Noob help, 35 pts Ravyn

[Trukson]

Very new, not only to Retribution but to the game itself.
Love the look of the faction, exept for the jacks (perhaps with exception for Griffon), so was REALLY pleased to see that the Colossal is looking mighty fine!

In keeping with the shooting theme of this centrepiece I thought id go for Ravyn (I also really like her fluff), so id like some input as to make a good all-round list around these two.

Should I go Tier-list (I could get to Tier 3) or do I want to focus on other support than MHSF?

[PG_Emberwild]

Let see if I can remember "the" Ravyn list.

Discordia
MHSF + UA
Stormfall archers
Stormfall archers
Aiyana and Holt
eEiryss
MHA
MHA

I would stay away from the tier list at first. The general consensus is you will end up with too many models that you wouldn't use outside of the tier.

[Fateweaver]

That seems to be what happens with most of our original Tier Lists, which were if I'm remember correctly, the first tier lists to be written. Mastershake did an excellent write up for Ravyn:

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...n-List-Rundown

I'm going to be really trying to put it into practice as I get more into Ret. Right now I'm down the units of Stormfalls, but that should be fixed this weekend.

[Trukson]

Thanks for the advice and the link, very good read.
I am not necessarily looking for "the" list, but "a" list that wont suck a** and still contain heaps of coolness.

Also, I was asking for a list that includes Ravyn AND Hyperion (maybe I was a bit unclear in OP)

For example, heres what a Tier list would look like:

Ravyn
- Hyperion

3xmin MHSF
Skeryth
Narn

32/35 points. +1 to start the game, free Narn. Three cheap small units to roam around, Skeryth acting as a light jack but looking cooler, Narn is no Eiryss but he is free AND still three points to go (could add Eiryss, escorts to all units or bump one up to full strength or UA).

Heres something around what I was thinking if not going Tier:

Ravyn
- Hyperion

2xStormfall
Full Halberdier+UA
Arcanist
Artificer

35/35

Lots of pewpew, Halberdiers to tarpit or even beat face. Artificer for toolbox (could easily swap for Eiryss). No MHSF though (could probably swap out Halberdiers but that would leave very little melee)

[Fateweaver]

I haven't really thought about Hyperion for 35 points, as that's a pretty big commitment, but I'd probably go something like:

Ravyn
-Hyperion

Arcanist
2x Stormfalls
MHSF+UA
eEiryss

If you absolutely need to get into melee, the MHSF have Combined Melee, but I think LOS ignoring shooting here is going to be better, while you have Hyperion dealing with the harder melee targets. YMMV though, but that's what I'm going for if I'm playing Hype at 35. At 50 the choice becomes much easier, as I get my Pain Knight, and MHAs in there as well.

[Trukson]

Yeah it all boils down to the last couple of points (2-4 depending). Eiryss is definately up there along with a MHA.

I could also take out the Arcanist and squeeze in Aiyana&Holt For some buff goodness.

But that list you posted Fateweaver is pretty much what im starting to settle on.

[Trukson]

Yeah it all boils down to the last couple of points (2-4 depending). Eiryss is definately up there along with a MHA.

I could also take out the Arcanist and squeeze in Aiyana&Holt For some buff goodness.

But that list you posted Fateweaver is pretty much what im starting to settle on.

[joelker41]

I haven't really thought about Hyperion for 35 points, as that's a pretty big commitment, but I'd probably go something like:

Ravyn
-Hyperion

Arcanist
2x Stormfalls
MHSF+UA
eEiryss

If you absolutely need to get into melee, the MHSF have Combined Melee, but I think LOS ignoring shooting here is going to be better, while you have Hyperion dealing with the harder melee targets. YMMV though, but that's what I'm going for if I'm playing Hype at 35. At 50 the choice becomes much easier, as I get my Pain Knight, and MHAs in there as well.

This +1.

At 35 you.just want yo maximize what you do well and this certainly does that.

[Trukson]

The problem is that list is 36 points.

Dump the Arcanist? Feels a bit sketchy, is Eiryss really that good (this is an "all-comer list", I will be facing Hordes aswell)?

[Murkhadh]

The problem is that list is 36 points.

Dump the Arcanist? Feels a bit sketchy, is Eiryss really that good (this is an "all-comer list", I will be facing Hordes aswell)?

eEiryss isn't really taht good, she's WAY more than that good, she is hands down the best solo in the game.

