Killing Time: Vayl, Disciple of Everblight

[PG_BloodRath]

Greetings legionnaires! Most people will only live briefly Killing Time along the way. You can live forever or die trying. Welcome back every one to KILLING TIME! This issues we are continuing in the co-op style of articles will a very special guest. PG_Pszito. Our focus is going to be Vayl, Disciple of Everblight. Im going to pose some questions and my fellow PG is going to get in depth into the who, what, when, where, why.


Welcome Pszito. Thanks for taking the time to help out with Killing time. You have always been a big contributor to any thread you get involved in and it?s been a privilege to work with you on this article. Why don?t you open us up with a little the break down on why we are here?


?Howdy fellow Legionnaires!

I was asked by Bloodrath talk about Vayl, Disciple of Everblight after some discussion about lists for her, specifically at the 50 point value. Due to her rather high learning curve I highly recommend practicing some lower point values with her before diving into her fully loaded, 'all the bells and whistles' level of awesome. Once you've gotten a feel for the core of her list, the added pieces begin to compound her power and help balance for her weaker matches. Since order of operations and positioning are so critical with her and she has so many ways to affect said positions, she can bog you down in tournament play until you've got a feel for where you need to be.
Some basic knowledges: Second only to Saeryn, pVayl is widely agreed to be our strongest competitive caster, particularly vs Hordes. This is largely due to her high fury, powerhouse ability list, and flexibility on the battlefield. As has been said many times before, she comes with attack/damage buffs, movement enhancers, combat tricks, and defensive abilities. She primarily focuses on powering up our already awesome beasts, so taking survivable and effective troops is a must for her.
Between her feat and vast spell-slinging range she practically screams a ranged, 'hit & run' tactic by default (known as ranged attrition)... but certainly pulls no punches once the melee ensues. Her feat warrants keeping an eye on your model count, as you want to be able to move all key models while also not having to get your entire rest of your not-dead-yet opponent's army in her control (not difficult at 50 points but air on the side of caution). You also want the ability to play for scenario, so we want to bring plenty of options to go either way.

[PG_BloodRath]

Many players ask me how to build a Vayl1 list or what is her auto includes. This can be hard to nail down because of play style and the fact that Vayl1 can make anything good. What do you feel her auto includes are?


The core (the most critical elements in any list with pVayl, imo):

- Typhon - is a power house underneath Incite, is the ideal Dark Sentinel target (tho I'm quickly seeing the power of Proteus' pull in melee vs anything not btb with reach), and can threaten 22" with leash, Slipstream, charge sprays. As your most expensive and most dangerous piece, you want to keep him safe but deliver his firepower as many times as you can. Trade him last.

- Seraph - provides the clutch animus, strafes like a pro under incite, and is a no-KD LoS blocker for Vayl. Often an underestimated heavy, is single-handedly capable of dropping low-mid arm casters with 15" threat (21" no-aim) 2 to 4 shots with effective rat 7-11 pow 14s. Going to effective mat 8-10 pow 16 crit poison in melee helps this 8 pointer earn it's salt in melee. Keep in mind that Vayl typically needs to go first to throw up Incite, you can slipstream her forward during his activation to get a full 17" threat out of it.

- Annyssa - is the ideal channel target with Vayl as auto-hit trumps auto-miss, capable of parry-moving 14" to position while still being combat effective (and she's survivable). A raek does a similar job at a comparable point value with more survivability and caster synergy, but often just runs to position. Depending on other beast composition she might be fury-loaded as is. Use her as primarily as a solo hunter until caster-kill becomes a possibility. Annyssa is typically the first model I move every turn, barring needing to clear a landing pad for her.

[PG_BloodRath]

Now that we have the auto includes out of the way what are other elements you feel best take advantage of her high synergy and powerful feat?



Keeping a strong ranged element in mind, you want to build up your tools to both assassinate from afar or break down your opponent's army either then buy a turn with feat. Other elements you will also want; something to capitalize on Chiller spreading out to where you need it, fury management, some things to add to attrition, and any other tech to deal with less-than-ideal matches. Here's my bulking out choices:

- Ravagore - Our sweet sweet defender cannon. Bringing a spam-able animus on our multi-shot heavies, unfounded threat range, our highest pow ranged attack, and completely capable in melee with incite (taking good ol' care of that mat 5) he's easily the next choice in her heavy arsenal. Being able to fire up your opponent's force then step back can fan the flames of your attrition plan, especially when Incite isn't a safe option for Vayl and your opponent is vulnerable to said elemental type. Having 2 open fists at your disposal helps de-snare close combat or cap objectives.

