Interested in Circle

[raizieldragon]

So far I've only played Cygnar, but am interested in Khador and Trolls, and now more recently, Circle.

I've always liked druids, nature, golems, Princess Mononoke, lightning (one reason I like Cygnar), and such, so Circle seems right up my alley as far as flavor; but what about playing?

I've heard that the main thing Circle has going for it is maneuverability, which is all well and good, but how do you turn that into striking power?

I read some of each of the "So you want to play Circle?" threads, and the first thing I get caught up on is the idea of choosing either the Constructs or the Furries as the main focus of your main army (yes, a competitive army usually has some of each), and couldn't find anything that gave a good comparison/explanation of their differences.

What does each type of army bring to the table? It seems like the Wolves (especially Feral Warpwolf) bring speed and punch, so I kind of got that down (but feel free to let me know if there is another aspect to them that I'm missing). What do the Constructs bring? Durability? Durability is nice I suppose, but I tend to prefer a more offensive, assassin-run type of strategy, which seems like the Wolves would be more my play style.

I'm a huge fan of how the Gargantuans look and play (I'm looking at getting two of each for Cygnar, Khador, and yes even the Trolls), but I'm a little hesitant on the Woldwrath. I've heard some good things about how it plays, which is nice, but it definitely isn't as imposing or appealing as I would have liked. I especially am not a fan of those big shoulder bricks. How does he look if you leave them off? Can you leave them off?

I think that covers most of my questions. It basically boils down to: how do the Wolf vs Construct play styles compare, which is better for going for the assassination-run, and which is more effectively run/supported by the factions support models (I've read that "The Stones" are an auto-include for fury management, but not sure what else they do, or which side of the faction they are better for)?

[TheNoob]

As a Circle noobie I'll throw my 2 cents out here

Firstly, only very specific warlocks run pure construct or furry armies (Baldur (p and e) for the contrusts and Kaya (p and e) for the furrys). Most other warlocks find room to have a mix. The Wold Guardian's animus is great for our warlocks that get hit at range a lot, Kromac and Morvannha jump to mind. Our spell slinger locks like the Warden/Megalith for Geomancy (1 fury spell casting from the construct is good). The woldwatcher is good with anyone with an armour buff bc he makes a great objective holder with Stone form. The furrys are all good at moving and killing. The satyrs are a little more pillow-fisted than their warpwolf brothers, but they have a lot of power attack/movement on their side.

Basically, construct armies are gonna take the alpha strike and then hope to punch back, the furrys are gonna get the alpha strike (except in very rare cases) and hope not to get punched back.

The woldwrath is too early to tell. We have only seen very few pics of a half painted one, we will just need to see. The stats seem to make it a good choice above 50 pts. I have been trying to figure out how to get it into 35 pts, but it seems like a) 4 fury is too low for a 20 point model b) it really benefits having a lot of magical attacks in the army and with 20 out of 35 gone, its hard to make the animus really shine. But i am sure there will be people that disagree with me on that fact.

[PG_fildrigar]

"Fuzzies," people. The word you're looking for is "Fuzzies." Are you trying to give me nightmares?

Constructs are slower and tougher than the fuzzies, but lack some of the hitting power. Yes, the Guardian has a high P+S ( for Circle ) but with a lower Fury value it can't put out quite as much hurt ( in general ) as a Warpwolf. ( You can mitigate some of that with a free charge. )

Yes, Shifting Stones are the closest thing we have to autoinclude. There is a thread with pictures showing some of their uses. ( I know, I do need to clean it up and add a few more pictures, but it does a good job of showing most of their main uses. )

[Asdrubael]

I would say we're the alpha strike faction. Simply put, it means we can get to you first, and when we arrive, we'll hurt you severely. The key is knowing your warlock. We have some very diverse options in that regard. If you want to hit hard with Baldur... you'll probably be disappointed. He doesn't bring a lot for our hard-hitting options. He plays a totally different game than that. Now, if you took eKaya or Kromac, you're going to get there first every time, and you're going to rip things to pieces upon arrival (Warpath, Dogpile, Forced Evolution, Wild Aggression, Inviolable Resolve). They're designed as delivery warlocks that augment the offensive capacity of your models. Some warlocks, pKrueger, Mohsar, and Morvahna, are more about themselves. All three can bring some serious hurt to the opponent on their own while offering a few key buffs to friendly units and warbeasts. eKrueger and Grayle specialize at assassination. They want to cut down the enemy warlock, and their army is there to assist them to that end. Both have one or two things they can use to assist their friendly models, but they're mostly designed to find a kill angle and get there. I don't know enough about pKaya to comment on her. In my eyes, she's god-awful terrible, but she has a following on the forums. The last two eBaldur and Cassius kind of play their own game. Cassius can be an army-consuming monster in the right matchup, but he can also succeed at attrition to some degree. eBaldur is just... weird. He plays a lot like Khador, but he's arguably best with fuzzy warbeasts that have great DEF and can have great ARM as a result of his RotE spell. He looks like an assassin until you realize he's slower than molasses, and he has an odd mechanic that has played out as more a hindrance than a boon in my games with him.