[Fateweaver]

The problem is that list is 36 points.

Dump the Arcanist? Feels a bit sketchy, is Eiryss really that good (this is an "all-comer list", I will be facing Hordes aswell)?

Yeah, I mathed wrong, wouldn't have happened with an updated list building software :P. Just drop the Arcanist, being able to drop Upkeeps/Animi is better imo.

[Trukson]

...she is hands down the best solo in the game.

Bleh, boring with stuff that are so good you'd be stupid not to take them.

Ravyn
-Hyperion
2x Stormfalls
MHSF+UA
eEiryss

Time to start shopping then I guess!
Any tips for my first few games what to consider besides the obvious pew-pew thats been covered?
How do I protect Ravyn from Assassaination runs, just hide her behind Hyperion?

[Murkhadh]

Bleh, boring with stuff that are so good you'd be stupid not to take them.

Ravyn
-Hyperion
2x Stormfalls
MHSF+UA
eEiryss

Time to start shopping then I guess!
Any tips for my first few games what to consider besides the obvious pew-pew thats been covered?
How do I protect Ravyn from Assassaination runs, just hide her behind Hyperion?

The best way to keep any caster safe is to be out of range

[Trukson]

As a clarification on OP, im not necessarily stuck on Ravyn as caster. I just went with here cause shes cool and has good synergy with Hyperion.

Reading up a bit it seems like Ossian might be a good choice aswell.

[Mastershake]

I haven't really thought about Hyperion for 35 points, as that's a pretty big commitment, but I'd probably go something like:

Ravyn
-Hyperion

Arcanist
2x Stormfalls
MHSF+UA
eEiryss

If you absolutely need to get into melee, the MHSF have Combined Melee, but I think LOS ignoring shooting here is going to be better, while you have Hyperion dealing with the harder melee targets. YMMV though, but that's what I'm going for if I'm playing Hype at 35. At 50 the choice becomes much easier, as I get my Pain Knight, and MHAs in there as well.

Funny story, I was actually looking at bringing Ravyn to tier events with that list. Since Disco and Lady A aren't in tier Hype looked like the best way to go.

[PG_Emberwild]

Both Ravyn and Ossy are shooty casters. Ossy is more of a back field caster and pretty much stays there. Ravyn with her better stats and abilities is more versatile then Ossy as she can really mix it up in melee when the time comes she can really lay down the hurt all by her self being both a gun fighter and virtuoso with vortex of destruction. My problem with running Ravyn is I get a little too blood thirsty with her and get caught up in just killing models and when she is done she is in the middle of the open and ready to be assassinated.

[Murkhadh]

Both Ravyn and Ossy are shooty casters. Ossy is more of a back field caster and pretty much stays there. Ravyn with her better stats and abilities is more versatile then Ossy as she can really mix it up in melee when the time comes she can really lay down the hurt all by her self being both a gun fighter and virtuoso with vortex of destruction. My problem with running Ravyn is I get a little too blood thirsty with her and get caught up in just killing models and when she is done she is in the middle of the open and ready to be assassinated.

Ravyn has the ability to stay back more so than Ossyan. Ossyan has to get the targets in his control area for his feat, Ravyn just needs the models taking the shots in hers. Ravyn can definitely get in their and mix it up, but you generally only do this when you can do so safely, it doesn't happen in more games than it does.

[Trukson]

Tried the list tonight versus Gunnbjörns Trollbloods. Rememeber im still a noob (so all is to be taken with a huge pinch of salt) but this was my impression of the list:

+ SFA. Holy crap these guys are good! If they werent FA id spam them.

- MHSF+UA. Couldnt quite get the grip on these dudes. Sure they didnt really do anything bad, but it seems like a whole of points for a huge footprint that doesnt really do much. At one turn I had almost all of them in range of Gunnbjörn (7 I think) but between missing and POW10 they didnt do much more than give him a few scratches.

~ Hyperion. He hits like a wall of bricks both at ranged and in melee, but Starburst cannon is rarely up for long since his shields fade fast.
~ Ravyn. She performed admirably and her feat is golden, but I was less than impressed by her own combat prowess. She actually lost a game for me by failing to finish off a badly wounded bomber and getting smacked in return (my bad maybe, I could have chosen not to engage but I thought with all those attacks she should have taken him down).