- Nephilim Bolt Thrower - A subtle point in Legion's ranged game. High pow, Thunderbolt, NON-TYPED on a slick flight-possible light. Use him to open up LoS by movement or KD, take out flame-immune targets like Gorman, move key enemy threats back that extra pinch (which your experienced opponents have to try and plan for), and use him as trade bait when the going gets tough. More fuel for the ranged game. Giving Vayl access to flight isn't terrible; inhospitable ground, board terrain, or any other feature that prevents her from fleeing can spell a death sentence for Vayl.

- Hex Hunters (Max) - are my go-to unit for running interference. High spd, pathfinder, stealthy, possible 2 attacks each, and the ability to shut up thresher, power attacks (tramples in particular), armor pierce, t-head pulse, etc etc goes the mile for the meta. Magical typed everything helps vs any incorporeal threats, paladins, and so much more. These guys are my multi-purpose throw-aways; spacing them out to deliver chiller to targets much like Cygnar Rangers (run around reach guys if possible and keep 1-2 back to buff up dark sentinel), deal with troop-spam, block charge-lanes/prevent tramples, feed the Vessel, and contest objectives. Their two major downfalls are non-fearless and cardboard armor. Knowing that, play them accordingly: dont give your opponent an easy means to kill half unit/trigger abom/terror, avoid aoes/spray lanes, use stealth to avoid Eruption of Spines/Ashes to Ashes/etc etc, and remember that chiller still works even if they're running. Often I've upkept it on the remaining fleeing 2-3 members because I could play around them and maintain the debuff. They typically advance far enough that forsakens are of minimal issue, unless of course the better play is risk running for a mega-bomb.

- Forsaken x2- Your offensive fury management option. With slipstream and rampager you can seriously weaken up some pushed heavies, deter armor camping casters, deal with problematic troop blocks like deathstar (at 50 points you may encounter redundant difficult units), pack them near vayl/beasts to force fear checks, and generally allow your heavies to load up. I do like to cycle the two, getting a constant bomb per turn but remember that you can bomb for 0" at BtB. Given there's little to protect them I bring two, use tenacity off a vesseled shredder, and block LoS to shield. I typically keep them centralized to Vayl and the Seraph unless I need to play scenario.

- Spawning Vessel - You know how these ladies work. Just make sure your Hex Hunters don't out-pace them on turn 2 which is easy if you're running/feating. Having those late-game transfer targets and tenacity adds up quickly. I've even thrown a Stinger ~26" before to land that killing 4d6 pow 14... desperate times. ;-) If my opponent doesn't have easy corpse targets and my Hex Hunters are on the outs I will begin sacing the ladies. Use them to contest close objectives as well.

- Feralgeist - Yes. This guy. Now before the linch-mob steps up this guy is in here for 3 solid reasons. 1) He's an incorporeal objective capper, not all lists have the tools to easily disbatch him. He gives you a 4th solo with capping potential, allowing you to divide 2 per objective before you have to start sending beasts. 2) He adds to the attrition element once the going gets rough. Typhon or the Ravagore attacking a stationary or chillered target can still bring some pain. Taking over enemy warbeasts isn't always the plan but with the possibility of a turn 1 rampager take-down he really rubs the salt in that wound. 3) Barring scenario/warbeast jobs to fill, he is Typhon's personal range-finder. After you've Leashed/slipstreamed but before activating Typhon you run this guy to position for him to charge, lining up his spray templates with an un-killable target, exactly at the distance you need (~9" away from him). It allows you to circumvent targeting restrictions that even eyeless-sight sprays wont, ah-la wind-wall, eSkarre's feat if she didn't tag Typhon, Menoth heavies protected by choir, etc etc. In 50 points, your opponent should likely be bringing their anti-ranged solution... so you should probably bring the trump card for 1 measly point. Oh... did I mention he can score cps. ;-)

[PG_BloodRath]

In 2012 people are always looking at what reinforcements they should bring during the list building process. What do you find are the best reinforcements with vayl1?



