Storm Troll Animus and Madrak Rathrok's Awakening

[NinjaSpank]

I posted this in the Troll's forum and thought that maybe I should have posted this here. I apologize for both double posting and for bringing up another electroleap question.

So, with the new ruling re: Electroleaps in this thread: http://privateerpressforums.com/show...nd-Electroleap

Does this mean that models that die from the electroleaps fuel Awakening? The storm trolls animus states specifically that "This models weapon gains electroleap" and the awakening rule says "...destroys a living enemy model with this weapon."

My gut says no, but my heart says "maybe".

[PG_Minted1985]

That ruling only clarifies that Madrak would be the model causing the damage.

Look again at the electroleap wording:-

Electroleap - When a model is hit by a weapon with Electro Leap, you can have lighting arc to the nearest model within 4 inches of the model hit, ignoring the attacking model. The model the lighting arcs to suffers an unboostable POW 10 electrical damage roll.

You can see that although the electroleap is an effect of the weapon, it is not a attack, similar to Magic Bullet. It provides an additional damage roll not from Madrak's weapon, but from Madrak himself. So Rathrok's Awakening will not activate, just as a Pyre Troll's Continuous Fire effect will not happen on a Magic Bullet resolution.

[bakaryu]

The wording on Rathrok's Awakening however is when this model destroys an enemy model with this weapon.

If the weapon gains electroleap and a model is destroyed by the electroleap effect, then it can certainly be argued that the model has been destroyed by this weapon. Also to quote poeticruse's ruling:

Electro leap works with eye of the storm. Electro leap is a damage roll made by the model with electro leap. This overrules the previous ruling and understanding, and means that abilities like prey will apply on electro leap.

I can certainly see how it could be interpreted in this fashion, I can also see however how it could be ruled against as well.

[DarkLegacy]

The weapon hits the first model, causing the electro leap. The model is making the damage roll for the electro leap, not the weapon. Awakening would not trigger because it is not the weapon destroying an enemy model (the electro leap).

You'd still get Awakening off the first model (the one hit by the weapon), of course.

[Beckman]

If pThagrosh kills a model with his Ash Cloud from Rapture, it should be the same situation, right? Has there ever been a rules clarification for weapons that have effects that kill additional stuff as to whether they count as having been attributed to the weapon or not?

[Sheer_Falacy]

The weapon hits the first model, causing the electro leap. The model is making the damage roll for the electro leap, not the weapon. Awakening would not trigger because it is not the weapon destroying an enemy model (the electro leap).

You'd still get Awakening off the first model (the one hit by the weapon), of course.

Except electro leap is an ability on the weapon, not the model.

This is one of those cases where there's no instant answer. This is also one of those cases where, in that ruling, he explicitly said he wasn't setting precedent except for that specific interaction, so you can't infer anything from it.

They should probably just errata in the Explosivo wording to these things if they want them to not trigger stuff.

[DarkLegacy]

If pThagrosh kills a model with his Ash Cloud from Rapture, it should be the same situation, right? Has there ever been a rules clarification for weapons that have effects that kill additional stuff as to whether they count as having been attributed to the weapon or not?

If it was the case, Thagrosh1 could kill an entire unit if they were clumped up enough. Ugh.

[DemonCalibre]

You can see that although the electroleap is an effect of the weapon, it is not a attack, similar to Magic Bullet. It provides an additional damage roll not from Madrak's weapon, but from Madrak himself. So Rathrok's Awakening will not activate, just as a Pyre Troll's Continuous Fire effect will not happen on a Magic Bullet resolution.

Actually, Unless I missed a Memo, we do not know if Electro Leap is an attack. It is apart of a much greater unresolved issue, of things that generate stuff, and what do they inherit. This is much like the old attack timing question a deep seeded issues with massive implications. If it is an attack, all sorts of crazy combos come out, if it isn't an attack a bunch of stuff that should work doesn't work.(Like Errants won't be able to self sac e-leap, Extollers won't be able to collect souls from e-Leap, many on death abilities won't trigger etc)

[NinjaSpank]

You can see that although the electroleap is an effect of the weapon, it is not a attack, similar to Magic Bullet. It provides an additional damage roll not from Madrak's weapon, but from Madrak himself. So Rathrok's Awakening will not activate, just as a Pyre Troll's Continuous Fire effect will not happen on a Magic Bullet resolution.

See, but the difference is that the Pyre troll animus says "target model" not "target models weapon". And aside from that magic bullet states "targets next ranged attack", whereas Rathrok says "this weapon". To me, this means that your example isnt really the same.

I could totally see a ruling that while the axe is generating the extra attacks, the e-leaps themselves are from the model. But I would rather have something official on that rather than assume I'm right or wrong.

[Sheer_Falacy]

See, but the difference is that the Pyre troll animus says "target model" not "target models weapon". And aside from that magic bullet states "targets next ranged attack", whereas Rathrok says "this weapon". To me, this means that your example isnt really the same.

I could totally see a ruling that while the axe is generating the extra attacks, the e-leaps themselves are from the model. But I would rather have something official on that rather than assume I'm right or wrong.

Storm troll animus does say target model's melee weapons gain electroleap. I'm not sure what the pyre troll animus has to do with it.

[NinjaSpank]

Storm troll animus does say target model's melee weapons gain electroleap. I'm not sure what the pyre troll animus has to do with it.

Sorry, I meant to quote this in my response;

You can see that although the electroleap is an effect of the weapon, it is not a attack, similar to Magic Bullet. It provides an additional damage roll not from Madrak's weapon, but from Madrak himself. So Rathrok's Awakening will not activate, just as a Pyre Troll's Continuous Fire effect will not happen on a Magic Bullet resolution.

[poeticruse]

Actually, Unless I missed a Memo,(...). It is apart of a much greater unresolved issue, of things that generate stuff, and what do they inherit.

DemonCalibre is right, and has not missed a memo.