[Mastershake]

Tried the list tonight versus Gunnbjörns Trollbloods. Rememeber im still a noob (so all is to be taken with a huge pinch of salt) but this was my impression of the list:

+ SFA. Holy crap these guys are good! If they werent FA id spam them.

- MHSF+UA. Couldnt quite get the grip on these dudes. Sure they didnt really do anything bad, but it seems like a whole of points for a huge footprint that doesnt really do much. At one turn I had almost all of them in range of Gunnbjörn (7 I think) but between missing and POW10 they didnt do much more than give him a few scratches.

~ Hyperion. He hits like a wall of bricks both at ranged and in melee, but Starburst cannon is rarely up for long since his shields fade fast.
~ Ravyn. She performed admirably and her feat is golden, but I was less than impressed by her own combat prowess. She actually lost a game for me by failing to finish off a badly wounded bomber and getting smacked in return (my bad maybe, I could have chosen not to engage but I thought with all those attacks she should have taken him down).

Hyperion doesn't lose the Starburst if the fields are down, only if it loses all of the G boxes. Considering they're in both grids (divided among 6 columns) and behind 12 field boxes I can't help but feel that either this is a mis-interpretation or you opponent is getting really lucky with columns.

[Trukson]

Hyperion doesn't lose the Starburst if the fields are down, only if it loses all of the G boxes. Considering they're in both grids (divided among 6 columns) and behind 12 field boxes I can't help but feel that either this is a mis-interpretation or you opponent is getting really lucky with columns.

Its a huge misinterpretation
Warned you that I am a noob, and despite being a wargamer for some 20+ years now I still enter some sort of "learning race" whenever I start playing a new game. This means that instead of wasting hours and hours on reading and interpreting rules I just try to cram in as many games as possible to learn by doing instead. All those hours pondering over rules will come once I get the grasp over basic game mechanics.

I just read "field-dependant" and jumped to conclusions that it meant I had to have a working field, instead of reading how for example other myrmidons work!

Hyperion still held up pretty nice, I just wish I had an Arcanist to help him tick along once those systems actually start shutting down (lost left arm to shooting and right arm in melee).

[Trukson]

Second game, versus the same Trollbloods player (also a noob) but this time he fielded a cavalry eGrissel army.
I changed eEiryss for an Arcanist and an MHA, partly as listopting since I knew I was facing trolls but mostly to try them out.

Army worked like a charm, feat-turn saw me nuke down the war wagon and reduce the long riders so when melee came Hyperion could easily smash the remains. I even risked committing Ravyn herself to some melee in which she cut down Horthol with ease.

+ Ravyn. I like having an active caster which means I have considered Ossyan for his cannon and whatnots, but Ravyn proved to be alot of fun dancing around handing out buffs, switching for melee and even getting a few shots off at range!
+ Hyperion. Im building my army around this guy and so far im not disappointed! He can really dish it out both at range and in melee and having an Arcanist around just added to the goodness!
+ Arcanist for above reasons! Need moarz!
+ SFA. These guys will be blown away by anything even giving them an angry stare but boy are they a toolbox!

~ MHA. I love this little dudettes threat range and speed. Today under the stress of chessclock I forgot her at one activation so she got to see very little action but she did cut up a Blitzer pretty bad the one time she got to actually hit something.
~ MHSF. I still dont have the full hang of utilising these guys, but today they did a good business with annoying stealth and soaking up alot of attacks on their high DEF. Still havent seen them kill stuff (despite doing a +7 CMA on one long rider) but lucky for me I got other killy units!

[Trukson]

Game three, loss to above Trollbloods army. Charging Ravyn with full Focus failed to kill a wounded eGrissel (think I had downed her 6 already).

Other than that im really struggling to get a grip on the MHSF. Seems like I could get so much better stuff for the 10 points.

+ SFA. Im not letting these guys go. Ever. Im so happy with these guys I tested out my painting scheme one of them yesterday:
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/c...n/DSC00286.jpg
+ MHA. Charge+Weaponmaster+Decapitate versus expensive trolls = all win, all the time.