Hope that synopsis helps. My STRONGEST piece of advice is to investigate our warlocks closely, choose about three of them, and play them as thoroughly as possible. They'll offer you an opportunity to see how the other pieces work while not overwhelming you. Our warlocks have such unique styles of play that it's hard to try to master them all at once, because the tricks you learn with Krueger won't work with Grayle or Kromac.

Look at the eKrueger No Quarter tier list for a great wold-based assassination list. At a recent tournament, I assassinated two of the three opponents I faced using that list. And, I should have assassinated the third, but my opponent misinformed me on how the Basilisk Krea's aura work (it doesn't work against spells!). It's great at being surprisingly tricky in terms of movement shenanigans, and his feat makes objectives very easy to take and hold.

I've already addressed the Woldwrath elsewhere. For someone who is willing to buy two Mountain Kings and two Conquests, you should be jumping for joy at the prospects of two Woldwraths. It's rules are night and day better than both of those collosals/gargantuans. The model might not be your thing, and that's fine, but the rules are fantastic. I'm also not sure what isn't imposing about something that hits so hard it leaves a 4" AOE of knockdown in its wake... but to each their own.

Other things that come to mind as potential autoincludes are druids, gorax (if you field warpwolves), Warpwolf Stalker (or Ghetorix, more recently), and Gallows Groves (depending on warlock).

[raizieldragon]

Ok, so sounds like I want to go with an all "Fuzzies" army for the (practically) guaranteed alpha-strike. I'm assuming the typical strategy is to try to use the maneuverability to go around the majority of the opposing army (especially annoying tarpit infantry) and then try to bite the 'lock/'caster's head off?

How would the Woldwrath fit into an all-fuzzies army? Sounds like my warlock would be either Kaya or Kromac, as the starters guide says they are the best for fuzzy-heavy armies. I've thoroughly enjoyed building armies around the gargantuans so far (they are supposed to be centerpieces, not a point-for-point replacement of other models) and I'd hate to leave one out of an army I was thinking of making.

Also, I haven't actually seen the stats of the Woldwrath. I've seen them mentioned and hinted at here on the forums, but haven't actually found them yet. I've seen some of its capabilities mentioned (lightning clouds on its shots, KD AOE on its punches) but other than that, not sure exactly how it stacks up or what role it would play in an army. General consensus seems to be "better than the Mountain King", but it seems like as much hate as MK is getting, all the Collossals/Gargantuans are going to be.

It's rules might be great, but looks have played into how I feel about the Colossals/Gargantuans so far. I'll wait to see how the painted version looks, but I'm still probably gonna try to avoid using those huge shoulders if at all possible; and maybe try to give it more of a Mountain King pose. I was blown away by the looks of both the Stormwall and the Mountain King and just got lucky I guess that my main faction just happened to get one of the better Colossals so far. Sort of sad that the Mountain King is considered so terrible by many, especially as awesome as he looks, but I'm not too worried about his performance, as my playgroup isn't overly competitive. Besides, why worry that Mulg is better than MK, when you can have Mulg and 2 MK?

Lastly, I wasn't referring to Woldwraths stats when I said he wasn't imposing; more so just how he looks. But as has been pointed out, he was unpainted. Hopefully the final product will look much better, and I'll likely get to see some peoples attempts at assembling him without shoulder pads, once he is released.

[Asdrubael]

You should definitely check out the stats. They're awesome. I get the non-competitive meta thing, and I think that's awesome. Mine fluctuates between hyper competitive and beer-and-pretzels, and I really enjoy the latter as I can use models I like exclusively based on their looks as opposed to being cutting edge efficient. It's nice pulling out my Tharn Ravagers on occassion.

The Woldwrath, unfortunately, will struggle to fit with Kromac. His best buffs won't work on it as a result of Spellward and not being permitted to move outside of normal movement. With eKaya, he isn't an ideal fit, but he can work. Dogpile will still boost his speed significantly since it is an offensive upkeep. If you want a good mix, I'd actually suggest Mohsar or pKrueger. pKrueger will love the Woldwrath, but will otherwise want fuzzy warbeasts (Feral is awesome with him). Mohsar is very similar, but you might want a Geomancer in some cases... tough call. Mohsar's innate synergy with the Gnarlhorn, and the Gnarlhorn's animus being the best animus for the Woldwrath out of the few that can benefit it, means that a Mohsar, Woldwrath, Gnarlhorn combo seems like an awesome combo. Mind you, I haven't play-tested any of this, so you might discover combos that are way better than those outlined.

