General Awesome - Tier, 4*, Highborn or Searforge?

[Da-Rock]

Now that we know he is coming and all of his wonderful abilities, what do we think.....Tier, 4*, Highborn or Searforge?

I have gone over some simple stuff, (and got some of it wrong) and it seems I will need to buy a lot of models that I have avoided in the past.

The Stunties have always been a guilty pleasure for me, but I have only been successful with Gorten. So what do we think?

Questions =

1. Horgenhold Artillery - yes/no, only in Tier?
2. Horgenhold Forgeguard - no benefits from any of his spells, but they love his Feat and Martial Discipline
3. Jacks in his battle group - Go all heavies to benefit from Energizer and Unstoppable Force?
4. If in Tier, what solos. If out of Tier, what solos?
5. Does adding the Hammerfall UA help or is it a waste of 3pts?

I am playing with the idea of buying models/units to make a 50pt Tier 4 as that seems great, but at the same time its expensive. The other issue is I like almost all Stunties in my Stunty army!

[Hjelmen0]

Theme at tier 4 more often than not, but that's because I only play Searforge and don't have any non-rhulic mercs available.

1: Never, ever. Herne & Jonne are still much better, especially with Fire for Effect.
2: Martial Discipline makes them even more potent counter-chargers, and the feat speaks for themselves. At least a minimum unit in the theme force, if not a full unit.
3: I'd go with a lot more gunbunnies than heavies. Higher speed means that you get more from Energizer when combined with Unstoppable Force. But don't leave home without at least one heavy - I'd go with the Rockram, personally.
4: In theme - Lord Rockbottom, Thor and maybe a Bokur, but I'm not so sure ... the Bokur is a pretty mean missile if you can keep the client bonus on the feat turn, but it's an expensive one. Out of theme (in Searforge) - Lord Rockbottom, Thor, Gudrun. I'm seriously going to miss Gudrun in the theme force. I love that guy!
5: It helps on a full unit, but less so on a minimum unit.

[Centa]

1. Never played the Artillery, but i think it is a decent unit. With Snipe and Arcing Fire you can reach most of the opponents support models. But i would only include them if you want more artillery then H&J, they are just to good with FfE.

2. I would allways field them with Ossrum. They are more then decent without support, and adding +2 SPD/ARM makes them awesome. With ARM20 they are able to survive even some charge attacks.

3. Take at least 2 heavys with him. Energizer + Feat makes Rhulic jacks really fast. Rhulic jacks with a thread range of 12,5" is great. At least 2, beacause Ossrum lacks on hitting power. Gorten can increase the STR by 4, and Durgen by 2 + free charge, thats a big dmg bonus. A Driller/Wroughthammer does 25/27 dmg on averanged rolls after a charge including TuneUp for dmg (Against ARM21). If you miss one attack, the opponent heavy jack might be still at full strength.

4. I would go Highborne or Four Star. eEiryss, A&H, Gorman. Thats all you need. At 35pts i would only take 2 of them, 9pts is to much support, coz you still want Thor and maybe Rockbottom.

5. With Ossrum i would take the UA. Snipe makes the new order usefull. And it also helps to get a full CRA at a single model. On the minifeat turn they will do ~23dmg vs ARM20. Thats amazing against colossals, coz now your heavy should be able to finish it.

[jwai]

Concerning the question about battlegroup composition, I heard in passing that gun bunnies with Bulldoze could be hilarious if used to push aside models without Reach to get clear shots at the opposing caster with fully boosted rolls.

[Hjelmen0]

That's one great application! But the simple fact is that SPD 5 with Bulldoze is amazing for scenario play! Very often I see people parking their tough models with just a toe in a control zone, but with Energizer, Unstoppable Force and a simple run, you can push a lot of stuff out of control zones or away from objectives/flags. Granted, Energizer does make heavy hitters faster, but winning on scenario by bumping models away is just as viable a win as killing them dead

Two heavies is probably not a bad idea though. I've gotten used to a battlegroup with two Blasters, two Gunners and a Rockram, but as Centa says, Lightbulb has no way of boosting the damage output of the rhulic 'jacks.

