn't cheap.

-s&s

I agree. It always amuses me when I move the pot, then make a Shredder within 3", then rabid and charge 11.5". That's some crazy threat range. Walking 8.5 and making 2 attacks is pretty good too, considering it's non-linear, pathfinder movement from a largely disposable beast.

[SteakAndSpirits]

I agree. It always amuses me when I move the pot, then make a Shredder within 3", then rabid and charge 11.5". That's some crazy threat range. Walking 8.5 and making 2 attacks is pretty good too, considering it's non-linear, pathfinder movement from a largely disposable beast.

Yeah, man, for sure!

If the target is a living, and Pathfinder is not an issue, I find that Stingers work best -- They're an 11" threat range instead of a 11.5" threat range, but that 12 + 4d6 is really pretty fearsome! The Shredder really shines when it's either getting free charges, or it can pull off a Rabid advance, for two fully boosted attacks.

I have noticed that my lessers aren't as resilient as they were in MK I, however. That single loss of DEF and ARM seems to inevitably mean they're hit by whatever is around them, and subsequently maimed into oblivion -- So I don't count on them sticking around too long.

Also, and this is a somewhat corner case application, but on a turn where warbeasts are run to absolutely maximum fury, there are no transfer targets available to our WLs. And open the door to get taken out, even if our turn was decisive from an attrition standpoint -- In that case, use the lesser to pop out and hang out in the backranks near our WL, just to soak up an extra 12 or so damage points.

Back on topic -- One of the great things about Hex Hunters is that I feel like there is a little overlap with Striders. So in lists where I am tempting to bring Striders, but I also want a melee infantry unit, but lack the points for both...

...Voila. Hex Hunters.

-s&s

[allenamenvergeben]

What warlock can make use of hex hunters apart from Beth?

[Refyougee]

I like pVayl - its a different way of running her, but theyre a great chiller target and her feat helps Bayal lock something down and then survive if you decide to include him.

[lancer]

so far I have only run hex hunters exclusively with Rhyas, with a high base move plus dash they can get a nice 14" threat with there hex bolts ignoring melee zones, while in Rhyas control zone and with feat up they can do a 3 for 1 trade on other infantry OR potential 19" to 20" (depending on base size of model destroyed) threat with a battle wizard hex bolt to opposition face.

If you do this through a forest with Bayal thats also 3 weapon master attacks on your way past whatever is the charge target. Bayal can adds +2 to the threat range with frostbite at the expense of 1 pow.

also the ability to reach out and place 11 hex hunters on the 29" line taking first turn or threaten the 27"(charge) 30"(hexbolt) 32"(frostbite) line taking second turn puts a few holes in the opponents plans for there AD units

[PG_BloodRath]

I've used them a bunch with kallus as a fast alpha strike unit who die quickly and become incubus in droves. Pathfinder helps his list a ton

[Hatdecoy]

Carnivore prevents battlewizard

I'm sure I'm overlooking something obvious here, but why is this so? I keep rereading the descriptions for both, and I'm not seeing why one precludes the other.

[Karnstein]

I'm sure I'm overlooking something obvious here, but why is this so? I keep rereading the descriptions for both, and I'm not seeing why one precludes the other.

The answer is pretty simple. The hex hunter ability triggers at "destroyed", which is the third phase after disabled and boxed. Carnivore triggers at boxed and then removes the model from play = no destroyed step = no free spell.

Rulebook reverence: Combat>Damage>Disabled and Destroyed (p.46 WM pocket-book or p.66 for the big Hordes mk2 book)