Not sure why, but I love the shoulder pads. To each his own though. I think I misinterpretted your first post. Didn't mean to sound aggressive/combative.

Best of luck, and welcome to Circle. The learning curve can be harsh, but the faction is very rewarding in the long run.

[raizieldragon]

Considering the Woldwrath is a wold (duh), I've decided to embrace the construct side of the faction and go with an all construct army, which means I'll be looking at Baldur1; maybe Baldur2. I haven't read up on them yet to compare them; but the newbie guide says Baldur1 is basically the only choice for an all construct army, so that's what I'll be looking into.

[raizieldragon]

Ooh. But eKrueger looks nice as well. I definitely like lots of lightning, and his construct theme force seems to be be well-liked.

[Lighten]

Yep, all-construct will be pBaldur, eBaldur, eKrueger theme force. Both Baldur themes generally allow all the constructs (and druids) and little else, so you'll get free bonuses. However, if you want living infantry, pBaldur in particular can run well out of theme with Bloodtrackers (among other options) and only construct beasts.

[raizieldragon]

Don't typically care for units/troops, though I see that your Druids are very popular, and bring some nice utility to the table.

[Mattho2k3]

Luckily Circle is a faction where you only need one unit not counting Shifting Stones.

[raizieldragon]

I think I've settled on eKreuger's Wake of Destruction Theme list. Whenever planning out armies, I always plan for a 100pt army, and then make smaller armies by removing models from the 100pt army, so I'm working on my 100pt list right now.

What mix of Wold Guardians and Woldwardens is a nice mix?

Right now my list is:
eKreuger
- Megalith
- Druids
- - Overseer
- Druids
- - Overseer (from Tier benefit)
Shifting Stones
- Stone Keeper
Shifting Stones
2x Blackclad Wayfarer
Druid Wilder
Lord of the Feast
Eiryss (tier allowed)

That's 37 points. If I plan to have 2 Woldwraths, that would add another 40(?) points, bringing the current total up to 77 points, giving me 23 to play with, which would be enough for a Woldwarden, a Wold Guardian, and 2 points left over for something random I probably missed.

I've read that, without fuzzies, this faction has trouble with high ARM (I'm used to it, coming from Cygnar, kings of the POW 10s), and that in this theme list, the Wold Guardian is the main beatstick, so should I leave the Woldwarden out for another Wold Guardian? That would leave me with only Megalith for Geomancy. Is that enough?

[TheNamelessOne]

If I am not completely mistaken, for warbeasts in a EKrueger WoD tierlist you can only choose NONCHARACTER constructs, so no Megalith here.

[PG_LEJKaya]

No Megalith allowed but I use 2 wardens and a Guardian at 35 and 50.
I don't like my 50 list though so am still experimenting.

[Dagowit]

[...] and 2 points left over for something random I probably missed.

Although I have yet to play Wake of Destruction, I suspect that 2 Gallows Groves might fit that spot niccely.
Or you could replace the Druid Wilder with 2 since she is not allowed in the Tier (besides, she is not that atractive due to all the SELF Animi on the Wolds which she cannot use)...

[raizieldragon]

Thanks for the input everyone. I must not have read his tier list closely enough and Forward Kommander doesnt have that theme integrated yet, so it didnt catch my mistake for me

Ill try to get an updated list up later tonight

[PG_fildrigar]

I usually want either 2 Wardens 1 Guardian or 2 Guardians 1 Warden. That doesn't help much, though.

[stupidmonkey]

I have seen some really great Assassinations with Kromac, some wolves, a gorax, and some shifting stones. IMO This is circle at it's greatest and most primal (pun intended). It is a thing of beauty to see a primal'd wolf teleport 10-20 inches... then advance 3 inches... then activate with auto boosted attack rolls and P+S 18 on a reach weapon.

[raizieldragon]

I'm so torn between one of the Baldurs and eKrueger. I like how much better Baldur1 works with his constructs and all his forest manipulation, I like how Baldur2 slowly buffs himself up until he's ready to teleport in for the assassination run, and I like how much lightning eKrueger brings as well as his free Druid UA but don't like his loss of Megalith.

Which one is going to have the most/best synergy with the Woldwrath? I know it wants lot of spellcasters, so any of them can work well with Druids and Woldstalkers, but which one works best?

[raizieldragon]

Ok, I think I'm FINALLY decided on Baldur1. The ability to buff a constructs STR to help with hard targets seems indispensible, while Baldur2 and eKrueger have nothing else to improve anti-ARM. It's nice being able to bring Megalith too.

I'll put a list up in list discussions here in a bit.