[CareyBear]

While this is only theorymachine.. I think you could make legit builds in Highborn with few Rhulic models other than his battlegroup and not miss his feat much.

Sniped Longgunners with Martial Discipline? Fire For Effect marshalled Mule? Nice...

[John of Arc]

I'm totally new to Rhulic models besides Forgeguard, and at the moment I don't plan on getting any high shields, so my choices are four star or highborn. I plan on trying him in highborn first, for Forgeguard and Gun Mages. FFE sounds sweet on a Mule (though I don't know what I'll do with the jack marshal bonus...) and also sounds like total money on the Gun Mages CRA order for shieldwalls and such. Beyond that, I really don't know what to take with him. It'll take some experience to see how well he can support his battlegroup; he has a big spell list and I feel like you'll only be able to use a very small portion of it each game. I'll be taking Sylys with him for sure (just like I do with everyone).

[CareyBear]

Just to note The General's turd polishing ability -

Rutger Shaw marshalling a Mule - Drive for Reroll and FFE on the Mule is actually a Not-Crap(TM) use of his drive.. and Taryn + Martial Discipline is basically Nonokrion Brand.
High Shields have a 18" threat to double tap on minifeat with Snipe - may be Not-Crap(TM)

[StJason]

In pure Searforge, it occurs to me that THE place to put F4E is on the OAC. Specifically, the leader of a CRA.
How does a eRAT 10+3d6, ePOW 17+3d6 (with POW 11+3d6 blast!) grab ya? Threat range 17" too. Stick them in a trench and they are DEF 16.

...I think Ossrum is the king to Rancor's "All Ogrun" army.

[RevolverAdamska]

This is the highborn list i'm gonna play and proxy , thinking about STR2012

Ossrum +5
Driller -6
Blaster -3

Mule -8*
Atgm +ua-8*
Max Forge Guard -8
Max Forge Guard -8
Max OaC -9
Sylas -2
eE -3

Gonna play this list next week

[whats82]

Remember you can also bulldoze + slam. So if your basher have the movement, during slam movement you can push the target back 2", continue your movement, then slam him at a position 2" behind where you would normally slam him, with grand slam and follow up he can go REALLY far. (it also allow you to slam by starting at 1" from the target)

[Centa]

This is the highborn list i'm gonna play and proxy , thinking about STR2012

Ossrum +5
Driller -6
Blaster -3

Mule -8*
Atgm +ua-8*
Max Forge Guard -8
Max Forge Guard -8
Max OaC -9
Sylas -2
eE -3

Since the first Colossal/Gargantuan has hit the table i try to build my lists around facing one of them. And this list should have serious problems against a Stormwall. Your Forgeguard will lose 70% of their models when charging through the covering fire templates. Only one Beatstick in a 50pts list is not a good idea. Your opponent will have lots of ways to stop or damage it before you will be able to hit the Colossal.
In addition Colossals/Gargantuas are immun against push and KD, so your ATMGs+Mule wont do much against it. If you dont have any Colossals/Gargantuas in your meta, it should be fine.
But imho the most 50pts lists should have 2 heavy hitters, there are not many casters which run well without a good beatstick, and only one jack is disabled very quick.
I would drop one unit of Forgeguard for another Driller and Thor. Seeing a Rhulic caster without Thor is allways a lil bit wierd for me, except its your second list and you cant take him again. With only P+S 17 you really need the boosted damage rolls. Facing high ARM models is no fun with this list. And pushing back isnt allways possible, a smart opponent place a trooper behind his heavy and then you cant push it anymore, or at least not far enough (if he wants to avoid blast damage).

[PG_Rassilon]

So far I have used him only in his tier list because his tier list is really, really good. I usually do a T3. The benefit of having upkeep spells on things already is a great asset. For jacks, I have been using a Basher with Thor for its 17" slam threat range on the feat turn, a Rockram and a Blaster. Hammerfall with advanced deployment go in the trench, with a full unit of forge guard as backup. A great list that can hit hard against armor and good against infantry spam.

I find it funny how Herne and Jonne are now practically an auto-include with Ossrum.

The only issue with his tier list is that you cannot take Gudrun the Wanderer as it doesn't say that he is Rhulic on his card.

