help!

[origarmi chicken]

I'm pretty new to warmachine and don't have that big an army.
I'm normally losing my games and I'm not sure if its my lists or if I'm just a bad player.
I already have the menoth part of the 2 player battle box the menoth starter box, 1 casaals of menoth, a min unit of cleansers and UA and pFeora
If you could tell me what I need to get it would be a big help, thanks

[LordSnotrag]

Standard first response: check out Choir. Get Choir. Love Choir.

I'll leave it to more recent players to continue.

[Alzer]

What game size are you running at?

Don't feel discouraged if you lose, sometimes it can bum you out. I lose about 75% of my games at least (Don't really keep track)

It's important to consider what tactics you like and what you feel you need when you're putting a list together. A few quick considerations

-Can you deal with high def/ stealthed infantry
-Can you deal with multiple high-arm targets
-Can you deal with multiple jacks/beasts

And more on just the flavor/ Preference side

-Do you want to focus on shooting or melee?
-Would you like to win by Assassination, Scenario, or Attrition?
-Robots or Mans?
-How important is a strong feat to you?

Personally I like a mix of everything. I like to have Shooting and Melee covered, I like fielding several Jacks AND Units in the same list and I prefer more jack-of-all-trade models to specialists.

So you have from my reckoning
-2 High Exemplar Kreoss
-2 Crusaders
-2 Repenters
-1 Vanquisher
-1 Revenger
-Feora Priestess of the flame
-Min Cleansers
-Cleanser Officer
-Vassal of Menoth
-Exemplar Cinerators
-Min Choir.

I see a good number of options with that list of models. I'd strive to use a LOT of jacks with a bit of infantry support for now. Something along the lines of

pKreoss
-Vanquisher
-Crusader
-Repenter
(This is your core, gives you two strong anti-heavy options and two strong anti-infantry options, and the Repenter is a pretty decent Assassin as well)
Max Bastions
(The Bastions form your Front Line, give them Defender's Ward and they become VERY tough to kill, don't be afraid to let them die, try to get your jacks in position behind them to capitalize on their deaths)
Choir
Vassal
(Choir and Vassal are trick to use well, figure out when you need Enliven/Passage versus when you need Battle/Ancilary Attack)

[Rednikkums]

Being a new player myself the thing I struggled with them most was protecting my caster so he didn't get assassinated. So my question/comments are basically whats been said already.

From My experience limited as it may be.

1. Get a Choir

2.Protect your caster but don't be wimpy about it (ie don't hold him back if you see a opportunity to win with him take it)

3. Your going to lose and to be honest it's usually because you weren't aware that a enemy unit could do something and it ends up screwing you over(ie cygnar's lightning arching) that has gotten me killed more times the not.

Now then I played a 25pt game against Cygnar the other day and I won which just so happens I played this game right after I got my choir coincidence? I think not! xD

[origarmi chicken]

Thanks, so I need the choir
I was thinking about deliverers or a redeemer.
Maybe some errrants.
Even without the choir I like the vanquisher and vassal on kreoss' feat turn, but with the choir that will make it better.
to protect my caster, what should I use? A unit, solo or jack?

[loramer]

Warmachine has a pretty steep learning curve, especially if you are playing against players that have been playing for a while. Expect to lose for a while. Knowledge is key in this game and the more that you play the more knowledge you will acquire. Veteran players have a very distinct advantage and the only way to get better is to play more.

With that being said, if you are looking for things to purchase to have more competitive lists, I would take a look through some of the old threads on the community forum. There are a lot of threads pertaining to what our best models are, or what should be purchased early on, or what models people like the most.

I would not suggest the deliverers or redeemers early on. They are very effective on pKreoss' feat turn, but other than that there are better options for models that you can use with any caster, or, more specivically for you, use effectively with pKreoss or pFeora. The Reckoner is widely regarded as our best non-character jack and I will use either it or a vanquisher in pretty much every list I play - often times I will use both. That would be my first suggestion.

My second suggestion would be for a unit that works really well with a wide variety of casters. Temple flameguard are who I would go with here. They won't do a ton of damage for you, but they will keep your jacks safe to let them do the heavy lifting for you. They are insanely good with defenders ward on them. The errants+UA would be my second suggestion for a unit. They have a lot of built in denial and can do good amounts of damage for you. Zeaolts+monolith bearer are a lot of fun also - seeing the look on opponents faces when you tell them that they basically can't die this turn is priceless.

After that, I would suggest the Avatar. He is one of the top 3 beast/jacks in game, and may possibly be the best. He doesn't really shine with either of the two caster that you have right now, but he's no slouch with them either.

Most of my caster kills have come from either the Avatar or the Reckoner. Having them in your lists will make caster kills a lot easier.

My last suggestion will be to proxy anything that you are thinking of buying before you buy it. Play a couple of games against a friend using empty bases and see if you like the models before buying them. there is nothing more frustrating than buying models and finding out they don't work well with your playstyle and then just watching them collect dust.

Stick with it through the learning process and you will start getting your wins. It took me about a year before I was winning more than I was losing. Even now, whenever I start playing a new caster, I will generally lose about 5-10 games before I start getting the wins at a good rate with them. There are still some casters - I'm looking at you Amon! - that I can't win very often with. Practice will get you your wins.

[dchadpage]

List of stuff to buy and the order to buy it in for Menoth players:
1. Battlebox or 2 player starter set
2. Choir
3. Vassal of Menoth
4. Infantry/tarpit unit - Errants with UA if playing a caster with Defender's Ward or Errants (with UA), Temple Flameguard (UA optional), or Holy Zealots (with UA) if not.
5. Second caster - pSeverius is the most often recommended by my observation, and I agree with it.
6. Reckoner
7. Vanquisher if you bought the battlebox instead of the 2 player kit
8. Covenant of Menoth
9. Wracks
10. Avatar
11. Everything else.

[loramer]

Covenant is a great suggestion. That model has won me many games. It alone can thwart your heretic opponent's plans.

[origarmi chicken]

Thanks everyone for the help, ill be proxying some stuff now.