Lets talk the 25pt bracket

[PG_BloodRath]

hey every one recentally i got invited to a 25pt torunament. there are some cool specs but i dont want to get into that. i relized just how long it has been since i played in the 25pt brakcet. (about a year) i have list block when it comes to building and so many of our warlocks looks like they could be good at 25pts until i get it on paper. i i wanted to open a general discussion about the 25pt bracket and what our community thinks shines or fails at this bracket. it could be any thing from warlock choices to spacific models. what problem matche ups is legion likely to see in other factions at this bracket. its been some times since i have just posted something with out writing an article so im hoping i can get some invlovement and maybe i can write an article about this in the future.

[PtotheRice]

I don't know much about bad matchups or have a TON of experience, but I've successfully played Bethayne at 25 points quite a few times.

Bethayne +3
-Belphagore 0
-Angelius 9
-Succubus 2

Hex Hunters full 8
-Bayal 3
Sorc and Hellion 3 (tier)
Spawning Vessel full 3 OR Spell Martyrs x3 for 3 (Or a sweet combination of min spawning vessel and a spell martyr or something, however at 25 pts I feel Belphagore is enough of an arc node.)


The few games I played at 25 didn't have enough to answer Ashen Veiled Hex Hunters, and the Angel packs a massive punch to the few big targets you'll see. Plus the Angel can demolish units with Carnivore on it and overtake with 4 fury.

[OldOneEye]

Even without practical experience I'd have to think Thagrosh1 would be good at this level. It's the feat-- basically getting another free heavy in such a small game creates bad matchup problems.

I have played Absylonia several times at 25 and she's solid. That point level limits your opponent's options quite a bit, which means Blight Field becomes a hard counter to the one or two heavies they're likely to have. She then makes her beasts that much better and tips the scales. Lylyth1 has done well for me in smaller games, too-- she can pick apart smaller armies before the game gets out of hand, or she and her army can go for the assassination since there's likely not as many roadblocks in the way.

[Fernslayer]

E Thagrosh

2 Spell Marters
2 Foresaken


Scythean
Angelius
Shredder X2

25 pts of Fear!


edit -I Personally HATE 25 pt games. I find that point cost to be one of the harder costs to play.

[Northern Ronin]

25 Point games Exist? I'm still doubtful about whether or not these rumors of 35 point games are true or not, despite the rumors from trusted sources.

In more seriousness, Thagrosh 1 for his feat (playing a 35 Point game in a 25 point game is pretty busted, or the Goreshade take on low point games) is really rough, and he adds an added punch himself with a good power and robust statline, and denying reeving with Eruption of Ash or Bad Blood can be very impactive at that level, fewer ways around Deathshroud, since those nice damage boosters are more exposed or forced to be cut for points.

Vayl 2 for purification, caster and their personal powers, spells and the like get more important the lower you go, and the ability to deny that power matters more, and there will be fewer ways to deal with Admoinition other than Eyriss.

Though I don't have really any competitive experience in the lower point games, since I pretty much only play them with whacky lists with no regard to winning against players who are still getting a grip on the game, and don't want to be overwhelmed by too much at once, or just don't own enough yet. As a point level, I do feel it fits well with Mangled Metal formats. I did do a pair of 20 Point Softcore lists for Mayhem. The first was Abby, Raek, Angel something or another filler (Scythean?) which did well, and the other being P-Thagrosh, Carni, Raek, Angel, which would have taken me to finals had I not timed out 15 seconds too soon on Dice down (stopping a Raek from getting in contestion against a brutal harby infantry + Martyr list). I don't think it would have beat out for 1st though, since the other finalist was Denny as I recall.

[rodders]

ethags and 14 shredders.

Absylonia works at 25 points and it can still be tier 4 if that floats your boat. Otherwise pthags or even pLylith as she's efficient at low points

[Lord Xalys]

What, no eLylyth with two Ravagores (15pts) and some assorted goodies to boot?

LX

[Defenstrator]

Our current league is 25 point games. We wanted a break from the typical 50 point tournament grind that we played for months before Lock and Load. They make for knife fight where all the pieces count. Assassination is a solid option at this level because there is less depth of army to hide behind. Our current leader has been playing pLylyth and p Vayl. I've been playing Bethayne and Rhyas and not doing so well.

[vegron]

In low point games, Rhyas can really shine. if she gets close enough to the caster, she can charge through models, weapon master and crit decapitation! take a couple scytheans and some blighted swordsmen and a shepherd and you're GOLDEN!!!

[rodders]

eLylith with 3 Ravagores is just nasty

[ShockwaveIIC]

In a multi-list format then a Thagrosh by 3 (Ie, one of each Scythean, Ravagore, Carnivean) could do well.

I also think that a Abyslonia list heavy on Infantry (For her) with a intent to use Blightfield very aggressively could also do well.