[MagnustheJust]

The only issue with his tier list is that you cannot take Gudrun the Wanderer as it doesn't say that he is Rhulic on his card.

Huh... never really noticed that till just now. Novel concept.

[RevolverAdamska]

Since the first Colossal/Gargantuan has hit the table i try to build my lists around facing one of them. And this list should have serious problems against a Stormwall. Your Forgeguard will lose 70% of their models when charging through the covering fire templates. Only one Beatstick in a 50pts list is not a good idea. Your opponent will have lots of ways to stop or damage it before you will be able to hit the Colossal.
In addition Colossals/Gargantuas are immun against push and KD, so your ATMGs+Mule wont do much against it. If you dont have any Colossals/Gargantuas in your meta, it should be fine.
But imho the most 50pts lists should have 2 heavy hitters, there are not many casters which run well without a good beatstick, and only one jack is disabled very quick.
I would drop one unit of Forgeguard for another Driller and Thor. Seeing a Rhulic caster without Thor is allways a lil bit wierd for me, except its your second list and you cant take him again. With only P+S 17 you really need the boosted damage rolls. Facing high ARM models is no fun with this list. And pushing back isnt allways possible, a smart opponent place a trooper behind his heavy and then you cant push it anymore, or at least not far enough (if he wants to avoid blast damage).

Hi mate, thank you for yours tips
Imho, Sw just gonna kill Thor like every infantry model the pods hit inside 15", without arm 17+
I was thinking about 2 driller but Ossrum , imho, lack of focus for both; Sw pod can distrupt jack, as you can see no escape point or plan B.
My meta is made of Circle, Legion, few Cygnar ( only one whit SW ), Retribution , few Cryxs, one Khador only (me), others don't seem to like the idea of super robots around.
In my humble Khadior player experience i run always one and one only Jack, usualy a Spriggan.
They just want you buy and deploy your faction MetalGear, to counter others MetalGear. Buy 2win.

[Centa]

To disrupt a Driller Stormwall needs to roll a 10. Coz the Pod only disrupts when doing damage.

Thor can TuneUp a jack within 5" and he can move 4", if you move before you use energezier you can add another 3" then 4" move 3" charge, thats a total of 19" adding feat you are at 2" for the jack, and 2" more movement of Thor, thats a total of 19-23" Thor can stand away from the target you want to charge.
Sure thats all Theory, but i think it shouldnt be such a big problem to avoid the Pod from a SW.
Against normal BigGun shots, you can try to hide him behind a Gorman SmokeBomb, some of your troopers, or just take an Ogrun Bokur for ShieldGuard.

But i have to agree, Stormwall is a pain in the ***. I own one by myself. Its no fun to play against a Stormwall if your list is not prepared to fight against him. You need some ranged attacks, to get rid of the Pods or he will deny your charge lanes, you cant rely on weaponmaster infantry to kill him, coz he has those annoying covering fire templates.
I prefer playing 35pts games, coz when your opponent fields a SW at this point size he doesnt have much left to back him up. Run eEiryss close to him and with energizer 2 Drillers. With 2-3 (Power Booster) attacks he wont scrap a Driller, and next turn you can fill each of them with 3 foc to scrap him.
Also i like to take the HighShields against Colossals, with the UA and Snipe they can do 2 POW 21 CRAs. Even with AS on SW he will take 12dmg on averanged rolls, if you can strip it off with eEiryss you will do 18dmg. If you dont need Snipe, you can cast FfE on the leader for a boosted shot, but thats 3 Foc for only 1 boosted shot, it doesnt work on the mini feat, coz it says first ranged attack .
Some ppl prefer to take LongGunners in a Highborne list, but i dont like them much, they are expensive, and die easily to blast dmg. And i prefer to move my models each turn, what you cant do with LGs if you want the second shot.

[RevolverAdamska]

Good point mate, stil ,imho, we need to understand how many time and how many point allow you to use Colossal, and how many player gonna use theyr MetalGear on tournament list, imho even at 50 point Colossal cost a lot. Build a list only thinking about Colossal seems pretty unwise , imho.
In my meta stealth is the keyword for list, so i badly need an answer about, and i find Atgm +ua 8 a nice solution.
How energize can effect Thor Driller ?