what does the siege animantarax fight?

[Xavier319]

I've used one in a few fights now, and I cant actually figure out what it's supposed to fight. Any insights? What does it excel against? What kinds of fights should it pick? Has anyone used it successfully? and is there any situation in which it is better or more tactical to take than a similarly costed unit of infantry or warbeast?

[Rynth]

I've used one in a few fights now, and I cant actually figure out what it's supposed to fight. Any insights? What does it excel against? What kinds of fights should it pick? Has anyone used it successfully?

I've had the most success with it by combining it with an Extoller(Guidance) and a Krea(Paralysis) and/or Raider(Snipe) and focusing on large bases. This is dangerous because usually large based models are very capable of killing the Animantarax in a single turn if the number of attacks, successful attacks or damage rolls are too low. Once the major threats to it have been dealt with then it can start jumping into melee.

and is there any situation in which it is better or more tactical to take than a similarly costed unit of infantry or warbeast?

Against a down large base with max shots an Animantarax get 4 POW 15 shots. 9 points of venators gets 3 POW 15 CRAs and a POW 12, a 9 point cannoneer gets only 1 POW 15, but it is a boostable AOE. Unfortunately the number of shots an Animantarax gets is random, so sometimes it will outpreform, other times it will under preform.

[PG_TyrantAndrew]

I agree with what Rynth said, I've had it hunting large base models with its gun with snipe and guidance, had it completely trash a stormclad and an earthborn over a couple of turns, then charges it to tie up infantry that can't exactly walk away from it

[gaminguy]

For part one, the Animantarax needs the Raider at a dead minimum; it simple doesn't have the threat range to be effective without it. I've had the most success using it with Rasheth, he has enough Fury to spam Far Strike to get better use from the Raider and he has our only real armor debuffs for hard targets. (EHexi is limited to enemy units.)

For part two, depite my best efforts to the contrary (and I really do want to like the Animantarax) it's at minimum a 14 point module. If you just let the Raider play buff-bot to the SA it's going to dissapoint you at that price point.

The hard part is remembering that unlike the Catapult, the SA's "Crew" actually has a gun he can use with a little support. It adds a boosted POW 14 to the SA's 2-4 POW 15s on a large target. That's not unrespectable; three Raiders or two Raiders and two Flayers will beat it by a little on hard targets* but they have some obvious weaknesses, not the least of which is the Fury cost to spam Far Strike.

* They're substantially better on single-wound targets, but we have that job covered pretty well.

[Lord Tyrant peers]

I dunno i think it is good against medium infantry too aslong as theyre not mega shield wall defenders warded

[PG_Chris Cuevas]

Been running the Animantarax pretty hot and heavy recently. Some recent observations...

Animantarax gets is random, so sometimes it will outpreform, other times it will under preform

Yup.

I've had the most success using it with Rasheth

Double yup!

Out of the 15 games I've played with it, its been Rasheth 14 times. Tried it once with Naaresh. Naaresh basically had nothing important to contribute to it, and was a tad fury starved to consistently give it snipe.

I've actually had it take random pot shots at importat solos and actually nail one every once in a while. Most recently it tagged a spell martyr that was sneaking around behind some woods. Throw enough dice and you *will* catch awesome rolls.

I'm aiming with it about 50% of the time.

I'm only bringing the raider with it about half the time.

Played it against pigs once, with lightning strike on it. Pretty LoLsy. It charged into a handful of cleaver pigs and stabbity-stabbed, shot another cleaver pig or two and then walked away from the mess. It would have been a great success but the Ultimate Fastness that is the Road Hog+mobility+feat caught my turtle and 'sploded it.

In my most recent game, the turtle got stuck behind an objective due to poor placement on my behalf. Poor placement might have been too strong a word as I was actually leaving some space for my gators to do their thing. In that same game, the turn after it was stuck behind the objective the celestial fulcrum scored a critical hit on it and froze it. So the SA literally was glued to the same spot for 3 turns.

[PG_Chris Cuevas]

Oh, count on it dying, by the way. I've had it die 13/15 times. It seems my opponents have zero interest in letting something like that live.

[Lord Tyrant peers]

I have only used my animantarax twice but both times it hasn't died. I use it more as a heavy weakener on the way in so my cetrati brick/gators get the job done. saying that though my SA's kill count in those 2 games is: Kodiak,Torch, Woldwarden all but 2 hp from the gunwold light(dunno the name) and PBaldur

[gaminguy]

Oh, count on it dying, by the way. I've had it die 13/15 times. It seems my opponents have zero interest in letting something like that live.