[PG_BloodRath]

Our current league is 25 point games. We wanted a break from the typical 50 point tournament grind that we played for months before Lock and Load. They make for knife fight where all the pieces count. Assassination is a solid option at this level because there is less depth of army to hide behind. Our current leader has been playing pLylyth and p Vayl. I've been playing Bethayne and Rhyas and not doing so well.

both of thsoe warlocks are very solid at 25 pts. i also like beth at 25pts i think she can clear the table on feat turn make for good assassinations via gallows and she can be immune to a ton of things that the opponet can bring at 25 pts. having a warlock that can be arm 20 or def 16+ variables is really good immunity to...everyt thing and eyeless sight arching from insde belf. ect bring hex hunters and you have a power house unit with stealth, pathfinder, and magic attacks to overcome those inevitable incorpreal models people like to bring at low points like skorn or cryx. i also agree 25pts is a nice break from the super competive 50pts and collosal craze.

In low point games, Rhyas can really shine. if she gets close enough to the caster, she can charge through models, weapon master and crit decapitation! take a couple scytheans and some blighted swordsmen and a shepherd and you're GOLDEN!!!

every thing you are about to read is nerd rage and most likey going to offend many of my readers.
*BEGIN RANT*i strongly dislike rhyas. i may try her again in the future if some more releases make her seem more promising but shes just not my style. i have 2 unpainted models that arent even on my painting table. the scather crew and rhyas. i think the only thing to make me want to play her will be her epic lately so many threads have deraild into rhyas talk (not that hasent been happening constanly since mk2.) but every time i see her name i just skip on. i love the model. i love the charter in the fluff but i cant stand to even look at her card. its some where with the model so i dont have to look at it. i dont question PP's choices becuase they make the game that i bleed but what can i say? MEH there are 10 other warlocks i really enjoy so i can flame one. *END RANT* ...BEGIN BACKLASH lol

In a multi-list format then a Thagrosh by 3 (Ie, one of each Scythean, Ravagore, Carnivean) could do well.

I also think that a Abyslonia list heavy on Infantry (For her) with a intent to use Blightfield very aggressively could also do well.

i agree compleatly. i won a 25 pt leauge with abby and p thags last christmas

[PG_BloodRath]

im going to do a quick grading of the locks 1-10 on how i feel they do in the 25 pt bracket and maybe add some notes

absylonia 9
her teir is fantastic at low points and all of the advanced move and advance deploy is really good. very few lists have an answer other than eryiss and purification casters. this makes the super duper high def angel and the super duper high arm carnivean really rough to deal with, its also less likely that the opponet can focus fire on one heavy in this point bracket making her feat much more promising.

bethayne. 8
see previous post

kallus 9
his feat is very potent at 25 points it can be a real pain to grind through a unit on feat turn. he can bring seroius CC with eruption and can be seriously hard to assinate at this point bracket. i played the following this past weekend against stryker2 (as a break from the 50 pt games i played it was a nice change of pace) i won by sceaniro in incursion very quickly

kallus +5
scythean 9
reak 4
shredder 2
succubus 2

leggionrs 6
UA 3
gobbers 1
shepard 1
spell martyr x 2 2pts

Lylyth1: 7
this is probably her best point bracket. her feat can make for a super hard push turn that can possibly wipe the table. there are a ton of good tricks for her with a small battle group. bringing typhon at this point bracket can make for an awesome assassination run.

lylyth2: 10
the lower the points the harder it is to hide from her assassination and the more her attrition style feat can devistate. carpet bomb the feild for 2-3 turns can be nuts at 25 pts.

rhyas:0 ...dont get me started again. *wipes swet from forhead after last nerd rage*

saeryn 9
you cant make melee attacks against my battle group...-_- at 25 pts the few guns that the opponet has should most likely be engaged and ther arnet many places to hide from the no free strike assassination run. blight bringer can wipe away the one unit they may have. just be sure to keep her safe.

Thags1: 10
another warlock who just brings a major unfair advantage in low points. every one elese is playing 25 pts and you are esentially bringing 35-37 pts to the table. just be sure to be well protected on the turn you plan to bring your beast back.

thags 2: 6
its hard to hide from a school of land sharks at 35 & 50 pts at 25 you can bring a small swarm and a heavy or just a big school of land sharks and watch the other player squirm in their seat. letting them go first helps becuase if your lucky they will be in threat range on turn 1 if you opponet knows better going first can still help

Vayl1: 7
when is she not good? this is kinda a nerfed point bracket for her becuase its likely there arent many models to catch in her feat after the alpha strike. but often at 25 pts its not even needed shes just that good.

vayl2: 9
shes packing so many good spells that get even better as the the points drop (not that their not always amazing) admonition refuge and purification can be a night mare at 25 pts