A word on sideboard... er, Reinforcements i mean:
At 50 you get 10 points, with Annyssa in the mix, and a ranged game lacking serious volume of fire Max Raptors are an easy default. Able to contest objectives the turn they come in, hit & run naturally, threaten decent armored casters, and being they aren't exactly slouches in melee (decent chiller alternative if HH are down) there isn't much of a reason not to go with them. Without stealth they can quickly draw fire, but as you are a range-oriented list from the get-go your priorities when not assassinating should be taking down ranged threats anyway.
The other option I often use is a Scythean and Shepherd. Rushing to Vayl's defense with a solid melee heavy can be the most important move vs certain matches. Since Reinforcements drop turn 2 you can affect him with feat to get him ~21" off the side of the board for the inevitable turn 3 clash or bum-rush enemy gun-lines. Take-down can also be enough of a reason alone given certain problem units/feats; Vayl has no innate RFP abilities.

Both options strengthen in different direction; raptors assassinate/kite, scythean backs up the attrition with big hits and tech. Bringing anything that doesn't aid your big plan at 50 points is only taking up space. You can honestly pick your poison with this one but redundancy on heavies/units is not typically Legion's strength. Striders, swordsmen, Raeks, BFS, Spell Martyrs, but my two recommendations carry strong tactical synergy with Vayl.

Other mentionables:
- Striders w/UA- With all their abilities they're a perfect compliment to any Legion ranged game. They can deal with key support elements that our beasts don't ideally don't like to spend time tearing up; Janissa, KSB, choir, Covenant, non-UA Shifting Stones, Wilder, Druid UA, Beast Handlers, Squire/Reindolt, on and on. They are a tough sell being one point more and 4 bodies shy on max HH, non-magical, and near-garbage melee once the going is rough.
- Black Frost Shard - Yet another way to turn your damage output up to 11. When a seraph can suddenly strafe pow 16s... typhon spray pow 18s, and a ravagore drop pow 19s (pow 12 blast!) you know the game in on. Being you're already specializing in fire typed ranged attacks and Vayl's most powerful spell is Frost, it's already feeling quite type-heavy. Not to mention these guys are expensive and conditional to work. I would only recommend them if you want to put all your eggs in the agro-basket, experience is a must. You can keep them alive via Cloak and feat, but that only works for one turn.
- Angelius - Our classic hit & run heavy. Their general lacking is made up with incite, gives you another KD-immune heavy to screen Vayl, and Repulsion brings home the combat trick arsenal. The only reason they don't make the cut with me is that we have a 6 pt light with superior firepower, which is the prime plan. Given the plan is to shoot em up for a turn, he falls shy. However if you're a die-hard, her threat extension might as well make him a gun capable of AP charge, boost hit, repulsion, then feat back. Upgrading the bolt thrower is the easiest point swap.
- Raek - Is an assassination boss, capable of absurd headbutt threat range with Vayl. Chiller or leash him up, advance, leap, boosted headbutt, pop and drop with typhon, seraph, etc. Cheap, great scenario contester, situational animus, and can drop 5 troop killing attacks under incite. Also my second choice for arc node-angler, providing Vayl the ability to see through forests and clouds (you still auto miss stealth >5" and they get +2 from concealment).
- Naga Nightlurker - Can quickly provide the path to an all-beast list given how many I want to run. Wraithbane is clutch for Legion's ranged game and despite the lack of initials his crits can save the day.

[PG_BloodRath]

There has been a ton of discussion on using Proteus with vayl1. What camp are you in on this matter?



- Proteus - After some playtesting with our new character he can add some volume to Vayl's back of tricks. With a 6" ranged drag he extends rampager take-downs, pulls desirable distant targets into incite range totaling 23" threat with slipstream(which brings him officially out of pill-fisted land), and helps fight the scenario war. With melee pull, he's almost a better dark sentinel target than Typhon (if your goal is to remove assassins from getting Vayl) due to not relying on crit however pitch does solve the problem almost regardless of the situation, can pull threats off of our ranged beasts, and ensnares targets with free strikes if you must hold something in place. Animus is primarily used to RFP key models but can help the attrition vs troop machine. I don't believe he's a replacement for Typhon, but I would seriously consider running both of them at 50.



Is there anything you feel is “wasted points” or doesn’t synergize well with vayl1?



- Spell Martyrs - With pVayl I see next to no need for these to be in the picture. The only case where I wish I had 2-3 of these guys were situations where I literally wanted to hide Vayl behind buildings or so many models that arcing through one of those would be useless. However with her feat turn you can pop around a wall and feat back at the end of the turn... making that critical push turn count vs eLylyth, the Caines, eKreuger, etc etc. Even then all that fails, she can camp transfers to weather their assassination... so I've found she rarely has need to hide and thus throw points on expensive one-off arc nodes who are easy to kill in the first place. At 50 points, your opponent will have something to pop them off.