~ Arcanist. Died to scattering blast early in the game.
~ Hyperion. Opponent decided to somewhat ignore him, but he shot and klled Horthol and then proceeded to charge and not kill a single one out of 5 Kriel Warriors with a sweep.
~ Ravyn. Blaming the dice is bad, but not being able to do 10-ish damage on a caster with charge and full Focus with Vortex up is just bad. Still like her but im leaning towards trying Ossyan for a game or two so I can get a more proactive caster (he can toss out debuffs).

- MHSF. I really need to learn how to play these guys. For now they just (barely) work as a 10-point screen that soaks melee-attacks. Their offensive output is really lacking. On the other hand both these games they have prevented the Long horns from cahrging Hyperion which im sure would have impacted the games alot more since these goats can put on some hurting!

[Murkhadh]

Game three, loss to above Trollbloods army. Charging Ravyn with full Focus failed to kill a wounded eGrissel (think I had downed her 6 already).

Other than that im really struggling to get a grip on the MHSF. Seems like I could get so much better stuff for the 10 points.

+ SFA. Im not letting these guys go. Ever. Im so happy with these guys I tested out my painting scheme one of them yesterday:
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/c...n/DSC00286.jpg
+ MHA. Charge+Weaponmaster+Decapitate versus expensive trolls = all win, all the time.

~ Arcanist. Died to scattering blast early in the game.
~ Hyperion. Opponent decided to somewhat ignore him, but he shot and klled Horthol and then proceeded to charge and not kill a single one out of 5 Kriel Warriors with a sweep.
~ Ravyn. Blaming the dice is bad, but not being able to do 10-ish damage on a caster with charge and full Focus with Vortex up is just bad. Still like her but im leaning towards trying Ossyan for a game or two so I can get a more proactive caster (he can toss out debuffs).

- MHSF. I really need to learn how to play these guys. For now they just (barely) work as a 10-point screen that soaks melee-attacks. Their offensive output is really lacking. On the other hand both these games they have prevented the Long horns from cahrging Hyperion which im sure would have impacted the games alot more since these goats can put on some hurting!

vs trolls the mhsf's job is to pick off the support, the krielstone bearers, the fell caller janissa stonetide and then they can shoot at infantry like fennblades. with snipe and ravyns feat there is no where that support can hide.

[Trukson]

vs trolls the mhsf's job is to pick off the support, the krielstone bearers, the fell caller janissa stonetide and then they can shoot at infantry like fennblades. with snipe and ravyns feat there is no where that support can hide.

In the three battles ive played the closest things he has used that can be classified as "support" is Impalers

[Murkhadh]

In the three battles ive played the closest things he has used that can be classified as "support" is Impalers

What are in his lists then?

[joelker41]

Sounds like it was Grissell + Blitzer + Toughaloes+ probably some sort of tarpit. The MHAs are great vs them, statistically they take out cavalry unbuffed with average rolls.

[Trukson]

Sounds like it was Grissell + Blitzer + Toughaloes+ probably some sort of tarpit. The MHAs are great vs them, statistically they take out cavalry unbuffed with average rolls.

eGrissel
War Wagon
Full Long horns
Horthol
Blitzer
Impaler
min Kriel Warriors


MHSF versus Long Horns = easy to hit, hard to damage

[joelker41]

Honestly against that Ossyan should be your pick vs that and probably most troll lists IMO. Calandra and Jarl can get snipedb y Ravyn consistently but Ossyan can shut down multiple heavies which is really needed.

[Murkhadh]

eGrissel
War Wagon
Full Long horns
Horthol
Blitzer
Impaler
min Kriel Warriors


MHSF versus Long Horns = easy to hit, hard to damage

I'd put the mhsf in the way of the tuffalos and shoot the kriel warriors, and kill everything else with disco and the stormfalls

[Trukson]

I'd put the mhsf in the way of the tuffalos and shoot the kriel warriors, and kill everything else with disco and the stormfalls

Thats pretty much how these games have played out (except Disco is Hyperion). What ive felt is that the MHSF seems like an expensive unit for that particular job. Its probably just a question of learning the game, the army and the opponent better. Once I get some games in against other than trollbloods I might start to see their greatness.

Honestly against that Ossyan should be your pick vs that and probably most troll lists IMO. Calandra and Jarl can get snipedb y Ravyn consistently but Ossyan can shut down multiple heavies which is really needed.

Ive started considering a second caster, and Ossyan is definately up there along with pVyros and Kaelyssa.