New player with 3 casters in mind - 35 pts

[Nevamore]

Hey, This will be my first hordes army (was thinking of going circle for a while but it seemed like too much of a headache), and I was thinking of starting off with 3 warcasters, making 3 lists which use mostly the same assortment of models. The casters are pMorghoul, Zaal and Xerxes, I like the idea of having different casters with different playstyles (beast heavy, infantry heavy and the face pounder respectively). I've come up with the lists for morg and zaal already, but I'm wondering if I could get some feedback on what to use with Xerses, using mostly the models in the other 2 lists, though I was thinking of adding in some medium based infantry (either gatormen or cetriti).

Supreme Aptimus Zaal & Kovaas -5
Titan Gladiator 8
Bronzeback Titan 10
Immortals (Leader and 5 Grunts) 5
Nihilators (Leader and 9 Grunts) 8
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts) 2
Ancestral Guardian 3
Hakaar the Destroyer 4
35

Master Tormentor Morghoul -7
Bronzeback Titan 10
Molik Karn 11
Titan Gladiator 8
Aptimus Marketh 3
Nihilators (Leader and 9 Grunts) 8
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts) 2
35

Firtly what do you think of these lists? I'll be starting a map campaign soon (against khador, trolls and cygnar) hence the need for lists with different casters, and it'll be easier if I didn't have to buy half the skorne range to field them. Its lucky that skorne has a lot of units and beasts who work well with anyone. Anyway, any help or comments will be appreciated (I hate trolls with a passion and hope each list can stand up to edoomie and his roid raging smurf brigade).

Cheers.

[Leeb]

I'm not a huge fan of the Zaal list. I think its alot of beasts. That is not to say its bad, but last stand makes lights into heavies and itsa god way of trading cheap models for more expensive. It's hard to last stand a bronzeback. The Gladiator is also not a must have with Zaal since Cyclops ae pretty quick and Zaal from my play is a great counter puncher. It's nice to jam with the intent of losing guys just to feat and make the counter punch really hurt. I don't think it is a terrible list, but less points on beasts and more points in immortals are support like extoller would be good.

I like the Morghul list, but it screams for an extoller soulward. The extoller makes you play alot like legion with running through forests and dropping the hammer. For a third caster If you have character restrictions both Makeda's area bit out since Molik Karn is spoken for. If your ok with changing Karn for a or Tiberion you can go for P or E Makeda for a third warlock. I think E-Makeda is a bit simpler to use well, but either one is great. Molik Karn and a Gladiator set up the heavy portion of the list and then nialators and PGBH are also good with either. Against trolls I would definitely reommend an agonizer. Really the agonizer is great against anything, but trolls have alot of power buffs and reducing there strength is a big deal.

All your lists are very melee heavy so you have to worry aboutanti-melee type lists. Trolls and Khador should be ok, but Cygnar can be a real pain unless you can stack some armor and push the engagement. I would invest in an extoller and an agonizer.

Trolls: Can hit real hard and you can't get down in the piece trade. Don't let him 1 round 2 heavies with 1 of his.

Khador: You will most likely get the first strike on parts of the army, but other parts will be fast and hard to hit. Be ready to dael with defense 17 and be open to slamming your own models. It's not fun to slam your own heavy, but a gladiator can get a long slam on another target and take out those pesky def 17's

Cygnar: Press the engagement and jam with troops. Some items in there list have armor, but most are fairly easy to take out. A centurion with arcane shield is almost pointless to try and budge. The BB with Morghul would do the job, but in alot of cases its better to focus your attack on the softer parts and then squeeze the centurion later. Stormwall is totally different.

Good luck

[Nevamore]

Thanks for the feedback Leeb, I've made a few alterations and come up with these.