Something to that, mine has yet to survive a game that I've won.

[PG_Chris Cuevas]

Something to that, mine has yet to survive a game that I've won.

As of tonight its added to its survival rate quite a bit . I'm at 19 games with it and death ratio is 15/19. Even had its first caster kill today against Kraye at the colossal release event. This time it was; blood mark + feat, snipe + aiming turtle took Kraye by the second shot.

Interestingly enough, I've changed its standard deployment from smack in the middle of my battle lines, to anchoring a flank. On the flank, it seems to run across less things that can kill it in one activation, and still has the range to take aimed shots at juicy targets.

[Sheer_Falacy]

In my most recent game, the turtle got stuck behind an objective due to poor placement on my behalf. Poor placement might have been too strong a word as I was actually leaving some space for my gators to do their thing. In that same game, the turn after it was stuck behind the objective the celestial fulcrum scored a critical hit on it and froze it. So the SA literally was glued to the same spot for 3 turns.

Battle engines are immune to Stationary.

[PG_Chris Cuevas]

Battle engines are immune to Stationary

Yeah, caught that a bit after the battle. Its amazing how many little things there are to forget.

[Rapier]

Based on experiencing of playing with it; how viable is it? I have the Skorne battle box. I'm currently looking at expanding my skorne primarily into models I happen to like - giant turtle is up their on my list; if it seems like a giant turkey rather than a badass turtle though I'll probably expand in a different direction.

Does it have any value not played with Rasheeth? (He's not on my list :P); I like Morgual - eMorgual, Mordikaar, Zaal, Naraash and Xerixs - which of these will be getting the most out of it? To lower the cost of buying into the faction I'll be using gators + taskmaster (and I know that makes Rasheeth even better). I'm also planning to run Ferox.

[Rynth]

Based on experiencing of playing with it; how viable is it?

Depends on your meta and how much support you're willing to put into it. If I had to give it a number grade it would range from between 2/10(against lots of small based infantry) and 5/10(against a lot of large based models) by itself. However, we're a synergy faction so very few things should every be by itself and the Animantarax is no exception.
IMO, there are 3 synergy pieces that substantially reduce the Animantarax's deficiencies; the Cyclops Raider, the Extoller and the Basilisk Krea. The Raider provides Snipe. 10 RNG isn't great, 14 RNG is quite a bit better. Plus the Raider provides another quality attack to drop on targets. The Extoller gives Magical Weapon to all the Animantarax's weapons(sometimes this can surprise some people), but more importantly Eyeless Sight. Denying Concealment and Stealth is like a RAT buff. The Krea offers two somewhat difficult to exploit DEF debuffs. The animus requires getting close without engaging, the gun requires a living target; either pushes the Animantarax's accuracy nicely. I believe the Animantarax needs any 2 of those models to really earn its keep but really shines when you can get all three.

Does it have any value not played with Rasheeth? (He's not on my list :P); I like Morgual - eMorgual, Mordikaar, Zaal, Naraash and Xerixs - which of these will be getting the most out of it? To lower the cost of buying into the faction I'll be using gators + taskmaster (and I know that makes Rasheeth even better). I'm also planning to run Ferox.

IMO, the 3 casters who run it best are(in roughly this order):
Hexeris2(DEF debuff and additional attacks)
Rasheth(ARM debuff)
Xerxis(Damage buff and DEF/ARM buff)

All the casters can benefit from the Animantarax, if for nothing else than a huge model to hide behind, but those three offer the most, IMO.

[FeydRautha]

SA is 9 points but can take at least 2-7+ points of dedicated support to run "correctly." Most notably, a Raider for Snipe and Extoller for Eyeless.

Like virtually anything, you buff / support it and it gets better. Run independently, it's going to get downed in one activation by a mediocre heavy jack / beast.

[Silopolis]

It looks awesome, though! Damnit, why couldn't this thing have been better!

The gun seems nice, but way lame compared to the other Battle Engines' guns (save the Throne, but even that has pretty sweet spells). The spears are embarrassing. The tail's nice. But the Rage token mechanic is pretty bad, since if an opponent decides to hurt it, he'll most likely spend the time to kill it.