[PG_BloodRath]

Speaking of other warcaster/ warlocks. What do you find to be some of her hardest matchups?


Tough Matches (and other omgs):

Any caster/faction capable of flinging massive hordes of dudes great distances is Vayl's worst nightmare. She can even dismantle the Borka brick, a Harby's Menoth Jack/Zealot wall, or assassinate arm camping Vlad... but if your entire core beast ranged power gets ensnared by a blitz it shuts down her plans and even feat won't get you to safety (in fact it will simply set up their charge). pGrissel, Jarl, the Makedas, Ossyan, eVyros, Ashlynn, Shae, eVlad, pSkarre with Satyxis up front, Thyra, and pretty much any cavalry line. At least with some of those you can attempt to focus fire the select threats but with full troop waves clogging up your beasts you may struggle to de-snare before it's too late. This is part of the reason I take 2 forsaken and treat Hex Hunters like throw aways.

'Buy a turn' casters Vayl can weather by counter feating and simply positioning for the next turn. Be sure to contest scenario with acceptable trade models while setting yourself up for reprisal. eSkarre, Saeryn, Strum/Drang, Zerkova, eHaley, and the like you should be well acquainted with so you can plan accordingly.

Ranged assassination lists can typically put Vayl down with ease, so take extra care to screen her with several other models, take down/cripple critical threats, and camp plenty of fury. If the situation lends itself use her feat to engage gun lines, sometimes running first to out-threat those sniped bastards.

eDenny, as problematic as she is for scenario play you have a plan with Vayl. Position your beasts within 2" of zones/objectives and you can change facing to trigger slipstreams. If your opponent is reckless with incorporeal feat-turned denny you can shoot two boosted hoarfrosts to try and stationary and position hex hunters to bolt her down (tho arm 21 isn't easy). The key is baiting her into using the feat while you're relatively safe and after that it's gravy. At 50 you have plenty of ways to contest, use them and she'll likely try to use feat to catch you rather than scenario win... which is not her ideal.

[PG_BloodRath]

Many players get so caught up in regarding her as an anti-hoards warlock that they don?t view her in light of warmachine. Can you tell us a little bit about vayl1 vs warmachine



She clearly brings several elements exclusive to Hordes but do not hesitate to simply bring her brute force to bear on warmachine lists. She typically out-threats/out guns jacks so long as you don't leave your expensive pets out in the open and can deal well vs troop-machine through attrition. When you don't throw some troopers under that bus and amp up for retaliation. Warmachine, apart from camping focus and defensive feats, has very little survivability against her assassination so go for the throat if you can at 50 but be prepared to tempo them out instead. Do not over-commit to the attempt unless it is near certifiable and still keep an eye to pulling your beasts to safety with feat after.



In closing can you give us a little bit of an idea of what your game plan is when playing vayl and how you close it out.



Ideally you want to land a Typhon dropping sprays on a double debuffed caster (chiller on a running HH and 17" threat with Incite), possibly KD from BT, possible stationary from Hoarfrost, on fire from Ravagore, and that still leaves HH, Seraph, Annyssa, any lessers spawned to clear the way. However, often the BT must push a model out of the way, Vayl needs to snipe out a model or two, and even the Ravagore clear heavy troopers. If Typhon is the only one making it... the plan is likely still a go. Then there are times in matches where Vayl gets caught with her pants down and she's down to just a Seraph or BT after all the trading. Do NOT give up with her. Her ability to assassinate with spells and one ranged beast is notable and it's not uncommon to expend the entirety of your army just to deliver her within 9" of their caster, delivering the 3-7 attacks under incite to end it.
Every game you play with Vayl you should know from deployment which way you intend to win, typically based on matchup and scenario. In 50 points, it's quite easy to always leave yourself the option of assassination but if you're committing to scenario or attrition you need have your waves of tar-pit inf, ranged beasts, and solos going to where they can do their job. If assassinating, I recommend aiming for turn three, softening them up turn 2 feat, then pressing in for Incite takedown the following. If attritioning, neuter their blitz options and then dismantle synergy. If capping scenario zones, neuter ranged options so your solos and beasts can do the job while maintaining your core threat. When using her feat to pull back, keep an eye towards how much of the scenario area you threaten... at 50 you may lose that ground forever. Battle on and glory to the Disciple."