Supreme Aptimus Zaal & Kovaas -5
Cyclops Savage 5
Cyclops Savage 5
Immortals (Leader and 9 Grunts) 8
Nihilators (Leader and 9 Grunts) 8
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts) 2
Ancestral Guardian 3
Ancestral Guardian 3
Hakaar the Destroyer 4
Extoller Soulward 2
35

More warrior models for the feat and another guardian for zaal to feed souls to. Threw in a an extoller for support (and that sweet eye beam), and replaced the 2 heavys with 2 lights (suicide bombers).

Master Tormentor Morghoul -7
Bronzeback Titan 10
2 x Cyclops Savage 10
Titan Gladiator 8
Nihilators (Leader and 9 Grunts) 8
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts) 2
Agonizer 2
Extoller Soulward 2
35

I took out Molik Khan, seeing as 2 cyclops do basically the same job for the same points but are harder to remove (and I'd already have them from the battle box). I also took out marketh and put in a regular extoller and an agonizer for some sweet support peices (I think shutting down jacks and weakening warbeasts might be more useful than an extra spell a turn with morghoul).

As for the 3rd list, I see your point about Makeda, but for some reason I can't quite put my finger on I'm not a huge fan of either caster (maybe that will chance with Makeda3 comes out with her bigger sword and guardian buddies). So with Xerxes I've come up with the following rough list if you could give us any pointers:

Tyrant Xerxis 5
Bronzeback Titan 10
Titan Gladiator 8
Cataphract Cetrati (Leader and 5 Grunts) 11
Nihilators (Leader and 9 Grunts) 8

This comes to 32 points, leaving 3 points for either marketh (character restrictions are up so this might be a good home for him), or some beast handlers. I guess marketh can help mitigate the lack of enrage from the handlers by cycling fury, but I dont think taking 2 heavies would be such a great idea without them. And if I do take the handlers, I could always fill up the last 1 point with some swamp gobbers; they'll help keep the brick safe until it can get in some faces.

[Leeb]

Since your not running a Makeda I would feel good in your Morghul list putting Molik Karn back in or swapping 1 Savage out for a Brute. The Brute will be a life saver for Morghul and getting knocked down. Morghul is going to struggle to manage that many beasts and if you do have that many you really need max beast handlers. Morghul is a first strike type list where you deliver such a punishing blow the opponent really can't respond. The Agonizer probably won't work with him since he will have alot of fury issues trying to get that thing up to speed to really affect the battle.

The Zaal list looks solid to me. I like Savages with Zaal. I looked through the rules again to make sure I'm playing this correctly and I think you can reave the fury from a model destroyed by last stand. That means you can run Zaal out of fury with the idea that a Savage is going to go cruise missle and you can take the fury back to be safe with transfers. The only thing i would like better in the Zaal list would be a Raider for 1 savage. The Extoller and Zaal can be way more effective by having snipe and you get some range options in the list.

Marketh is great for Xerxis or Morghul. I think you need the PGBH with Xerxis since 5 fury is just not going to cut it and being able to leech the BB and then condition the gladiator should let you run both beasts well. I have personally struggled with Xerxis and how to run him at 35 points. I think your list is pretty good, but not having an agonizer in the Brick really hurts. I also think you want to stack the brick for defense which means taking a cannoneer and agonizer to debuff strength a huge amount. I have a new list I am going to run with Xerxis at 35 points, but it has not been play tested and its all just in my head:

Xerxis (5)
Cannoneer (9)
Tiberion (11)
Cetrati (11)
PGBH(2)
Agonizer (2)
Nialators (5)

It will struggle on infantry swarms and it lacks that key hit high defense element I like, but its a strong brick and still can hit like a train. I like Xerxis alot better at 50 points when I can have all the tools in to deal with anything as the brick just grinds forward. Tiberion with defenders ward, agonizer, and Cannoneer animus aura is equivalent armor 27 or 29 on feat turn.

[Silopolis]

Is two Savages enough Fury for Zaal? I realize that Last Stand and the feat make up for a lot, but Two Savages only produce 6 Fury if you max them both out every round.