The interactions with Black Spot have me intrigued, though; since it can choose melee attacks as its Black Spot attacks, that means it can get free tail strikes. Really, the difference between the SA with and without eHexeris is shocking, at least on paper.

I'm tempted to buy one at some point because it looks so awesome. I'll wait til I'm done with my Morghoul/Zaal plan and ready to invest in more ranged attacks and eHexeris.

[Jake the Dog]

Anyone considered using the Savage's animus on it?
It can use Rage token boosting only when needed.

[Rynth]

Anyone considered using the Savage's animus on it?
It can use Rage token boosting only when needed.

Rage tokens can only boost melee attack/damage, and the SA, P+S 16 tail be damned, does not want to be in melee. It is all about the gun. At range it does well against most heavies and pretty good against most medium based models. In melee it has two pathetic weapons that won't scratch the paint on most heavies/mediums until it has a few rage tokens. It lacks the DEF, ARM and Health to want to be in melee, especially with a heavy as almost any of them can kill it without working too hard.
The rage tokens are a nice bonus that will pay off if it ever has to do melee. However, putting the Siege Animantarax into melee is a gross misuse of the model and the recourses used to buff it's melee(except for when board position et al dictate otherwise).

[Silopolis]

But the gun isn't shut down when it's in melee, am I right? I might be misinterpreting the Battle Platform rule, but can't it fire out of melee?

Would the Savage's animus work for Rage tokens at all? I don't have it in front of me.

[gaminguy]

Yes, and yes. In no way shape or form does that make it melee worthy.

In theory with rage tokens and Black Spot it can make two P+S 13 attacks and 5 P+S 19 attacks and that isn't terrible, but the odds of it living to use the tokens even once are slim.

[Rapier]

Can it be healed at all?

[elpolloloco]

It can be healed only by models with the repair ability.

[Rynth]

Can it be healed at all?

Yes and No.
Like, IIRC, all battle engines can be healed by models with the repair ability, so he is healable. Currently, Skorne has no such models, so he isn't healable.

[Silopolis]

Yes and No.
Like, IIRC, all battle engines can be healed by models with the repair ability, so he is healable. Currently, Skorne has no such models, so he isn't healable.

This, to me, is a major oversight with all Hordes battle engines (though, can the Shifting Stones heal the Celestial Fulcrum?). Especially for Animantarax and the Throne, which are both living models, they should have edited in a rule that allowed healing effects to affect Battle Engines.

And then given us a healing effect we could use with it, since ours (warlocks and Paingiver Beast Handlers) only work with warbeasts. While models with Repair are universally useful in Warmachine, they'd only be useful when paired with Battle Engines in Hordes.

[Rynth]

This, to me, is a major oversight with all Hordes battle engines (though, can the Shifting Stones heal the Celestial Fulcrum?). Especially for Animantarax and the Throne, which are both living models, they should have edited in a rule that allowed healing effects to affect Battle Engines.

Oversight? Doubtful since half of the Battle Engines can be healed. I think PP overbalanced the SA. Getting powered up by damage and the healed up and then powered up again might have proven too powerful in their playtesting .

[Silopolis]

Oversight? Doubtful since half of the Battle Engines can be healed. I think PP overbalanced the SA. Getting powered up by damage and the healed up and then powered up again might have proven too powerful in their playtesting .

Considering that most reports I've read starring the Animantarax show it getting killed in the same round that it first gets damaged, I'm not sure that's that big an issue.

But for example, the War Wagon can't be healed/repaired, and it doesn't gain anything from getting damaged. Just because Trollbloods don't have a Repair model in their lineup. Meanwhile, Khador's Battle Carriage (or whatever it's called) is just as survivable and can be repaired like crazy.

[FeydRautha]

Honestly after thinking about it for a while, you're probably better off taking a great number of things rather than trying to make the SA work. Maybe years from now in Mk3 it will get better. Until then, it looks nice (tail could be a little bigger). Beyond that, you really end up trying too hard to support it for it to be worth its points.

People will win games with it because given that this game is about modified DICE rolls for the most part - you can win with almost anything if you roll the correct number enough times and your opponent doesn't. It's not worthless - but is it cost effective? Compared to our other choices, no.

I'd rather have a Cannoneer, Rievers, or some Catapults / Riever Guns than a SA most of the time.

[SalsaShark]

I just got a SA. I'll try it out. At least the model is sexy and I got it for a steal.