[PG_BloodRath]

Thanks for participating PG_Pszito. I hope you will work with me on more KT articles in the future.
Here are a few of my favorite resource sights I like to reference players to when reserching vayl1

These two are chain attacks battle report podcast about vayl1

http://www.chain-attack.com/2012/06/...ayl-vs-mohsar/

http://www.chain-attack.com/2011/07/...ssyan-vs-vayl/

this article links you to omnus’ thoughts on vayl 1

http://handcannononline.com/blog/201...t-2012-part-v/



Here's a bunch of links also about Vayl over the last years that i've chimed in on. I can go through and pull out things if you like or we can just thread it all together:

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...highlight=Vayl - Hex Hunter inclusion

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...highlight=Vayl - Kalaris' Vayl guide

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...highlight=Vayl - list building discussion

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...highlight=Vayl - vs ranged discussion

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...highlight=Vayl -vs warmachine discussion

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...highlight=Vayl - Typhon + Vayl talk

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...highlight=Vayl - another interesting list dissection

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...highlight=Vayl - early tips and tricks from dawn of mkII

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...highlight=Vayl - discussion of mkI to mkII changes

[Neutralyze]

Spell martyrs are best for reapplying leash to a target that isn't in range before she moves. It also catches people off guard with the movement angles when doing in across the board.

[Defenstrator]

Personally I always take a Stinger with her. Being able to Bushwhack really helps her hit and run play style, especially when using Leash. You can start with a beast, then give pVayl Bushwhack, throw the Oraculus at your target, then cast Leash and maybe some offensive spells before backing up and dragging the beast with you.

Also MAT 7 POW 14 + 4d6 really hurts things, and at RAT 6 POW 12 their sprays actually kill people.

[Omnus]

I strongly suggest any legion player who hasnt played vayl1 much to do so. She really has layers upon layers and the more you play her the more tricks you can do.

She can also make use of about any beast we have. If you have a light are some combination that you really like the sculpt...play vayl1. She makes mediocre beasts wonderful and great beasts insane.

[Fernslayer]

- Feralgeist - Yes. This guy. Now before the linch-mob steps up this guy is in here for 3 solid reasons. 1) He's an incorporeal objective capper, not all lists have the tools to easily disbatch him. He gives you a 4th solo with capping potential, allowing you to divide 2 per objective before you have to start sending beasts.

Actually this is incorrect, UNLESS he is In A Beast! as stated on pg 92 of the rule book....

" Objective Markers....

A player holds an objective marker when the only models with bases overlapping the marker are his. Inert Warjacks, Wild Warbeasts and Incorporeal models can not hold an objective"

[Fernslayer]

double post

[Episkopos]

I don't think controlled models can capture control points.
I believe it can still contest scenario zones.

[PG_fildrigar]

remember that you can bomb for 0" at BtB.

I'm sorry, but that is incorrect. See this ruling.

[PG_fildrigar]

Actually this is incorrect, UNLESS he is In A Beast! as stated on pg 92 of the rule book....

" Objective Markers....

A player holds an objective marker when the only models with bases overlapping the marker are his. Inert Warjacks, Wild Warbeasts and Invorporeal models can not hold an objective"

This is incorrect, please see the Steamroller 2012 document. Page 32, Scenario Scoring Exceptions. The Feralgeist is specifically allowed to control.

While the Feralgeist is far from the superspectactular model it was in MK1, ( pre-nerf ) it is very usable in Mk2 Steamrollers. Perhaps the second best one point Minion option?

[PG_Pszito]

A huge thank you to PG_Bloodrath for getting me to sit down and write out my thoughts; would not have happened without your prompting! I lay no claim to being an expert however I wanted to share my experiences with the community on one of my favorite locks.

@Neutralyze - A great movement trick indeed! Even I'm still learning things with her to this day. I would personally still have a hard time spending 1 point on a movement trick, when she can get Lurker and do about the same, but it's certainly something opponents will struggle anticipating.

@Defenstrator - That is exactly why I love the vessel, you get choice. If you find Lurker will grant her more survivability than tenacity, make a Stinger! Throwing a 3-4d6 reach freestriker in the way can complicate things too.

@Fernslayer, Episkopos and PG_Fildrigar - yes, as of SR2012 he can control when possessing your own warbeasts, otherwise just contest. I mostly refer to him when not possessing, being a thorn in non-magical lists side's.

@PG_fildrigar - i stand corrected. All the more reason to take two and cycle them or stock up to blast troop spammers off your line.

Thank you all for chiming in! The more knowledge the better we can all bring Vayl's wrath to bear! Thank you all for reading and I sincerely hope this upped your game with our cold mistress! Stay frosty!

[PG_fildrigar]

No, I'm pretty sure the Feralgeist can control all by himself. Not just contest.

For a solo to control a zone, it must have an army point cost of 1 or more. For solos that consist of
multiple models, divide the point cost of the solo by
the model count on the card to see if each model
is worth at least 1 point. For multiple-model solos
to control a zone they must contain 50% or more
of their starting number (rounding up) and all those
remaining models must be within the same zone.

If the model B2B with the flag is a solo it must have an army point cost of 1 or more. For solos
that consist of multiple models, divide the point
cost of the solo by the model count on the card to
see if each model is worth at least 1 point. For
multiple-model solos to control a flag the solo must
contain 50% or more of its starting number
(rounding up) and all those remaining models must
also be within 4˝ of the flag.

Model_____| Control? |
Feralgeist | Yes___ |

[PG_Saturated Phat]

I've been running:
Vayl, Disciple of Everblight - WB: +6
- Succubus
- Proteus - PC: 11
- Scythean - PC: 9
- Shredder - PC: 2
- Nephilim Bolt Thrower - PC: 6
- Ravagore - PC: 10

The Forsaken - PC: 2
Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1
The Forsaken - PC: 2

Blighted Nyss Hex Hunters - Leader & 9 Grunts: 8
- Bayal, Hound of Everblight - 3

Recently, I've had six games its been heaps of fun and I have learned a lot about how to play.
I Have had a lot of success with proteus pulling things into incite range and yanking things under dark sentinel, but I've been struggling to get the alpha strike, I don't have a seraph but getting one might solve some woes.


How do yous all get the alpha?

[Archnomad]

I've been running:
Vayl, Disciple of Everblight - WB: +6
- Succubus
- Proteus - PC: 11
- Scythean - PC: 9
- Shredder - PC: 2
- Nephilim Bolt Thrower - PC: 6
- Ravagore - PC: 10

The Forsaken - PC: 2
Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1
The Forsaken - PC: 2

Blighted Nyss Hex Hunters - Leader & 9 Grunts: 8
- Bayal, Hound of Everblight - 3

Recently, I've had six games its been heaps of fun and I have learned a lot about how to play.
I Have had a lot of success with proteus pulling things into incite range and yanking things under dark sentinel, but I've been struggling to get the alpha strike, I don't have a seraph but getting one might solve some woes.


How do yous all get the alpha?

Slipstream and Leash definitely helps. Even just leash on a scythean is more than enough for most engagements (i.e. you don't always need to leash typhon). Personally, in my last few games I've been taking a different route and am running pVayl as a shooty caster. This list has enough shooting to scrap pretty much anything that's in incite range. Oh and using Dark Sentinel on a NBT to push heavies out of melee is hilarious. This is the list:

pVayl +6
Typhon 12
Ravagore 10
Ravagore 10
Nephilim Bolt Thrower 6
Naga Nightlurker 5
Shredder 2
Strider Deathstalker 2
Strider Deathstalker 2
Succubus 2
Forsaken 2
Shepherd 1
Shepherd 1
Swamp Gobbers 1
50

I don't know if it's better than the Jake pVayl list, but I will say it's been doing very very well for me vs Menoth. Which is a matchup I usually struggle with, but I feel it's probably weaker to trolls, which used to be my go to with pVayl. (: Swings and roundabouts.

Edit: Oh and Glider is totally legit on pVayl. I get so much use out of that.

[Neutralyze]

My list Isnt the end all be all. I do like having a Scythean as the reach allows a hyper aggressive strike at a heavy on the opponents side of the table.

[Karnstein]

Quick question: Rampager allows a full advance move. What about upkeep spells on the target, that offer a SPD boost? Lets say pMakeda goes first, casts "savagery" on a titan and I target the same titan with a rampager. Does it move with its base SPD or with SPD+5?

[spoggalator]

Ive been using pVayl alot and the Proteus hookshot using spell myrters to rampage out a beast has caused alot of people to get very frustrated with me. At 50pts im thinking of using:

pVayl
Proteus
Scythene
Ravagore
Naga night lurker
Shredder

5 Raptors
Raval
forsaken
2 spell myrters
And a shepperd

I feel pVayl should of been Proteuses caster just for how good she makes him. I only ever boost to hit with the hookshot because I upkeep chiller on it just for the pleasure of hitting everything!

[Neutralyze]

I feel that not including typhon is a mistake. he synergizes very well with her.